UID Victim: Manorville John Doe, Hispanic male, 5'6", 112 lbs., Namus 2725, found Nov 2000

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WesternArtist said:
From what I understand he was found in the same area as where JT's torso was found but a few months later. It's unclear if they were killed at the same time because he was found in mid November, 2003 and is estimated by NamUs as being there for about a month before being found but in the Long Island Weekly it says "up to four months earlier." JT's torso was found in late July, 2003. It doesn't say if the whole body of this male was found or if he was dismembered -IMO this means he was not dismembered.
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What if the killer reuses the dumping ground after cause he assumes the cops think they have all the bodies from the previous finds
 
Evey said:
What if the killer reuses the dumping ground after cause he assumes the cops think they have all the bodies from the previous finds
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He would also probably know the P.D. would not have invested much effort in finding him. The dead presumably prostitutes. They shrug it off. He probably knew Burke was a freak so he (Burke)was going to try to keep it all hushed. Swept under the rug whatever. I think he felt very cozy for awhile and would dump in another's yard.
 
I've been looking through MP's to try to find a match to the other Manorville John Doe (2003). Here's his link https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/13094
Very little info is available for him: White Male, about 5'6" tall, 35-40 years

Here's two potential matches I've found:
Jerald M. Gelb http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/g/gelb_jerald.html
Missing from Brookline, MASS 2001, 5'6" 40 yrs possibly homeless at that time. Brilliant man who suffered a nervous breakdown and was possibly schizophrenic.

Charles Ray Jordan Jr. http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/j/jordan_charles.html
Missing from Laurel, MS, 5'7"-5'9", 41 yrs January 2003 after being released from jail. History of meth use.
 
Armchair-reader said:
He would also probably know the P.D. would not have invested much effort in finding him. The dead presumably prostitutes. They shrug it off. He probably knew Burke was a freak so he (Burke)was going to try to keep it all hushed. Swept under the rug whatever. I think he felt very cozy for awhile and would dump in another's yard.
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Yes he likely saw it as this crappy cop will sweep it under the rug and not investigate causes hes lazy so he will not look into it much. I can see him dumping the girl them after the cops find her he goes hmm I bet I can dump this dude there also so it makes me wonder what ifher spots could her he have done this at?
 
Emre E said:
That's the problem with this case. I overcome by not buying anything SCPD says.

Fitzpatrick is still withholding the image of a tattoo located on the female victim for verification purposes
http://www.doenetwork.org/media/news18.html

So, this never happened but KENNY HERZOG put it in his article anyway?

Todd Matthews singlehandedly made the biggest breakthrough in the case over the years. Just by asking a simple question and you still want to trust LE who sit on evidence without doing nothing? Be my guest.
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Hey I never said it didn't happen! I said scpd could have been lying, I personally spoke to Kenny and I don't see why or how could have been mistaken about what Fitzpatrick said. So why did say it?
 
deedee21 said:
Tirrel Santiago was reported missing. There is someone using his name and SS#. He claims to be Terril. LE is not interested in doing a visual to see if its him or not. LAZY.
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Deedee, that's not tirrel. It's one of the Asian guys like mo zhang or someone
 
Hotpotato said:
It's frustrating because there's some posters who are really quick to shoot down any other theory but their own and then dance around what they think with these open ended type questions. State what you think happened instead of like "why is that" "why would they do that" "what is ______". It's not helpful. If you're so sure, as you clearly seem to be. Say what you're thinking. Why you're thinking it. What evidence you think supports it. Until you do that, stop acting like every other person is stupid because they think differently.
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I could have sworn I just posted a response to this but I guess I imagined it. It sounds like maybe you are talking about me potato. I feel like I've been pretty vocal about my theory. It's more productive to just look at the facts and stick with what they tell us. My understanding is male victim homicide strangulation is much rarer than strangulations of female victim. So the fact that John Doe is stranguled and dumped in his underwear tells us he is most likely not a "driver/pimp" but that there is a sexual element to the murder. The February 2012 male who was also found in his underwear and wrapped in a bed sheet gives further credence to this theory and also indicates a possible setting for the murder which points to a sexual angle.
 
Do you have a link for this February 2012 case with the underwear and bed sheet? I believe you did read that somewhere -I'm just having a hard time finding it. I'd like to try to sleuth it further. Here's what I could find... I'm posting links just to check if it's the case you're referring to.
https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/11010
For clothing on body it just says:
Socks: white and green tube socks
Waistband: "Eddie Bauer" "XL"
(I'm assuming this Eddie Bauer part is underwear or boxers)
http://archive.longislandpress.com/...tal-remains-found-in-manorville-likely-human/

I posted this upthread but I would also like to really try to work on finding a match for the John Doe found in November 2003 near where JT was found. Since she's the only dismembered victim who has been identified if we could ID that John Doe we could possibly figure out what their connection was. I know there's no distinctive info with this case so it's a challenging one.
https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/13094

On a side note: I noticed something with this one which is probably a coincidence unless it was the killer who reported finding the body but November 10 is the same day that Theresa Fusco was murdered (not the same year of course).
 
WesternArtist said:
Do you have a link for this February 2012 case with the underwear and bed sheet? I believe you did read that somewhere -I'm just having a hard time finding it. I'd like to try to sleuth it further. Here's what I could find... I'm posting links just to check if it's the case you're referring to.
https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/11010
For clothing on body it just says:
Socks: white and green tube socks
Waistband: "Eddie Bauer" "XL"
(I'm assuming this Eddie Bauer part is underwear or boxers)
http://archive.longislandpress.com/...tal-remains-found-in-manorville-likely-human/

I posted this upthread but I would also like to really try to work on finding a match for the John Doe found in November 2003 near where JT was found. Since she's the only dismembered victim who has been identified if we could ID that John Doe we could possibly figure out what their connection was. I know there's no distinctive info with this case so it's a challenging one.
https://www.identifyus.org/en/cases/13094

On a side note: I noticed something with this one which is probably a coincidence unless it was the killer who reported finding the body but November 10 is the same day that Theresa Fusco was murdered (not the same year of course).
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If you look up any of the articles from February 2012 the guy who found the body did interviews with every outlet and he described how the body was wrapped in a worn bed sheet and then a garbage bag with tape.

Not to nitpick but I just want to point this out, the 2003 male wasn't found super close to Jessica Taylor, certainly within the vicinity, but just off Toppings Path. But the fact that he was said to be dumped 4 months earlier says he was dumped the same time as Jessica Taylor. I too followed that same train of thought that since JT was the only one identified, the male might have a shot. And I spoke to Ms. Taylor's pimp about the man. Alas, although he was aware of the man, he had no idea who could be or any explanation of why he might have been killed or dumped with Jessica.
 
Thanks, I found the description of what the body was in very quickly based on that.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who was thinking of starting with the 2003 Manorville John Doe because of the possible JT connection. I could see they were both found in the Pine Barrens and realized they would have been dumped from different roads but hadn't calculated the distance between dump sites. Since you've been in touch KW and know that even if we ID'd the JD we probably couldn't make that connection to JT I now understand why you're more focused on the case of this thread. BTW I agree that since the 2000 JD was strangled and found with only boxers does make this case more likely to have a had a sexual motive than just a driver, witness, or other collateral damage.

If you have a good rapport with KW I'd like to ask him a question, "Did JT use a party line to find dates?" He should know this as her former pimp. If you're not up for communicating on behalf of us I completely understand. I've been afraid to contact him because I read what he posted on the JT thread in 2012 so I didn't think he'd be open to talking to us. The reason I'm curious about this is it could point things more towards a one killer situation IMO. Finding girls on a party line before craigslist was around or widely used for that would be a very consistent MO with the GB4 killings. It would fit the phone fixation, allow the SK to select the victim and have time to groom the victim over the phone prior to meeting. Of course knowing this would not be definitive but I am curious. (Maybe they're called different things regionally but hopefully you know what I mean -those things that were advertised on late night TV "meet hot local singles." Girls could call in and make a brief voice recording advertising themselves. Potential clients could go through them with a touchtone menu and connect to the numbers the girls had put in. In my memory they were popular in 2003.)
 
I was put in touch with KW after many years of trying. I kind of doubt she worked for a party line if you want my opinion. They are usually more "legit".
 
PictureSnatcher said:
I was put in touch with KW after many years of trying. I kind of doubt she worked for a party line if you want my opinion. They are usually more "legit".
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I'm impressed you were able to get in touch with KW and I certainly don't want you to screw it up for a mere theory of mine. The party lines I'm thinking of weren't legit -they were just local phone services where any girl could call in to set up a recording. The code for them being an escort was just to say "I'm looking for generous gentlemen" at the end of their message. They didn't need to sign a contract or anything to use them. I do have a lack of knowledge of NY since I've never lived there so it's possible they weren't popular there or were called something else there.

Regardless that's great you have been in direct contact with KW -it could be very useful in the future if more specific questions come up.
 
If LE wanted the 2003 John Doe solved, or any really they're going to need to release more details. A sketch maybe? I mean it is beyond a shot in the dark at this point with the few details we do know.
 
Quick question...
Does anyone think that at this point Asian male's physical profile can be used as a key to narrowing down John Doe 2003 or even John Doe 2012?
The reason I ask, is that Asian male may have had a noticeable gait due to his musculoskeletal disorder and both Asian male and John Doe 2003 are estimated at approximately 5' 6".
Was/Is LISK looking for short men with troubles walking?

This gentleman, Jaime Romero, came up on my radar for John Doe 2012. He would also fit XL Eddie Bauer boxers. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/13913/0
 
coffeeandacig said:
Quick question...
Does anyone think that at this point Asian male's physical profile can be used as a key to narrowing down John Doe 2003 or even John Doe 2012?
The reason I ask, is that Asian male may have had a noticeable gait due to his musculoskeletal disorder and both Asian male and John Doe 2003 are estimated at approximately 5' 6".
Was/Is LISK looking for short men with troubles walking?

This gentleman, Jaime Romero, came up on my radar for John Doe 2012. He would also fit XL Eddie Bauer boxers. https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/13913/0
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I think he was looking for women/men he could easily overpower. Small, sickly (by circumstance, drug abuser, inebriated) a physical challenge. He just doesnt have the balls to take on someone who can challenge him.
 
Maybe his job has him working somewhere even a free clinic where he meets the victims cause I'm sure the girls would go to one about std tests and guys also. He'd know they'd be the type of person least missed by job and being not rich or housewives with husbands. I can't help but want to jokingly blame the jersey devil anytime I see someone say pine barrens
 
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