UID Victim: "Cherries", Mamaroneck, Blk/Hisp, 605UFNY, found Mar 2007

[Al Ka]

I have previously thought that her limbs were found scattered around Long Island Gilgo Beach and therefore dumped at different times then her torso (as LISK tend to do), but on closer look Cold Spring Harbor is just on other side of bay, opposite Mamaroneck Ny, the same waters.

My thought is that she could have been dumped from boat or shore nearby Mamaroneck (as heavy torso in suitcase would not float too far) and rest of the dumped limbs floated to nearby beaches in the storm.

It would be great if someone attached pic of map, not sure how to do yet but here is the link.
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/M...408fc6926ea!2m2!1d-73.456788!2d40.8714873!3e0

 

[ShelliMack82]

Could it be that Cherries and Peaches are linked?? They are both black females with fruit tattoos and as I was reading in a story on the forum NEWS reports possibly of interest on the LISK case there was prostitution ring bust year back with a father and son that owned a cab company that not only was it these 2 men but they had 6 others various ages and races that worked for them. They branded and tattooed their girls and these guys were so savage the main guy actually sold his own daughter and eventually sold her to another pimp. These guys lived all over New York and had houses in Allentown PA. Also if you look at the location on the map where "Cherries" was disposed of it basically the same as Gilgo Beach just on the opposite side of the land but the terrain and everything is the same... I mean if you are comfortable with the area like our killer surely is because IMO I tie Jessica Taylor, Peaches/Jane Doe 3, Toddler, Jane Doe 6, and probably Asian Male to the same killer as "Cherries" if my theory is correct he is so comfortable with this area that when his dumping ground was discovered in 2011 he decided to move but not too far away... I could be wrong but just look at the map??!!!
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/dir/M...52f89553dc0!2m2!1d-72.807879!2d40.8737096!3e0

 

[Al Ka]

Welcome to WebSleuth ShelliMack82.

Do you have any link to this father and son so I can read up on them? I have not heard about them yet.
There are assumptions that those cases are linked but NYC had/has vast amount of murders with quite many dismembered victims all over. I do agree though that Gilgo Beach murders, because of close proximity of bodies and manner of death do point to serial killer.

I have not look into LISK thread much but I wonder if anyone actually tried to do list with dates and locations of all dismembered victims found of unsolved but also solved cases in the area no matter who the suspect was (not just known LISK list)? I have seen some cases in NamUs of missing people in NJ and other states nearby that there are still listed as missing as not all their limbs were located. (Absolutely horrible).
e.g
Holly Grim from PA 2013 https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/22753/
Amy Giordano NJ 2007 https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/766/

Anyway I think list of all dismb.cases would really help to see clearer picture how often and in which locations things happened. So far connected or not.

 

[ShelliMack82]

Welcome to WebSleuth ShelliMack82.

Do you have any link to this father and son so I can read up on them? I have not heard about them yet.
There are assumptions that those cases are linked but NYC had/has vast amount of murders with quite many dismembered victims all over. I do agree though that Gilgo Beach murders, because of close proximity of bodies and manner of death do point to serial killer.

I have not look into LISK thread much but I wonder if anyone actually tried to do list with dates and locations of all dismembered victims found of unsolved but also solved cases in the area no matter who the suspect was (not just known LISK list)? I have seen some cases in NamUs of missing people in NJ and other states nearby that there are still listed as missing as not all their limbs were located. (Absolutely horrible).
e.g
Holly Grim from PA 2013 https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/22753/
Amy Giordano NJ 2007 https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/766/

Anyway I think list of all dismb.cases would really help to see clearer picture how often and in which locations things happened. So far connected or not.

Hi and thanks for the welcome Al Ka!!! I have basically thrown myself like with anything I do all the way into this and I have so many theories and observations lol But I did find the links to that father/son cab ring although they were posted in like 2012 I believe.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...-sons-prostitution-ring-busted_n_1449107.html

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/manhattan/queens_father_son_ran_brothel_on_geNRERscHvZSaTp1x3os4J

As you said it would be so helpful to actually have a map with all of the dismembered vics and that is actually what I am working on now… this map though is only going to include what I feel like are the bodies that are from the killer we have been calling the Manorville Butcher because I am including the following vics whom in my opinion are his vics...
Vic 1 (that we know of IMO from where bodies were found) Fire Island Jane Doe or Jane Doe #9 to some;
Vics 2 and 3 IMO are Peaches and Unknown Toddler;
Vic 4 Jane Doe #6 where partial remains were found in 2000 not too far from where in 2003 Jessica Taylors torso would be found, I feel like this vic was killed and or abducted close to the time of Peaches and Toddler because of the way Jane Doe #6 was placed close to the toddler;
Vic 5 Jessica Taylor whose torso was found in Manorville in 2003 but her other remains would be found 8 years later very close to the remains of Jane Doe #6 whose partial remains would be discovered very close to Jessica Taylors torso.
Vic 6 Cherries and I believe he changed his dumping grounds because something disrupted him and he still was killing in 2007 but had to find a new place to dump but still in comfort zone.

Although with my theory Asian Male and other bodies will be added but I am still sorting through all this… I think these are similar and that the GB4 murders are a separate monster. They were whole and wrapped up in burlap, My Manorville guy tears them up leaves them all over the place but yet somewhat in the same vicinity. Idk like I said I am just getting into but any input on my theories is greatly appreciated…

 

[ShelliMack82]

I also want to add in my theory that killer may or may not be some how be connected to the parks department because of the places where the bodies where dumped... The ones I feel like are connected are mostly being found on state park property or right on the edge and are also almost always near water... Just throwing things out there because if we don't talk about it there is no progress and right now with this new discovery about Peaches I feel like its the time to make figure out who this guy is now that we even have just little more info if we find out who peaches is maybe we can find out about Cherries because I feel like they are connected...

 

[No it's not]

"Although cherry tattoos can symbolize sweetness, kindness, and goodness, they are usually associated with sexuality, loss of innocence, fertility, or lust."
..
"The fruit and juice of the cherry is usually rich red in color. It is notorious for staining lips and fingers the same tantalizing shade. For this reason, cherries are often associated with virginity because the fruit is tempting while the color mimics blood. Cherry tattoos typically symbolize this second meaning. Usually chosen by women embracing the sexual connotations, they are often tattooed around the hips and pelvis or lower back and butt area."

http://tattoos.net/cherry-tattoo/

 

[Holly Gothlightly]

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/w/wallace_stephanie.html

 

[daysleuth]

What is the back story on all of these other various, victims you are talking about here? Aside from being sex workers, what else to they have in common with the GB4? In my eyes there is a vast difference between the GB4 and other victims you've named. Whoever killed Gb4, meticulously planned it. He went so far as to get burner phones and seemed to be on top of investigative techniques and such. He also lured and disposed of the victims in a very systematic way. It seems he has all his ducks in a row before he preys on a victim. The fact that he dumps them whole says a lot about his killing style. He's similar to a cat once it catches a mouse. He plays around with it for a while and then dumps it off shortly after. I don't think he wants to spend too much time on them after he has taken their life. The toy is broken time to throw it away and get a new one. I don't think the same person would be dismembering bodies and making more work for himself. This day in age, scattering bodies like that exposes you to more danger with the cops finding out. I don't think he'd take those chances.

For what it's worth - I agree with you on these points. But the M.O. is very important. Someone who kills and lays out their victims isn't going to start cutting up bodies and scattering them. These are two different types of killers. Strangulation is a very personal way to kill someone and most of the time when these murders are solved - there is a connection between the killer and victim. In these cases I think the killer knows the victims.

The bodies that were cut up are a whole other monster - who's head I don't want to get into. These are different killers. Stranglers don't start cutting up bodies unless something happens in the mind of the person and I mean a serious change.

 

[WesternArtist]

Could it be Sandra Laverne Cunningham? https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/show/24853
5'3" 168 lbs
Unknown tattoo on "chest and breast"
Missing since July 6, 2006, Youngstown, Ohio
I could barely find anything about her -no picture, no dental or DNA available. I did find her court records from 1999-2005 but that's it.

IMO Stephanie Collette Wallace as a few others suggested is a viable match. Has anyone submitted her?

 

[DQN]

Could it be Sandra Laverne Cunningham? https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/show/24853
5'3" 168 lbs
Unknown tattoo on "chest and breast"
Missing since July 6, 2006, Youngstown, Ohio
I could barely find anything about her -no picture, no dental or DNA available. I did find her court records from 1999-2005 but that's it.

IMO Stephanie Collette Wallace as a few others suggested is a viable match. Has anyone submitted her?

No one knows the actual submissions, you have nothing to lose submit it sometimes things are not the obvious. We only know what the panel submitted to law enforcement and what was ruled out listed on the Namus case information page.

 

[DQN]

I just posted this on Hodge Podge. Peter Hackett could be the to dismember the bodies that James Burke or someone else brought to him JMO

• Regarding Cherries and Westchester County: Cherries Torso washed up in Harbor Island Park in Mamaroneck, Westchester across the bay from where one of her legs was found washed up in Cold Springs Harbor Nassau Long Island and the next day another leg washed up in Cove Neck Nassau Long Island.
  
  Point being if you look at a map Harbor Island is right across the bay from the other locations in Nassau County Long Island.
  
  Depending on the tides the parts could have been dumped from a boat or dumped in Long Island on the Nassau shoreline, depending on the winds and the tide the torso drifted across the bay to Harbor Island from Long Island.
  
  I also live on the east coast waters not far from Gilgo beach. I have had jumpers from the Verrazano Bridge in Staten Island wash up on my private beach and I live in a different borough of NYC, not Staten Island.
  
  I would not be so sure that those parts were dumped in Mamaroneck Westchester NY waters.​

 

[Al Ka]

I really do not know much about water tides (or suspected P.Hackett for that matter) but for some reason I do not see very heavy suitcase with torso of 200 lb woman "drifting" much or across whole bay from P.H as suggested, while almost weightless limbs of legs would stay at the same spot.

Example of your jumper drifting and washing up far away is just confirming that these limbs of legs could really washed up from far away randomly at PH property.

Sorry to disagree, it is just my humble thought. Hope it makes sense.

 

[DQN]

I really do not know much about water tides (or suspected P.Hackett for that matter) but for some reason I do not see very heavy suitcase with torso of 200 lb woman "drifting" much or across whole bay from P.H as suggested, while almost weightless limbs of legs would stay at the same spot.

Example of your jumper drifting and washing up far away is just confirming that these limbs of legs could really washed up from far away randomly at PH property.

Sorry to disagree, it is just my humble thought. Hope it makes sense.

The waters when rough can move a suit case. Although Cherries body weight was considered 180-200 lbs her torso would have been half the body weight, so figure 90 -100lbs in the suitcase. The waters are powerful at times and capable of moving a lot of weight. I see a lot of heavy things wash up more than 200 lbs on the NY Harbor shoreline where I live. In addition Harbor Island Mamaroneck is about 8-10 miles across the Bay from Nassau. Cold Springs and Cove Neck are inlets in Nassau.

See the map below zoom in on the details. The parts could have been very well been dumped off Oyster Bay from the Caumsett State Park.
The parts will move with the tides twice a day, the tide runs from East to West and West to East. There are a lot of variables involved, the weight of the parts dumped and the 90-100 lbs in the suitcase which could have floated west or the tide could have brought it to Harbor Island in Mamaroneck. So many possibilities here. PH lives on the side of the Long Island land mass on South Oyster Bay. Pan the map up to see Gilgo Oak Beach.


https://www.google.com/maps/@40.897958,-73.4862595,12z


My jumper from the bridge scenario would be carried straight down the channel and wash up on the east or west side of an 8 mile water spread.

 

[bessie]

Don't forget that we now have a thread to keep track of submissions. Please read Post #1 before you post.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=13064490

 

[WesternArtist]

Bump. I couldn't find Cherries in NamUs so I contacted their regional administrator to notify them of this (as per info from BigCityAccountant on FI JD thread). I also went ahead and submitted Stephanie Collette Wallace as a match via Doe Network and updated the submission thread. She had been suggested years ago but I couldn't tell if she had actually been submitted yet so I thought it couldn't hurt, just in case.

 

[PictureSnatcher]

Unlikely because she disappeared 2 years earlier but it's worth noting Tanya Rush ived on Livonia Avenue off of Mother Gaston Blvd. Wendy disappeared on Mother Gaston

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/r/robinson_wendy.html

Maybe not Cherries, but possibly connected t this case somehow.

 

[WesternArtist]

Cherries is now in NamUs!

https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/16224

 

[WesternArtist]

Upon looking at the info in NamUs for Cherries and comparing it to what is in Doe Network a few things stand out:

Her bra is size 38B and her camisole is size M -these seem smaller than I would expect for a woman who is 5'7"-6'1" and 180-200 lbs as Doe Network lists for estimates. If we look for missing women who fit the other criteria but are maybe a little more average in size it could really expand our search.

 

[coffeeandacig]

Upon looking at the info in NamUs for Cherries and comparing it to what is in Doe Network a few things stand out:

Her bra is size 38B and her camisole is size M -these seem smaller than I would expect for a woman who is 5'7"-6'1" and 180-200 lbs as Doe Network lists for estimates. If we look for missing women who fit the other criteria but are maybe a little more average in size it could really expand our search.

Just based on my clothing knowledge... I'd estimate using the average US women's height of 5' 4", that a 38B is probably a woman around 150 lbs and a size 12 in tops. A Medium cami would be really tight on a 38B. The correct size would be a Large for 38B.

 

[coffeeandacig]

Just based on my clothing knowledge... I'd estimate using the average US women's height of 5' 4", that a 38B is probably a woman around 150 lbs and a size 12 in tops. A Medium cami would be really tight on a 38B. The correct size would be a Large for 38B.

Sorry, just wanted to add this lady is within the clothing parameters, if she hasn't been posted before. Dorothy Butts, Washington DC, missing since Dec. 30, 2006, 5' 6", 42/43 yrs. old, 158 lbs. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/19544/9