GUILTY TX - Zoe Hastings, 18, abducted & murdered, Dallas, 11 Oct 2015

[Cardinal47]

Respectfully snipped quoted post for relevance



That simply is not true. Let's stick to the facts as the witness, Lester Clark, told LEO and the news reporter rather than spreading any falsehoods.

"Sitting in his car, with the door open. What happens next begins a chain of events that Lester plays back time and time again he told me. Hastings returned her movie, turned around and began walking back to her van. As she sits, that man in the gray car, now identified as Antonio Cochran, steps out, and urgently walks to the driver’s door of Zoe’s van. He didn’t run, but he was going fast enough that Lester found that odd. It caught his attention. Didn’t seem right. His radar is up. Then, as Zoe’s door was nearly closed, Cochran stuffed his hand in, and pulled the door back open. Clark says the moment now has his full attention."

http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/10/30/key-witness-in-slain-teens-investigation-recalls-abduction/

The video at the link of the witness is powerful when LC demonstrates with his fist how the alleged murderer stuck his own fist through the barely open door to prevent Zoe from closing it. The witness says: "He shoves his hand in...snatches the door open." This happens while Zoe is sitting in the driver's seat of her vehicle.

So then do you believe the witness was waiting for a sign from Zoe that she was in trouble and needed help and when that didn't happen he thought they knew each other?

Should the witness have gone over and checked it out?

Just wondering what your thoughts are. What should have happened to save the girl?

It always seems to me that things happen in a split second and looking back we would have, could have done all kinds of things. But given the moment we react to the best of our knowledge of the situation.

Monday Morning Quarterbacking comes to mind.

 

[CocoChanel]

It is nearly too much to contemplate 'what if' because there is no going back.
If considering these facts and circumstances is excruciatingly painful for us here, I pray that Zoe's family and friends have the depth of emotional spiritual medical support that would make it possible for them to take one more breath, wake one more day, in the midst of a nightmare few can imagine.

And maybe this will bring us hope so that there is no 'next one'. At the very least, it is action we can take in the face of such hopeless/helplessness.

http://http://helpsavethenextgirl.com

 

[naomi44]

Should the witness have gone over and checked it out?

Just wondering what your thoughts are. What should have happened to save the girl?

It always seems to me that things happen in a split second and looking back we would have, could have done all kinds of things. But given the moment we react to the best of our knowledge of the situation.

Monday Morning Quarterbacking comes to mind.

Again I am very gratful to Lester Clark for coming forward. He is a father of 5 and not a very large guy (it seems). So faced with AC's apparent "confidence' he had to wonder, consciously or not, where indeed it came from. Perhaps it was not a crime, or perhaps he had a "serious " weapon, plus AC appears to be quite a bit stronger than Lester physically.

Considering the statistics about the violence between black men, I think Lester's top duty was to go home to his kids that night.
So he did not call the cops: note that he does not even mention regretting that fact during the interview. Calling the cops is my first thought in a case like that....but Lester did not grow up like I did, does not live where I do...etc...etc... the list is long.

 

[naomi44]

Sonya said

From what we have read so far it sounds like he may have targeted her specifically, he sat in his car and then went over to her and stopped her from getting back in her vehicle. If that is the case he could have seen her on the web app and figured out where she lived and followed her to the Walgreen's. It is certainly within the realm of possibility.

Yes indeed there is an error in her post Dedee: AC did not stop her from getting back in her car but rather kept her from closiing the door as she was already sitting therer, according to LC. But Sonya's FOCUS in the post was not that fact, the focus of the post, as I understand it, was to point out that she thought AC's action was premeditated and planned in large part (hence accounting for his "confidence") and that perhaps he became aware of Zoe's presence in the area thru social media. I actually missed the door discrepancy as I was focused on what I think was her main point.


What LC's interview did not mention is the TIMELINE: when did Zoe's car pull in the parking lot, and when did the silver car arrive?

 

[ninij9]

I wish Zoe would have SCREAMED and hit him, and caused a scene. Why did AC have
so much confidence?

I have told my daughter this since she's 5 and its burned into her brain: "Never mind the gun or knife, always scream, kick, run. Fight. Once they get you away you are done for". Also as polite society we ignore our basic instincts when we get a " bad" feeling about someone. We wont cross the street to avoid a shady character less we insult someone, etc. This witness knew something was off, but ignored his instinct (not blaming him at all). Predators count on our politeness, they really do.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[DeDee]

So then do you believe the witness was waiting for a sign from Zoe that she was in trouble and needed help and when that didn't happen he thought they knew each other?

Should the witness have gone over and checked it out?

Just wondering what your thoughts are. What should have happened to save the girl?

It always seems to me that things happen in a split second and looking back we would have, could have done all kinds of things. But given the moment we react to the best of our knowledge of the situation.

Monday Morning Quarterbacking comes to mind.

So then do you believe the witness was waiting for a sign from Zoe that she was in trouble and needed help and when that didn't happen he thought they knew each other?

I cannot read the witnesses mind. The witness indicated there was "too much movement" when AC entered the vehicle. The witness, LC, did not hear a scream.

Should the witness have gone over and checked it out?

I cannot judge his reaction nor his lack of action. He lives a different lifestyle than I do. LC works at a tattoo parlor and I've never stepped foot inside of one. He fathered five children. I have only one child who is well-educated and married to a professional. I assume LC was unarmed while I carry a .38 inside my vehicle.

Just wondering what your thoughts are. What should have happened to save the girl?

IMHO, it is impracticable and unfair to place heroic expectations upon the witness such as doing something/anything that may have saved Zoe from the fatal outcome.

Monday Morning Quarterbacking comes to mind.

It’s easy to Monday morning quarterback things in life, and easy for us to ask why didn’t you get involved once all the facts are known.
~ Doug Dunbar
http://dfw.cbslocal.com/2015/10/30/key-witness-in-slain-teens-investigation-recalls-abduction/

 

[Cardinal47]

Again I am very gratful to Lester Clark for coming forward. He is a father of 5 and not a very large guy (it seems). So faced with AC's apparent "confidence' he had to wonder, consciously or not, where indeed it came from. Perhaps it was not a crime, or perhaps he had a "serious " weapon, plus AC appears to be quite a bit stronger than Lester physically.

Considering the statistics about the violence between black men, I think Lester's top duty was to go home to his kids that night.
So he did not call the cops: note that he does not even mention regretting that fact during the interview. Calling the cops is my first thought in a case like that....but Lester did not grow up like I did, does not live where I do...etc...etc... the list is long.

After watching the interview a couple of times I believe the witness Lester Clark believed they were a couple and he did not wish to interfere in their personal business.

I think when Zoe moved over without a struggle that was what decided it for him.

He could not know that she was being threatened and scared to death.

 

[naomi44]

For anyone approaching the vehicle and making a difference it would have had to be BEFORE he got in the car. But because she did not scream most people would have had a doubt and would have stayed there doing exactly what LC did: watchiing and wondering.


Once AC is sitting inside the car frankly I do not see things getting much better with LC approaching. Let us consider : AC now sees him coming closer, he is probably not coming out of the car because then Zoe starts screaming, other people become alarmed and that makes AC's retreat to his car and drving off rather difficult and of course they have his car plate number (asuming it is not a stolen car).
So there is a good chance AC seing someone coming close just accelerates getting out the parking lot, knocking Zoe out right there if he has too. The chances that Zoe starts screaming because LC is close to the car are slim. Plus as someone said above may be AC told her already that LC and his friend were "with him".
As LC is getting closer he still does not know what to think. He probably has to back off to avoid the car, remember it only took a second or 2 after AC was inside the car.


Once he was inside the car there was no more reaction time. Before he was inside the car there was too much doubt.


The only thing one could have done is call 911, have them pull the car over, just in case.


Clearly, AC must have noticed these 2 guys standing close enough to see any action and not absorbed into any task, hence there was a good chance they would notice him. But perhaps he knew there would be enough doubt and hesitation, and no reaction time. He also assumed they would not call 911 just because of a doubt in something they saw. And he was right.

 

[Sonya610]

So he did not call the cops: note that he does not even mention regretting that fact during the interview. Calling the cops is my first thought in a case like that....but Lester did not grow up like I did, does not live where I do...etc...etc... the list is long.

Personally I believe he may have thought they were "new friends" and LC may have just gotten lucky. Yes that seems a bit bizarre to us but people have different lifestyles.

When I read the crime news articles for a city nearby I am often amazed at the "backstory" for alleged rapes and other strange events, very often the victim met a complete stranger at a gas station or walking down a sidewalk and then gave the person a ride or decided to socialize/party with them. Then after hanging out for hours, or a couple of days, an assault/robbery/rape occurs.

Once he was inside the car there was no more reaction time. Before he was inside the car there was too much doubt.

Keep in mind in a situation like this it isn't "all or nothing" reaction wise. An observer doesn't need to physically stop the potential assailant, just knowing someone saw what they did and looks alarmed enough to call 911 would likely cause a change in plans. If he knows the police will likely be notified, if he knows a witness will ID him that could easily cause him to run (or drive a short distance and run).

 

[AliVada]

Any whoever made the comment upstream about racial issues and he not wanting to call police, it is a hard thing with racial issues as they are.

I have friends that are a biracial couple also living in zip code 75218 & when they had a break in the husband called & because the house had so many pictures of she and the kids (he's often the photographer) they assumed he didn't belong there and cuffed him until wife got home from office.

So since that if they have had to call ....she goes home, so yes people of color are hesitant to call even when innocent.

He was clueless until he saw reporters & police the following day & immediately spoke about what he'd seen.

Just so very sad, he'll always wonder what if?

Kathy

 

[AliVada]

Another trick if any of us are ever in situation, try to toss keys away if being carjacked.... even a toss into the backseat would cause a delay. Even better if you can toss out of the car.

Just so hard to respond when in that feared, shock mode.

But worth a thought

Kathy

 

[Sonya610]

Another trick if any of us are ever in situation, try to toss keys away if being carjacked.... even a toss into the backseat would cause a delay. Even better if you can toss out of the car.

Just so hard to respond when in that feared, shock mode.

It is hard to respond if one never thought about the scenario.

Tossing the keys, screaming, slamming on the horn, shooting them in the face, or in this case throwing the passenger side door open when she was told to move over. I decided a while ago to keep it simple and just shoot anyone that tries to enter my vehicle (if I am inside).

All would have attracted attention. Paying attention to the people around you in parking lots also makes a huge difference.

 

[naomi44]

Sonya said:

Personally I believe he may have thought they were "new friends" and LC may have just gotten lucky. Yes that seems a bit bizarre to us but people have different lifestyles.

Sure it was a possibility. There are plenty of biracial couples and in all layers of society. But LC had a "bad impression" initially about how AC moved and how he got in the car. Basically the body language that caught his eyes, a lot of "agitation" (did I get that right?) that he saw happen in the car at first before Zoe moved over to the passenger seat. That is what I mean by saying he had a doubt. So why didn't he follow up on it? because they waived at him smiling coming out of the parking lot?

For me it would not have been the 'type of couple" that would have raised ANY question, it is what LC said he saw, the body language above. Plus for me it would have been the location. I descrived in my very first post here how this Walgreens and the location of this redbox looked like prime location for an ambush. Agressions-abductions at Walgreens are rather common. This Walgreens is in a questionable location, with people "hanging around the parking lot" there is nothing like that for miles around the place I live. Of course LC is not uncomfortable about the place, he hangs out there when on break meeting his buddy, it is convenient. So of course he has a wildly different perception of the place. He is not in a state of awareness to begin with.


But yet, he had a doubt and he did not see the need to be sure to be sure (not a typo). I mean what is the big deal if he turns out to be wrong? they get pulled over under some pretext and just drive away. Yes the driver is probably upset and on the surface it looks like one more DWB incident, and may be that is what LC was thinking about, consciously or not. I think that speaks more to the different relationship that people in this society have with law enforcement on a daily basis.

When I read the crime news articles for a city nearby I am often amazed at the "backstory" for alleged rapes and other strange events, very often the victim met a complete stranger at a gas station or walking down a sidewalk and then gave the person a ride or decided to socialize/party with them. Then after hanging out for hours, or a couple of days, an assault/robbery/rape occurs.

I know what you mean. I can immediately remember how I met this guy while we were both running after the same street car while on a weekend in New Orleans. That same evening I was sitting in his car going to diner with him (at least it was a convertible...but I did not know that when I decided to meet him) It turns out he was (likely still is) a wonderful person. I do remember though saying aloud while sitting on the passenger seat "I can't believe I am doing this, for all I actually know you could be Ted Bundy"

Keep in mind in a situation like this it isn't "all or nothing" reaction wise. An observer doesn't need to physically stop the potential assailant, just knowing someone saw what they did and looks alarmed enough to call 911 would likely cause a change in plans. If he knows the police will likely be notified, if he knows a witness will ID him that could easily cause him to run (or drive a short distance and run)

I agree.

 

[naomi44]

Sonya:

It is hard to respond if one never thought about the scenario.

That is why it is important not to just talk to your kids but REHEARSE scenarios physically. Kind of like prewiring their brain into reaction, and also that makes clearer what are the most effective defenses and what your own child's reactions patterns are. I am not saying staging an improvised attack with your kid not being aware of it, that would be a bit harsh..

 

[Sonya610]

I know what you mean. I can immediately remember how I met this guy while we were both running after the same street car while on a weekend in New Orleans. That same evening I was sitting in his car going to diner with him (at least it was a convertible...but I did not know that when I decided to meet him) It turns out he was (likely still is) a wonderful person. I do remember though saying aloud while sitting on the passenger seat "I can't believe I am doing this, for all I actually know you could be Ted Bundy"

LOL...well New Orleans is a bit different. The French Quarter is a tourist town, basically like a huge 24/7 nightclub. Folks go there to party and often make "fast new friends" for the weekend. In vacation spots often the rules are different because time is short and relationships are short too.

In contrast most of us live in environments where we will not be blatantly hit on at the gas station, or while walking through a store parking lot. In some areas that sort of behavior is normal, in others it would considered offensive/hostile.

 

[Cardinal47]

I think about Zoe now when I leave in the morning. Opening and closing the car door and locking it.

Something occurred to me the other day when I was grocery shopping. A young, pretty woman came up to me and asked if I would accept a picture of Jesus. I never had that happen before in a store.

It made me think of the kind of person Zoe must have been. She was just graduated from high school and going on her mission.

If I am not mistaken her father is very high in their church so I am sure they had religion in their home and life. I was taken by their gentle spirit and calm demeanor during such great loss of their daughter when they spoke.

So when you match up a street smart t h u g against a young religious girl. No contest.

She wasn't street smart and she wasn't wise to the world this t h u g came from. She was a gentle soul who died way too soon perhaps due to her innocence.

 

[Dogface]

Two weekends ago I drove past the Walgreens, and it gave me chills, it's such a busy area, it's unimaginable, even with the area being a little rough, that someone could be so brazen.

Then I saw a news story on tv with a guy who talked about witnessing it and wishing he would have done something because he thought it seemed off. I feel bad for him, he will have to carry that burden for rest of his life. I know I have let something that made me feel uneasy slide because there wasn't enough red flags to set me off, and I can imagine how guilty I would feel if one of those incidents ended like this.

 

[Julpal]

My husband has always been adverse to that intersection in particular as a Colombian who can apparently sniff out any place. So I asked him what he would've done if in the witnesses situation. He said he would never interfere since she scooched over and seemingly let him in. He explained that, in general, it would be the interferer who would be harmed if sticking their nose into a relationship (which is what he thinks it appeared as). He believes that under the circumstances, unfortunately especially with the racial issues, that the witness had no choice. Sure he could call police but honestly if the police are called over every tiff that appears the least bit off/abduction-y then they will soon be very overburdened. People often meet in parking lots.
Anyway, the thing on all our minds is really the motive! Why? Do people kill just to kill? Yes, but I just feel that's not the case here. And why did he pick her? Just because she was young and alone, or had he noticed her before? Just strange he waited so long...
if any case deserves the dp, this is it. I'm praying for her family. If it hurts me like this, I can't come close to feeling their pain. So many questions, so much loss.

 

[Sulamith]

I think about Zoe now when I leave in the morning. Opening and closing the car door and locking it.

Something occurred to me the other day when I was grocery shopping. A young, pretty woman came up to me and asked if I would accept a picture of Jesus. I never had that happen before in a store.

It made me think of the kind of person Zoe must have been. She was just graduated from high school and going on her mission.

If I am not mistaken her father is very high in their church so I am sure they had religion in their home and life. I was taken by their gentle spirit and calm demeanor during such great loss of their daughter when they spoke.

So when you match up a street smart t h u g against a young religious girl. No contest.

She wasn't street smart and she wasn't wise to the world this t h u g came from. She was a gentle soul who died way too soon perhaps due to her innocence.

I have no idea if Zoe was street smart or not. I do worry about LDS sister missionaries being sent all over the world to try to convert people to their faith. The LDS/Mormon church lowered the age for female missionaries from 21 years old to 19 years old! Some of them have no cars, just walk or ride bicycles. They knock on stranger's doors, approach people in parks, tract into "dangerous" neighborhoods. My niece is serving her mission in Michigan.

If what you say about Zoe not being street smart or wise to the world is true, then she had no business being on a mission. Too young. IMO. I would hope that the LDS/Mormon church would teach "Stranger Danger" to these Sisters and Elders, but I have not heard of that happening.

 

[Sonya610]

Anyway, the thing on all our minds is really the motive! Why? Do people kill just to kill? Yes, but I just feel that's not the case here. And why did he pick her? Just because she was young and alone, or had he noticed her before?

The location seems very odd to me too.

This guy was hunting young women and he had a car which meant he could go anywhere he wanted yet he ended up staking out a Walgreen's parking lot in a somewhat seedy area at a busy time of day? It was several miles from where he was staying so why on earth would he choose that location?

Why not a mall? Or an excercise studio? Or near a college? Or the large park/jogging trail 2 miles away? Or any number of other places that offer more privacy and are more likely to attract young female victims? The location just doesn't seem random to me, and if the location wasn't random then the victim wasn't random either.