TY says that Terri seemed "defensive."

[GrainneDhu]

This is a little O/T, but your post makes a good point that I wanted to add to. Indeed, why lie? We've heard that Terri is a CSI fan, so that would teach her, at the very least, the basics of criminal/homicide investigations. She holds a master's degree, so I think it's safe to say that she's at least somewhat smart. Those two pieces of info alone make it very hard to believe that she'd do something as dumb as lie to the cops about her whereabouts on June 4th when her bankcard records contradict what she's telling them!! I can see maybe not knowing about cell phone pings and how they have the ability to place a person at a particular place at a particular time, but bank card records? that's common sense.

I wonder exactly how it is her story is not matching up. There are several ways I can think of that could lead to discrepancies.

How specific was her version of what she did that day? Was it fairly specific or was it vague and full of "well, I think I went to XYZs but I don't really remember what I did there. At some point, I think I was up by ABCs, so I probably stopped there..."

I know from personal experience that sometimes trauma does weird things to my memory. One occasion that I am thinking of, I completely forgot what I did during the day before the traumatic event. That evening, I literally could remember nothing of what happened before the traumatic event, all I could assume was that I was in my usual and expected places doing my usual and expected stuff because no one told me any different. I never did recover the memories of what I did in the hours before the trauma.

DY apparently has the sort of memory that operates the opposite way: she says she can remember what she ate 4 June before Kyron went missing. As I have (obviously) not got that kind of memory, I imagine that not having it seems either abnormal or deceptive."

My memory in ordinary circumstances is quite good, quite detailed. I can give you many details about former clients I haven't seen in fifteen years. What they said, how they looked, how they moved, etc, during our consultation. Very specific stuff. But I've learned that trauma somehow upsets my usual abilities with memory.

 

[gliving]

So how does a person who is telling the truth get so many people convinced that she's lying? If the police were able to check her story and it all matched, would they let the family continue their allegations against an innocent person?

If the police have someone else in mind as a POI, it would tip their hand to have the family retract their allegations. It might just be what they are doing.

 

[GrainneDhu]

OK, for the sake of argument, let's say TH is innocent. And therefore suppose that TH was NOT defensive about Kyron's disappearance, but because of whatever it was she was doing that day that she didn't want to admit to her family and the police.

Now she realizes she's suspected of kidnap and perhaps murder, at least by her family, and her baby has been taken from her based upon this suspicion.

Why wouldn't she admit what she was really doing the day Kyron vanished? Could it be WORSE than kidnap and murder of your own stepchild? I don't think anything is worse than that. So if there WAS something she was doing that day other than abducting Kyron - something secret that she didn't want to share - why wouldn't she just confess whatever it was as it would at least clear her of suspicion of murder?

BBM

The Soviets and Chinese have proven that highly educated, intelligent people don't always make the right choices between outcomes.

Both countries have employed what is known as "swallow traps" or "honey pots" to ensnare foreign diplomats. The basic scenario is that a specially trained agent manages to get a foreign diplomat interested. The agents are usually women but there have been a few male agents as well. The agent initiates an affair with the diplomat that the diplomat has some reason to want to remain secret (usually due to marriage or, way back when, concealing homosexuality). When the diplomat is well and truly ensnared, the agent's handlers swoop in for the sting. They use the guilty secret of the affair to force the diplomat to reveal diplomatic secrets.

Now, which is worse? Admitting to your spouse that you had an affair or committing treason? Which consequence would be worse? A divorce or the death penalty for treason?

It would seem totally obvious that committing treason is worse. And yet there are many cases where the diplomat chose to commit treason. With great misgivings, with great regrets but they did it because they were so frightened, they were no longer making rational decisions.

 

[carbuff]

I guess what I'm trying to say is - if the rumors about her bank cards /cell pings are true, and she was not where she claimed to be, but it was for a reason other than abducting Kyron, then I'd be very surprised that she wasn't admitting to the lesser offense.

I don't feel like she's someone who would be stopped by the fear she'd be disbelieved.

Also, whatever she may have told the police, it wasn't enough to stop them from telling her husband that he would be wise to leave her and take the baby away.

She may well have done. I just don't see any evidence yet. Only IF and rumors, and other people's unverified statements that have no evidence either.

 

[mtnone]

Something about the fishing pole story bugs me. I can't put my finger on it.

I remember her saying he was practicing with it in the back yard in anticipation of using it soon.

Later she, or someone said he was so afraid of not being able to find his house that he wouldn't go into the back yard, only the front. IIRC


On topic.

I wonder why, as with the unclear (seemingly) alibi, why she wouldn't bother to at least fake not being bothered for awhile. If guilty, you would think she would expect to be investigated and be ready for that, at least at the beginning.

 

[Donjeta]

BBM

It would seem totally obvious that committing treason is worse. And yet there are many cases where the diplomat chose to commit treason. With great misgivings, with great regrets but they did it because they were so frightened, they were no longer making rational decisions.

Well, if the sexting incident taught us anything it is that TH cannot be expected to always make rational decisions without fail.

 

[sherbetjello]

Also, if I were innocent, I would proclaim that loudly and persistently to anyone who would listen.

I think she tried, in an "anti-social" sort of way. You know, the internet.
She was rung up through the rafters because of it.

Funny thing, we are all sitting on this thing now, the internet,.. coming up with the reasons how she did/didn't do what people claim she has.

For a medium that is considered the "wrong" way in communication, I see lots and lots of people here use it to communicate to people they have never met, about people they don't know.

Just outside looking in.

 

[wondering1]

snip

The ......... means words were left out. Were words left out that would explain the persecuted feelings? Yikes, Why can't the media just report what Tony actually said? :banghead:

That's not the way I read it. I read it as he started to say it one way, then paused [...] and finished the sentence in another way.

 

[carbuff]

That's not the way I read it. I read it as he started to say it one way, then paused [...] and finished the sentence in another way.

Either way, that tells us his opinion. It doesn't tell us what she thought or felt.

 

[eyes4crime]

I wonder exactly how it is her story is not matching up. There are several ways I can think of that could lead to discrepancies.

How specific was her version of what she did that day? Was it fairly specific or was it vague and full of "well, I think I went to XYZs but I don't really remember what I did there. At some point, I think I was up by ABCs, so I probably stopped there..."

I know from personal experience that sometimes trauma does weird things to my memory. One occasion that I am thinking of, I completely forgot what I did during the day before the traumatic event. That evening, I literally could remember nothing of what happened before the traumatic event, all I could assume was that I was in my usual and expected places doing my usual and expected stuff because no one told me any different. I never did recover the memories of what I did in the hours before the trauma.

DY apparently has the sort of memory that operates the opposite way: she says she can remember what she ate 4 June before Kyron went missing. As I have (obviously) not got that kind of memory, I imagine that not having it seems either abnormal or deceptive."

My memory in ordinary circumstances is quite good, quite detailed. I can give you many details about former clients I haven't seen in fifteen years. What they said, how they looked, how they moved, etc, during our consultation. Very specific stuff. But I've learned that trauma somehow upsets my usual abilities with memory.

Respectfully snipped from link at bottom...(Older interview-Desiree talking)
“She’s talking about her hair that she just got done, and they put highlights in, it turned out a little too orange,” Young recalled in a tape-recorded interview with WW Thursday evening. “I can’t get up every morning, put on my makeup or function even remotely normally, and she’s talking about going and getting her hair done.”

snip (Kaine talking)
“Every single day, we’d wake up, we’d gather up, and we’d just go and start doing stuff (to help find Kyron). And she was always just kind of behind,” says Kyron’s father Kaine Horman, who also sat for the WW interview. “It wasn’t about, ‘what can we do?’ It’s about, ‘what’s being done to me, or what about me?’ It was just kind of more centered around her.”snip

http://blogs.wweek.com/news/tag/desiree-young/

What do people think is going on with Terri? Denial is a powerful defense and can be at work here. Even a psychopath tries to mimic and take cues from those around to appear somewhat normal. Does Terri expect criticism because she has had plenty of it before? :waitasec: moo

If this is Terri's normal personality, why wasn't it noticed before? Maybe Terri is a 'dependent' personality type and counts on others for her lead. Is this a sign of depression? Detachment due to a traumatic event. So many possibilities! moo

 

[wondering1]

Either way, that tells us his opinion. It doesn't tell us what she thought or felt.

Of course it doesn't. Almost anything you say about someone else is an opinion, by your definition. Sometimes opinions are well-founded, sometimes not. That's where all of the other *opinions* come into play. When a significant number of people form exactly the same opinion, they are probably on to something. jmoo

 

[eyes4crime]

That's not the way I read it. I read it as he started to say it one way, then paused [...] and finished the sentence in another way.

Maybe the journalists here on WS could clarify - here is a definition I found:

The three dots are called an ellipsis, and they stand for words left out. At the end of a sentence, they indicate that the thought is not completed, often with the suggestion that the readers can supply the missing words for themselves.

 

[wondering1]

Maybe the journalists here on WS could clarify - here is a definition I found:

The three dots are called an ellipsis, and they stand for words left out. At the end of a sentence, they indicate that the thought is not completed, often with the suggestion that the readers can supply the missing words for themselves.

In first part of TY's sentence was unfinished, hence the ellipses. His initial thought was not completed. There's really no other good way to show it other than to write out [pause]. Which is the way it's sometimes done on a transcript of a videotape.

It seemed really obvious to me but, as always, I'm happy to stand corrected

 

[ami]

She [Terri] instantly started to express some displeasure with that and not wanting...feeling like she was persecuted. And I thought that was an unusual reaction that early in that," he said.

In this case I believe this is a direct quote of the speaker, who paused mid-sentence and then chose a different word to continue on with.

If the journalist wanted to truncate the sentence, they probably would have done something more like:

She [Terri] instantly started to express some displeasure with that and ...[felt] like she was persecuted. And I thought that was an unusual reaction that early in that," he said.

Or something like that.

 

[Kat010]

Maybe the journalists here on WS could clarify - here is a definition I found:

The three dots are called an ellipsis, and they stand for words left out. At the end of a sentence, they indicate that the thought is not completed, often with the suggestion that the readers can supply the missing words for themselves.

I'm not verified on this board, but I am a professional journalist (with other career adventures along the way!) and also a writing teacher now and then (college level).

No, an ellipsis is not a "fill in the blanks." It signifies an incomplete quote.

Here, let me give you an example. I'm old-school journalism, BTW, which means that everything in a quote is a direct accurate quote and not a rephrasing, which is signaled by an indirect quote. Here we go.

Under fire, the mayor declared "I don't care what it takes. I will prove that this budget does not benefit my relatives. I am so sick and tired of the media butting in. I'm sick of do-gooders. Just shut up, all of you. Really, all day, all night, my phone rings with stupid questions. I intend to have this budget vetted by outside accountants at my own expense."

OK, that whole quote doesn't get used. Instead, the reporter writes: (actually let me rewrite from my first "in the flow" work) The embattled Mayor Tacky, under fire from allegations that the proposed construction budget includes provisions to favor his family's firm, declared: "I don't care what it takes. I will prove that this budget does not benefit my relatives....I intend to have this budget vetted by outside accountants at my own expnse."

See the ellipsis, the three dots? That tells you that although the mayor's statement is a direct quote (it's in " marks) the reporter has omitted some of his statement.

Now, let's continue with our story in the hands of an ethical journalist: next graf reads

Although Tacky stated his intention for outside budget review, the Department of Justice has already started their review of alleged improprities in the use of public funds. DOJ spokesperson Stephen Dogood said "We have had these proposals under scrutiny for weeks."

Tacky, in a spontanteous rant about outside interference, showed that the stress of the ongoing battle is taking its effects, Vice-Mayor Susie Goodegg said.

"He's really jumpy and touchy, which is making City Council work a bit harder," she explained.

During the interview for this story, Tacky unleashed a rash of complaints about citizen and media interference, including this statement "....all day, all night, my phone rings..."

See the two sets of ellipsis? Tells you that there's material missing from before the quote and after the quote. That frequently happens if, say a speaker is profane, or the entire statement doesn't move the story forward.

HTH. (BTW, what does BBM mean on this board, other than Blackberry messaging?)

 

[STEADFAST]

Most news sources follow a manual of style. Don't know what this one uses, but this site cites how The Chicago Manual of Style (a prime authority)says elipses are used:

For example, The Chicago Manual of Style states, “Ellipsis points suggest faltering or fragmented speech accompanied by confusion, insecurity, distress, or uncertainty.” The Manual contrasts ellipses with dashes, which it states should be reserved for more confident and decisive pauses.


http://grammar.quickanddirtytips.com/ellipsis.aspx

They may also be used to indicate an omission, but the omission may not change the meaning of the original sentence. That use is pretty rare in journalism. Usually journalists use other devices, like interrupting with something like, "He went on to say _________."
I've never seen a news article use elipses to indicate an omission of words.

ETA I stand corrected by Kat010, who has much better credentials to address issues of journalistic style!

 

[eyes4crime]

I'm not verified on this board, but I am a professional journalist (with other career adventures along the way!) and also a writing teacher now and then (college level).

No, an ellipsis is not a "fill in the blanks." It signifies an incomplete quote.

Here, let me give you an example. I'm old-school journalism, BTW, which means that everything in a quote is a direct accurate quote and not a rephrasing, which is signaled by an indirect quote. Here we go.

Under fire, the mayor declared "I don't care what it takes. I will prove that this budget does not benefit my relatives. I am so sick and tired of the media butting in. I'm sick of do-gooders. Just shut up, all of you. Really, all day, all night, my phone rings with stupid questions. I intend to have this budget vetted by outside accountants at my own expense."

OK, that whole quote doesn't get used. Instead, the reporter writes: (actually let me rewrite from my first "in the flow" work) The embattled Mayor Tacky, under fire from allegations that the proposed construction budget includes provisions to favor his family's firm, declared: "I don't care what it takes. I will prove that this budget does not benefit my relatives....I intend to have this budget vetted by outside accountants at my own expnse."

See the ellipsis, the three dots? That tells you that although the mayor's statement is a direct quote (it's in " marks) the reporter has omitted some of his statement.

Now, let's continue with our story in the hands of an ethical journalist: next graf reads

Although Tacky stated his intention for outside budget review, the Department of Justice has already started their review of alleged improprities in the use of public funds. DOJ spokesperson Stephen Dogood said "We have had these proposals under scrutiny for weeks."

Tacky, in a spontanteous rant about outside interference, showed that the stress of the ongoing battle is taking its effects, Vice-Mayor Susie Goodegg said.

"He's really jumpy and touchy, which is making City Council work a bit harder," she explained.

During the interview for this story, Tacky unleashed a rash of complaints about citizen and media interference, including this statement "....all day, all night, my phone rings..."

See the two sets of ellipsis? Tells you that there's material missing from before the quote and after the quote. That frequently happens if, say a speaker is profane, or the entire statement doesn't move the story forward.

HTH. (BTW, what does BBM mean on this board, other than Blackberry messaging?)

LOL - BBM means that I've taken a portion of the comment I am quoting and bolded it for specifics. Just a courtesy to those who comment that you clarify any changes made to the comment.

What does HTH mean? :blushing:

And thank you for clarifying. Your credentials show through as does your thoroughness. :blowkiss: So using ... in this story might be to push a story through or pausing, or a change in direction. moo

 

[STEADFAST]

I'm not verified on this board, but I am a professional journalist (with other career adventures along the way!) and also a writing teacher now and then (college level).

No, an ellipsis is not a "fill in the blanks." It signifies an incomplete quote.

Here, let me give you an example. I'm old-school journalism, BTW, which means that everything in a quote is a direct accurate quote and not a rephrasing, which is signaled by an indirect quote. Here we go.

Under fire, the mayor declared "I don't care what it takes. I will prove that this budget does not benefit my relatives. I am so sick and tired of the media butting in. I'm sick of do-gooders. Just shut up, all of you. Really, all day, all night, my phone rings with stupid questions. I intend to have this budget vetted by outside accountants at my own expense."

OK, that whole quote doesn't get used. Instead, the reporter writes: (actually let me rewrite from my first "in the flow" work) The embattled Mayor Tacky, under fire from allegations that the proposed construction budget includes provisions to favor his family's firm, declared: "I don't care what it takes. I will prove that this budget does not benefit my relatives....I intend to have this budget vetted by outside accountants at my own expnse."

See the ellipsis, the three dots? That tells you that although the mayor's statement is a direct quote (it's in " marks) the reporter has omitted some of his statement.

Now, let's continue with our story in the hands of an ethical journalist: next graf reads

Although Tacky stated his intention for outside budget review, the Department of Justice has already started their review of alleged improprities in the use of public funds. DOJ spokesperson Stephen Dogood said "We have had these proposals under scrutiny for weeks."

Tacky, in a spontanteous rant about outside interference, showed that the stress of the ongoing battle is taking its effects, Vice-Mayor Susie Goodegg said.

"He's really jumpy and touchy, which is making City Council work a bit harder," she explained.

During the interview for this story, Tacky unleashed a rash of complaints about citizen and media interference, including this statement "....all day, all night, my phone rings..."

See the two sets of ellipsis? Tells you that there's material missing from before the quote and after the quote. That frequently happens if, say a speaker is profane, or the entire statement doesn't move the story forward.

HTH. (BTW, what does BBM mean on this board, other than Blackberry messaging?)

Bolded by Me (when you put someone's words in boldface although the original post wasn't in boldface)

 

[eyes4crime]

In first part of TY's sentence was unfinished, hence the ellipses. His initial thought was not completed. There's really no other good way to show it other than to write out [pause]. Which is the way it's sometimes done on a transcript of a videotape.

It seemed really obvious to me but, as always, I'm happy to stand corrected

Oh no, I'm not trying to correct - I'm trying to understand. I see those dot.dot.dot.'s everywhere in media writeups and always thought they meant omission of words. I've since learned better. Thank you. :blowkiss:

 

[2goldfish]

LOL - BBM means that I've taken a portion of the comment I am quoting and bolded it for specifics. Just a courtesy to those who comment that you clarify any changes made to the comment.

What does HTH mean? :blushing:

And thank you for clarifying. Your credentials show through as does your thoroughness. :blowkiss: So using ... in this story might be to push a story through or pausing, or a change in direction. moo

BBM


hth = happy to help/hope that helps