GUILTY TX - Zuzu Verk, 22, Alpine, 12 Oct 2016 #3 *Arrests*

[Lilibet]

I've not followed this case from the beginning and have a question. What did they do with Zuzu's car? I read the warrants and don't see it addressed. Was it ever moved from Fabian's apartment?

IIRC It was found at ZuZu's. So one could assume RF or CE drove it there and left it. That's probably when he dog was let out on its leash, perhaps to give the impression that she was attacked while walking her dog late at night.
JMO

 

[Karinna]

Could drugs have been involved in this case? Maybe that's what the suspects/perps had on each other? It may or may not have involved ZuZu?

 

[jellybean96]

If CE were not there when she died, then he cannot be charged with murder. But he can be charged with other offenses and ultimately get the same amount of time. If he were there, he could likely be charged with murder. I'm not sure I'm seeing the elements that make this a death penalty crime? Did I miss something?
*The victim is a peace officer or fireman killed while on duty;
*The murder occurred while the defendant was committing (or attempting to commit) a kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, or arson;
*Murder “for hire” (both the hirer and the hired);
*The murder occurred during the course of an actual or attempted prison break;
*Multiple murders occurred as a result of the defendant’s acts; and
*The victim was younger than ten year old.
CE better realize his best option is to give it all up to LE and save his own hide. He could be charged with concealing a crime or failure to report, tampering with evidence etc. They could all be charged with conspiracy which can have stiff penalties. They could rack up enough charges and if convicted could make them serve consecutively for all crimes which could add up to many years. So although RF will likely be the only one charged with murder.. the others could serve just as much time for stacked lower offenses. And if the autopsy doesn't provide a cause of death... then it's up in the air as to what RF will be charged with.
Prayers for justice for Zuzu and peace for her loved ones. I thank God that she has finally been found and will be buried properly. Not knowing is unbearable


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I am only speaking for myself - but I am sure others feel the same - we want RF to get the death penalty. In reality, that is most likely not going to happen based on the information we have as of now. But we still want it....

Most likely, RF will get up to life in jail. Thats all.

We want him to be put under the jailhouse, but in reality he wont.

 

[stx722]

If CE were not there when she died, then he cannot be charged with murder. But he can be charged with other offenses and ultimately get the same amount of time. If he were there, he could likely be charged with murder. I'm not sure I'm seeing the elements that make this a death penalty crime? Did I miss something?
*The victim is a peace officer or fireman killed while on duty;
*The murder occurred while the defendant was committing (or attempting to commit) a kidnapping, burglary, robbery, aggravated sexual assault, or arson;
*Murder “for hire” (both the hirer and the hired);
*The murder occurred during the course of an actual or attempted prison break;
*Multiple murders occurred as a result of the defendant’s acts; and
*The victim was younger than ten year old.
CE better realize his best option is to give it all up to LE and save his own hide. He could be charged with concealing a crime or failure to report, tampering with evidence etc. They could all be charged with conspiracy which can have stiff penalties. They could rack up enough charges and if convicted could make them serve consecutively for all crimes which could add up to many years. So although RF will likely be the only one charged with murder.. the others could serve just as much time for stacked lower offenses. And if the autopsy doesn't provide a cause of death... then it's up in the air as to what RF will be charged with.
Prayers for justice for Zuzu and peace for her loved ones. I thank God that she has finally been found and will be buried properly. Not knowing is unbearable


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

BBM above - also includes "The defendant intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat;"

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-first-degree-murder-laws.html

One of the key parts of the capital murder statute is "intent." Did the accused intend to do the act, or not?
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV. I think they may be a long way off from
charging RF with capital in this case.

 

[al66pine]

In conversation, he has said that it was the bed shaking and not their usual bedroom noises. I'm guessing that was also part of his testimony - but left out of information provided to media/public.

Just going by memory here, so no link, sorry, but IIRC, the Alpine PD's S/W affidavit used the phrase "unique noises."
If S/W affidavit described as "unique noises," not clear to me who originally described as "unique noises."

Did downstairs neighbor use that exact phrase or did neighbor describe noises as relating to s-e-x, which Alpine LEO writing S/W sanitized/transmorgrified into "unique noises" in the bedroom? IDK.

May be hairsplitting here and may not make any diff, but depending on nature of noises, may impact timeline. As always, JM2cts, could be wrong.


___________________________________________________________________________
* "unique noises" phrase was repeated in our W/S timeline, IIRC. TYVM to Gardener1850, IIRC).

 

[kuriouser]

Just going by memory here, so no link, sorry, but IIRC, the Alpine PD's S/W affidavit used the phrase "unique noises."
If S/W affidavit described as "unique noises," not clear to me who originally described as "unique noises."

Did downstairs neighbor use that exact phrase or did neighbor describe noises as relating to s-e-x, which Alpine LEO writing S/W sanitized/transmorgrified into "unique noises" in the bedroom? IDK.

May be hairsplitting here and may not make any diff, but depending on nature of noises, may impact timeline. As always, JM2cts, could be wrong.


___________________________________________________________________________
* "unique noises was repeated in our W/S timeline, IIRC. TYVM to Gardener1850, IIRC).

In earlier news media interviews, the neighbor stated that he "heard the bed shake several times"
In the recent affidavit, it is described by officer as "he said he heard unique sounds coming from Robert's bed"
In off record conversation, neighbor said it was not their usual bed sounds.

 

[al66pine]

BBM above - also includes "The defendant intentionally commits the murder in the course of committing or attempting to commit obstruction or retaliation, or terroristic threat;"
http://statelaws.findlaw.com/texas-law/texas-first-degree-murder-laws.html
One of the key parts of the capital murder statute is "intent." Did the accused intend to do the act, or not?
I'm not a lawyer, and I don't play one on TV. I think they may be a long way off from charging RF with capital in this case.

Like you, I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on TV. Long way off from capital murder in this case? Possibly, but OTOH ---

The prosecutor rarely proves "Intent" to commit murder or other crime by nice, neat wrapped-in-a-bow evd, like defendant's written note saying "I'm going to kill Name-of-Victim" or an audio or vid playback of defendant's oral stmt to same effect, or printouts of def's soc media stmts. Typically the prosecutor puts on evd like def's buying plastic dropcloths before the death, and ___ and ___, then in closing argument relisting these factors, and saying these mulitple acts fit together like jigsaw puzzle pieces to cumulatively show "intent."

IIRC, these def's did not buy dropcloths for wrapping body before death, did not borrow truck (presumably to transport remains) before death, etc. But there may be five or ten other factors already known to LE, but unknown to gen pub, that tent to show intent to kill. For ex, maybe def's bought a giant plastic storage tub for her remains before her death, but found it did not accommodate the remains, so later bought plastic dropcloths. Maybe def tried to borrow truck & shovels before death, but pals refused. Etc. IDK. (Sorry for graphic thoughts). As always, JM2cts, could be wrong.

Maybe others recall some factors indicating def's "intent" or premeditation in this case. Anyone? Thx in adv.

 

[al66pine]

In earlier news media interviews, the neighbor stated that he "heard the bed shake several times"
In the recent affidavit, it is described by officer as "he said he heard unique sounds coming from Robert's bed"
In off record conversation, neighbor said it was not their usual bed sounds.

Thanks for ^ clarification and exact wording.

MSM report re "bed shake several times," bbm, is subject to diff interps, imo. Was that media euphemism for s-e-x? IDK.

Did neighbor's "not their usual bed sounds" off the record stmt, mean def made sounds in inflicting great bodily harm or death on the victim? IDK.

Or did neighbor hear sounds of def's flipping/rotating mattress as part of def's annual apt deep-cleaning? IDK.

Maybe some other explanations?

 

[jellybean96]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/02/0...nt-awry-before-texas-student-disappeared.html

Fox News picked up Zuzu's story.

 

[kuriouser]

Agreee. Nothing points to premeditated intent.
Based on evidence made public, we can only speculate cause of death.
Since they hadn't been able to arrest anyone until the body and the "key evidence" plastic dropcloths were found... Simply proving WHO killed her will be hard enough.


Depending on further evidence, prosecution might be able to build a capital punishment case for "criminal homicide with aggravating circumstance of aggravated sexual assault"


Personally, I feel the life without parole is a far greater punishment for a 26 year old who thought he could get away with this big oops.

 

[Karinna]

I'm sure LE are treating the apartment as a crime scene and will get lots of DNA evidence if poor ZuZu died there. And also if vehicles and implements that could of & were used in the crime will also have DNA & the plastic sheets. If her vehicle as the neighbour stated was normally gone by the morning, but all of a sudden was still there after she was nowhere to be found, that could also be incriminating to R.F. seeing it was his place of residence at the time. And i don't think RF & CE are arrested on a whim, and LE must have cause to arrest IMO.

 

[kuriouser]

I don't think RF told CE the real deal. I think CE got some misogynistic version to up the chances he'd help. "She didn't return my affection so I strangled her," doesn't really move my heartstrings.

Im leaning towards, 'she overdosed while I was at Dairy Queen'.

Had he raged out and killed her... why call a friend for advice afterward?
That's a solo fk-up and a solo cleanup.


She od'ed/killed herself....there's too many holes in that story already.
If he says she died while he was at DQ (3 or 4am)... why did he call CE at 3a?
And, if he had called to say she freaked out and od'ed or killed herself... CE would have said, "Call 911." Not, "yeah, that's gonna look suspicious, I'll help you bury her later." CE might be a sociopath/narcissist/idiot...but I'm giving him enough credit to not step in any avoidable shat (initial shat)..


The eagerness of CE to help RF (and how quickly RF called CE) spells a mutual interest/guilt at stake.
Hmm...how about drugs?
As in drug use, manufacturing, transportation and/or sales.
In this situation, Rohypinol or similar. Either RF got it from CE or RF supplied it to CE. And it most likely wasn't the first time.


RF was able to get his help by convincing CE he would be in big trouble for supplying the pills - or by instilling fear in him that he would be exposed for using roofies on girls.


I wouldn't be surprised if there is a big seedy back story of these two keeping score and comparing notes on the girls they've drugged. I don't know much about RF other than recent gossip. CE, on the other hand, has always raised my guard.

 

[Karinna]

That's what i said previously about some kind of drug involvement in all of this, & RF & CE being tight about that stuff. That they had the goods on each other in some way.
Maybe ZuZu knew about it, and perhaps she said something in anger toward RF, re the arguing that was heard between them and perhaps RF felt very threatened by that? So he killed her?

 

[jmt0189]

Didn't Zuzu write a text messsge to RF saying she was having back pain? If drugs were involved Maybe he gave her something for her back?

 

[kuriouser]

That's what i said previously about some kind of drug involvement in all of this, & RF & CE being tight about that stuff. That they had the goods on each other in some way.
Maybe ZuZu knew about it, and perhaps she said something in anger toward RF, re the arguing that was heard between them and perhaps RF felt very threatened by that? So he killed her?

Didn't Zuzu write a text messsge to RF saying she was having back pain? If drugs were involved Maybe he gave her something for her back?

He may have told her they were for her back... my suspicion is that he gave her something without her permission. As in rohypinol.

 

[Karinna]

He may have told her they were for her back... my suspicion is that he gave her something without her permission. As in rohypinol.

Well that is a possibility if she was having pain. In that case if he gave her something she reacted to, then it wasn't an intentional death, but an accidental one, and hiding and burying ZuZu's body would of been so that toxicology wouldn't have detected what was in her system that killed her upon an autopsy into her death.

 

[Dollcat]

In this interview, the mother says that she loved Zuzu, like a daughter.


But in the previous interview, the sister said, “We hardly knew her (Zuzu), from what we knew they had a good relationship.”


So, they hardly knew her...yet loved her like a daughter. :thinking:

Maybe like "Mommy Dearest"??

 

[skibaboo]

Crime Watch Daily to air Zuzu Verk Update

Crime Watch Daily will be airing an update on the Zuzu Verk case on CBS 7's sister station My TV 16 Thursday morning.

CBS 7 footage will be used in the special edition of Crime Watch Daily.

The update will air on My TV 16 starting at 11 a.m.

In December, Crime Watch Daily spoke with suspect Chris Estrada about the Zuzu Verk investigation.

 

[skibaboo]

Mother of Slain Texas College Student Says Arrested Boyfriend Was ‘Manipulative’ and ‘Vain’
Days after their daughter’s body was found in a shallow grave six miles from her West Texas home, the family of Zuzu Verk says they knew her relationship with her boyfriend was volatile — but that they didn’t expect it to end in death.

“Zuzu shared with me and many other people months ago that she knew she was not in love with Robert,” Lori says.

“She did try to break up with him several times but she continued to be talked back into the relationship,” Lori says, characterizing Fabian as “manipulative.”

From the moment they met, Lori didn’t approve of Fabian.

“I didn’t like him, I never liked him,” she says. “He was very arrogant, vain, very selfish [and] I didn’t like the way he treated my daughter.”

 

[Dollcat]

I'm sure LE are treating the apartment as a crime scene and will get lots of DNA evidence if poor ZuZu died there. And also if vehicles and implements that could of & were used in the crime will also have DNA & the plastic sheets. If her vehicle as the neighbour stated was normally gone by the morning, but all of a sudden was still there after she was nowhere to be found, that could also be incriminating to R.F. seeing it was his place of residence at the time. And i don't think RF & CE are arrested on a whim, and LE must have cause to arrest IMO.

Wonder why the mattress didn't show any fluids when LE checked out RF apt? They noted no sheets in apt but what was the condition of mattress? I wondered if he was taking her and the mattress down the stairs when neighbor heard loud noises? LE hasn't stated that I'm aware of anyway that the mattress was missing. Guess I'm thinking that he killed her in bed but could have been somwhere in apt...