TX - Uvalde; Robb Elementary, 19 children and 3 adults killed, shooter dead, 24 MAY 2022 #2

[Friday Fan]

Is it just me or this is one of the most confusing investigations ever?

So far we have heard the following explanations for poor response.


The Uvalde CISD police chief:
1. Did not receive radio relay, dispatch etc. due to some type of interagency policy
2. Physically did not have has radio with him
3. Had poor radio reception in the building
So now all first responders had poor radio reception, with the exception of Border Patrol...(OK???)

Which one is it??


The poor radio reception within the building on that day has not proven and this is an opinion written by someone who designed the system. He might be trying to "explain something"

Mr. Anderson, who was serving as homeland security director for nine counties in South Texas at the time the system was installed, said state investigators have tested the radio system inside the building in the last few days, but he didn’t know the outcome of that test. An official from the Texas Department of Public Safety, which is leading the state investigation, didn’t respond to a request for comment about the results of the test.

As with everything else, we really don't know the story here.
The same system services the cities of Del Rio and Eagle Pass.

I'm pretty sure the Uvalde CISD police have successfully interacted via radio with dispatch in buildings such as the high school at one time or another. Often these are minor incidents which do not make headlines. Additionally Uvalde police also use the same low frequency radio system, so are they hampered if they use their radios in the hospital, the jail, the local Walmart etc?

Uvalde, Texas school shooting response hampered by poor police radio communications: official

The cops who waited inside a Texas school while a mass shooter was barricaded in a classroom could only receive sporadic and unreliable radio communications.

www.foxnews.com

https://www.dps.texas.gov/sites/default/files/documents/lawenforcementsupport/documents/fullrpt.pdf

 

[Wise Old Owl]

Uvalde school board declines to punish police chief who failed to confront Robb Elementary gunman​

Uvalde school board declines to punish police chief who failed to confront Robb Elementary gunman

Members of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District (UCISD) board took no action against school police chief Pete Arredondo following May's mass shooting.

www.foxnews.com

"At the first meeting of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District (UCISD) board since the deadly mass shooting, members took no action against school police chief Pete Arredondo.
Although the agenda allowed the board to terminate Arredondo, in a part of a meeting that was behind closed doors, they declined to do so, according to The Texas Tribune. "



I
HAVE
NO
WORDS!!!!

but I can see the writing on the wall and definitely read between the lines..................


I'm just furious after reading this.


JMHO

 

[Charlot123]

I don’t know the details, but remember that in all, basically, all, active shooter situations, it is initially unclear to the police whether there is one shooter, or several. So I assume it is hard to make decisions - they don’t know what we know post factum, and don’t have the diagrams.

(Not a school shooter situation, but Las Vegas shooter - it was live, almost, I happened to see it on my social media, and I was sure there were several shooters. In hindsight, I understand why I made the mistake, but the LE on the field saw and heard even less, I think - or more, but were confused).

If the school district did not terminate Arredondo, perhaps, they know better.

 

[tayaway]

A 20 year old radio system with known deficiencies such as dead spots in buildings? You can have all the police you want but if nobody can communicate properly that's a big problem.

The chief apparently, according to multiple MSM outlets, thought it was only a hostage situation, yet people at the scene could clearly hear the gunshots. 911 dispatch knew it was an ongoing shooter situation. The incident commander is supposed to be onsite, giving the commands. Clearly, the person who was supposed to be in charge could hear the shots being fired - no radio system is needed [eta to know it's an active shooting]. If the chief was making decisions offsite, that's a deadly problem. Even the civvies present knew what to do. LE communication breakdown is going to give that chief a pass? [eta: radio not working? Then how did LE on inside know not to engage shooter? It doesn't make sense, unless they shouted commands, but then, why were kids still calling 911, they'd know cops were already there?]

 

[Dotta]

"A quirk in Texas Law"

Law may allow Texas school shooting 911 calls, bodycam videos to be withheld

Dubbed the “dead suspect loophole,” the law allows police agencies to never release 911 records or body cam footage from the Uvalde school shooting, according to a local investigative r…

nypost.com

 

[ilovewings]

"A quirk in Texas Law"

Law may allow Texas school shooting 911 calls, bodycam videos to be withheld

Dubbed the “dead suspect loophole,” the law allows police agencies to never release 911 records or body cam footage from the Uvalde school shooting, according to a local investigative r…

nypost.com

I would hope the Department of Justice will be able to get Videos and any and all
Documents necessary for them to fully evaluate the circumstances involved in this
Shooting

 

[Seattle1]

First Man To See Uvalde Gunman Speaks Out​

6/5/22

 

[Arkay]

The chief apparently, according to multiple MSM outlets, thought it was only a hostage situation, yet people at the scene could clearly hear the gunshots. 911 dispatch knew it was an ongoing shooter situation. The incident commander is supposed to be onsite, giving the commands. Clearly, the person who was supposed to be in charge could hear the shots being fired - no radio system is needed [eta to know it's an active shooting]. If the chief was making decisions offsite, that's a deadly problem. Even the civvies present knew what to do. LE communication breakdown is going to give that chief a pass? [eta: radio not working? Then how did LE on inside know not to engage shooter? It doesn't make sense, unless they shouted commands, but then, why were kids still calling 911, they'd know cops were already there?]

Good questions, IMO, and the fact that the chief did not even BRING his radio rendered him quite alarmingly unprepared.

However, it may be that the police who DID hear orders not to breach the classroom were on a different radio frequency than the police outside.

I don't know; however, radio miscommunication, different frequencies, and communication breakdowns were a large part of why so many people, including police and firemen, died at the World Trade Center on September 11, 2001.

I will venture to say the the NYC fire and police departments are some of the most experienced and well-trained in the world, but they couldn't hear orders to evacuate, even with the radio repeaters that were installed after the first WTC attack that killed six people.

The article below explains it if anyone is interested.

Two of my acquaintances died in the South Tower because after the North Tower was attacked, the Public Announcement system told them to stay inside, and communication from police and fire to evacuate was not received. I know this because one called her mother and one called his wife to say they were being told to go back upstairs.

These two tragedies are not comparable, though, IMO because as experienced as our NYPD and NYFD are, this was something that couldn't have been trained for at the time. Whereas in Uvalve as elsewhere in the U.S., (deplorably) all the schools and LE must be trained for this.

This was not the first ever school shooting. Even a rookie should have known to bring a radio. Isn't it clipped onto their belts?

I still maintain that SR is THE reason for the tragedy, just like bin Laden was the reason for 9/11, but fumbled communication made everything much worse in both attacks.

Jmo

Communication Breakdown On 9/11

Panel Cites Flaws In Rescue Communications At World Trade Center

www.cbsnews.com

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I don't think it was because they were all afraid (some maybe) but the School's Chief of Police Pete Arredondo ordered them to STAND DOWN.
Which was a bad decision. He also did NOT have a Police Radio/scanner and I would love to know why? Why was he using a cellphone to conduct official police business sp an Active Shooter?
The real question is why did he make that decision so quickly and refuse to back down? Border Control disobeyed and went in regardless.

Lack of experience? Did his ego prevent him from listening to advice from UPD? Still a mystery.

No Radio, Old Tactics: How the Police Response in Uvalde Broke Down (Published 2022)

The commander at the scene arrived without a police radio, and decided in the first minutes on an approach that would delay a confrontation.

www.nytimes.com

Uvalde locals grapple with the school police chief's role

Uvalde residents struggle to reconcile what they know of the well-liked lawman, Pete Arredondo.

www.npr.org

BBM
Which leads to the question - was he even in uniform? Seriously, what on-duty police chief doesn't have all his equipment on him? Was he perhaps too busy attending to his other job, city council member? LOTS of questions on Arredondo ...
JMO

 

[Friday Fan]

Hubs is retired school principal. He said school police always had their radios on them.

 

[Erutan]

Still so many questions !!
Everything is very unclear and in my opinion there was a massive amount of error.
Mistakes happen, but parts of the chain of events surrounding this mass murder seems to be sheer negligence.
My .02.

The families need to keep pressing for answers, it won't bring their little ones and the teachers back , but they deserve to know what happened to cause this delay ?
Who gave the order for LE to not breach the classroom ?
Etc.

If the families are increasingly angry, who can blame them ?
Lives which were lost might have been saved that day; that is going to cause added anguish for those who lost loved ones. A pain that could last for years.

 

[WingsOverTX]

The most fortunate of the victims at Robb Elementary are recovering. Fourth-grade teacher Arnulfo Reyes, who was hospitalized with gunshot wounds, posted a public message on social media last week thanking friends for their prayers and love.

“I have long journey ahead, but I know I’ll get through it. My thoughts and prayers are with the families who continue to grieve their loved ones,” said Reyes, who runs a small plant and gift store when not teaching.

Others are coping with a mix of emotions. After a school board meeting on Friday night, Angela Turner, the aunt of shooting victim Maranda Mathis, shook with anger as talked about the effect the shooting has had on her family.

“I have a fourth-grader that was in the room next door that’s terrified. My niece died. I have a 6-year-old that just told me, ‘I don’t want to go to school. Why, to be shot?’ I have one going into junior high. I have a third grader,” Turner said. “We want answers to where the security is going to take place. This was all a joke. I’m so disappointed in our school district.”

Pastor shot at by Uvalde gunman recounts terror in sermon

UVALDE, Texas (AP) — Gilbert Limones and a coworker at a funeral home were among the first people shot at by the gunman who killed 19 children and two teachers at a Texas elementary school.

apnews.com

 

[lda216]

Uvalde school board declines to punish police chief who failed to confront Robb Elementary gunman​

Uvalde school board declines to punish police chief who failed to confront Robb Elementary gunman

Members of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District (UCISD) board took no action against school police chief Pete Arredondo following May's mass shooting.

www.foxnews.com

"At the first meeting of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District (UCISD) board since the deadly mass shooting, members took no action against school police chief Pete Arredondo.
Although the agenda allowed the board to terminate Arredondo, in a part of a meeting that was behind closed doors, they declined to do so, according to The Texas Tribune. "



I
HAVE
NO
WORDS!!!!

but I can see the writing on the wall and definitely read between the lines..................


I'm just furious after reading this.


JMHO

It’s likely that the city’s lawyer advised against firing him before the investigation is complete - otherwise it could open the district up to even more lawsuits. I suspect it could be spun as admitting fault or guilt if they fired him now.

 

[steeltowngirl]

First Man To See Uvalde Gunman Speaks Out​

6/5/22

At :54 he says his wife brought him a gun, but police stopped him from going in after the shooter. Yet there is talk of arming school staff, and in some states - including Texas - it is allowed. So, is the lunch lady allowed to go after an active shooter, but a private citizen is not allowed?

 

[Wise Old Owl]

The tension and the atmosphere in this town right now has got to be excruciating...................
They are in my prayers every night.

 

[Wise Old Owl]

It’s likely that the city’s lawyer advised against firing him before the investigation is complete - otherwise it could open the district up to even more lawsuits. I suspect it could be spun as admitting fault or guilt if they fired him now.

Of course that is what it is. IMO - they were "advised" to do nothing until the DOJ comes back. Period. Full stop. If they had even just given him a written reprimand - it would be construed as an admission of "neglect of duty" and since he was their employee - well.............admission of wrong doing.

However, IF this school board had decided 2 years ago to NOT fund a school police department - 4 officers, 1 detective and 1 chief (kinda expensive) then this whole conversation would not be happening as then the Local PD, County Sheriff, and even the Texas Rangers would have been in command - whoever was first on scene.They decided to put themselves here.

I don't know many, if any, small school districts that have their own police department. Big urban areas, yes. But they only have 8 schools - total. Yet, they didn't even fund enough officers to be able to put 1 officer at each school.

Seems all that money spent on officers could have been spent upgrading the actual facilities (both buildings and grounds) to make everyone feel safer.

And what happened to the School Board working with/contracting out the school officers with either the local PD or the sheriff's office? A lot of the districts I've worked in do it this way - they kinda split the bill on the officers for the schools.

But all this is JMHO.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Uvalde school board declines to punish police chief who failed to confront Robb Elementary gunman​

Uvalde school board declines to punish police chief who failed to confront Robb Elementary gunman

Members of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District (UCISD) board took no action against school police chief Pete Arredondo following May's mass shooting.

www.foxnews.com

"At the first meeting of the Uvalde Consolidated Independent School District (UCISD) board since the deadly mass shooting, members took no action against school police chief Pete Arredondo.
Although the agenda allowed the board to terminate Arredondo, in a part of a meeting that was behind closed doors, they declined to do so, according to The Texas Tribune. "



I
HAVE
NO
WORDS!!!!

but I can see the writing on the wall and definitely read between the lines..................


I'm just furious after reading this.


JMHO

Not even an internal UCISD investigation of Arredondo?!!! Something's rotten in Denmark. At first blush, sounds like the tried-and-true good ol' boys network in action. I'd be thrilled to be wrong - let's see what the TX investigation and DOJ review bring forth ...
JMO

 

[Sundog]

At :54 he says his wife brought him a gun, but police stopped him from going in after the shooter. Yet there is talk of arming school staff, and in some states - including Texas - it is allowed. So, is the lunch lady allowed to go after an active shooter, but a private citizen is not allowed?

I think a lunchtime employee would be allowed to go after an active shooter if s/he was in the building at the time of the active shooter incident, but not if she was outside of the school building, like the funeral parlor employee who was outside of the school but wanted to go in.
That seems to be the difference.

 

[HMSHood]

The tension and the atmosphere in this town right now has got to be excruciating...................
They are in my prayers every night.

I can imagine so. Excruciating is a major understatement.

 

[Seattle1]

I was listening to NPR News this afternoon while driving and heard that a 911 dispatcher that took a call from the Buffalo grocery store shooting, a few weeks ago, was terminated for mishandling the call. The operator allegedly hung up on the caller because she was whispering while hiding from the gunman behind a counter. It was something like this:

“‘What? I can’t hear you,’” the dispatcher responded. “’Why are you whispering? You don’t have to whisper, they can’t hear you.’”

I hope we don't have anything like this surface from the Uvalde school shooting! Anymore, nothing will surprise me.

Also, this 911 dispatcher had been on paid administrative leave since the shooting incident, until the investigation concluded on May 30, and was just terminated. IMO, I think this is the same protocol the school board will follow. We shouldn't expect the premature termination of the district police chief. MOO

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2022/06/04/buffalo-shooting-911-dispatcher-fired-ayers/