UK - Alesha MacPhail, 6, raped & murdered, Ardbeg, Isle of Bute, Scotland, 2 Jul 2018 -*arrest* #2

[Rhenish]

Yeah. I'm possibly havering. Thanks

I am havering also (just googled to see what that word meant LOL). <modsnip: off topic>

...Given that, maybe the accused is just corrupt to the core and had been planning his crime against Alesha all along. Quite possibly. I have leaned more toward an impulsive act but now I am really unsure. I have bought into some of the stuff defense has said such, as the accused called Toni to buy pot and now I do not really know if that is at all why he called, the accused very well may have called to see if she was awake.

Also, I did not know what Parkour was. Now that I do I can see how the accused could have been very skilled and creative at removing Alesha from the home with out anyone awaking. It was July, not sure what the weather was like but if her bedroom had an open window the accused could have, given his parkour abilities, scaled the outside of the house up to her bedroom. There are some crazy Parkour videos on you tube and it is mind boggling what those with Parkour abilities can do.

 

[Rhenish]

<modsnip>........

Back to The Accused. I think that his defense will be short and unfriendly if the defense even decides to offer one. If they are smart they should just rest their case after the prosecution wraps up and hope for the best.

 

[Truthseeker777]

<modsnip>........

Back to The Accused. I think that his defense will be short and unfriendly if the defense even decides to offer one. If they are smart they should just rest their case after the prosecution wraps up and hope for the best.[/QUOTE]
I just hope little Alesha is being soothed by the angels right now. The sheer brutality she suffered was truly demonic. The pathologist said he had never been shown what could have caused such injuries which leads me to believe the knife amounts to little more than a red herring...

 

[Bluedaisy100]

The accused didn't have to know Alesha to seek her out. First time psychopathic murders seek out vulnerable populations such as the elderly and young children because they are physically easy to dominate and control. He was most probably fantasizing and planning while hunting for a victim. Since he lived at the family home and didn't have a vehicle to transport a victim, a small child that he could carry off to an out of the way location was the most logical way to realize his fantasy. Why else would he have left semen if not for the sexual gratification?

Alesha was vulnerable because the door was left open and he knew it. I'm not saying he had a foolproof plan, but he did have a plan. I'm all for trying to understand the roots of psychosexual murder, but with our eyes wide open about the gruesome realities of the crime itself. I have more feeling for the victim than the perp. Arming ourselves with knowledge may currently be our best defense for protecting the vulnerable from them. All IMO

 

[bfin1995]

If you were on the jury, what would your opinion be of the evidence presented so far? To be clear: I do think he is guilty based what I've heard so far, but it's interesting to step back and weigh things up individually:

Texts/Calls to TM and RM for drugs - Suspect also messaged other dealers which supports his claim he went out for drugs.

TM's Testimony - I believe that they may have had a sexual past, but that doesn't sway me either way. The tidbit about other people messaging her all morning that the suspect could be behind the kidnapping is stunning to me, though. I wonder if the prosecution has not been allowed to mention previous history? Or if that is still to come? Will wait to hear more before ruling on this.

Handprint on Chair rail - I had to look up 'chair rail'. It's wooden moulding/trim on the wall. As the suspect did drug deals with RM it can be explained away, IMO.

Mum's CCTV footage - The most damning for me so far, particularly the shower/clothing swaps.

CCTV of 'figure' carrying child - It doesn't sound like the figure's face or clothing is identifiable so by itself this is not particularly damning to the suspect, IMO.

Testimony from friends - Nothing any of them said indicates guilt IMO, even the so-called confession. Teens can be vicious and thoughtless in their jokes.

Testimony from drug dealer who denied selling him drugs on the night - Damning. Suspect has been caught in an outright lie about where he was.

Clothing/Knife found on beach - The connection seems clear when paired with the CCTV evidence, and mum confirming the items look familiar, but I would want to hear the DNA evidence before I rule on this.

 

[Yenriac]

If you were on the jury, what would your opinion be of the evidence presented so far? To be clear: I do think he is guilty based what I've heard so far, but it's interesting to step back and weigh things up individually:

Texts/Calls to TM and RM for drugs - Suspect also messaged other dealers which supports his claim he went out for drugs.

TM's Testimony - I believe that they may have had a sexual past, but that doesn't sway me either way. The tidbit about other people messaging her all morning that the suspect could be behind the kidnapping is stunning to me, though. I wonder if the prosecution has not been allowed to mention previous history? Or if that is still to come? Will wait to hear more before ruling on this.

Handprint on Chair rail - I had to look up 'chair rail'. It's wooden moulding/trim on the wall. As the suspect did drug deals with RM it can be explained away, IMO.

Mum's CCTV footage - The most damning for me so far, particularly the shower/clothing swaps.

CCTV of 'figure' carrying child - It doesn't sound like the figure's face or clothing is identifiable so by itself this is not particularly damning to the suspect, IMO.

Testimony from friends - Nothing any of them said indicates guilt IMO, even the so-called confession. Teens can be vicious and thoughtless in their jokes.

Testimony from drug dealer who denied selling him drugs on the night - Damning. Suspect has been caught in an outright lie about where he was.

Clothing/Knife found on beach - The connection seems clear when paired with the CCTV evidence, and mum confirming the items look familiar, but I would want to hear the DNA evidence before I rule on this.

So far guilty. But we still have to wait on the defence. Next week will be interesting but indeed harrowing.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

Yes but, Rab says that the Accused was never IN his house and 'at the door' is very different to inside the door and beyond ...

In fairness to us all ... I think it's still unclear to us (not those in court) where exactly this hand print was found.

True. I am not clear. Also, I believe Rab did not say definitively that he had not been inside.

 

[Alyce]

I am havering also (just googled to see what that word meant LOL). <modsnip>

...Given that, maybe the accused is just corrupt to the core and had been planning his crime against Alesha all along. Quite possibly. I have leaned more toward an impulsive act but now I am really unsure. I have bought into some of the stuff defense has said such, as the accused called Toni to buy pot and now I do not really know if that is at all why he called, the accused very well may have called to see if she was awake.

Also, I did not know what Parkour was. Now that I do I can see how the accused could have been very skilled and creative at removing Alesha from the home with out anyone awaking. It was July, not sure what the weather was like but if her bedroom had an open window the accused could have, given his parkour abilities, scaled the outside of the house up to her bedroom. There are some crazy Parkour videos on you tube and it is mind boggling what those with Parkour abilities can do.

Also, I did not know what Parkour was. Now that I do I can see how the accused could have been very skilled and creative at removing Alesha from the home with out anyone awaking. It was July, not sure what the weather was like but if her bedroom had an open window the accused could have, given his parkour abilities, scaled the outside of the house up to her bedroom



Which brings into question, for me - how did he know
that Alesha was visiting the island at that time
where her room was in the McPhail home

I know it's a small place and I know how that goes ( I grew up in a small place ) everyone knows everything, but it's a stretch for me to believe that a 16 yr old teen, just starting his summer hols, would be remotely interested in the holiday visit timeline of a 6 year old girl who he - allegedly - did not know at all.

I think there is a grey area around the evidence ( in so much as the snippets we have heard ) about whether or not the accused had ever been inside that house and what he knew, or didnt know about the occupants.

 

[Ruthbullock]

If you were on the jury, what would your opinion be of the evidence presented so far? To be clear: I do think he is guilty based what I've heard so far, but it's interesting to step back and weigh things up individually:

Texts/Calls to TM and RM for drugs - Suspect also messaged other dealers which supports his claim he went out for drugs.

TM's Testimony - I believe that they may have had a sexual past, but that doesn't sway me either way. The tidbit about other people messaging her all morning that the suspect could be behind the kidnapping is stunning to me, though. I wonder if the prosecution has not been allowed to mention previous history? Or if that is still to come? Will wait to hear more before ruling on this.

Handprint on Chair rail - I had to look up 'chair rail'. It's wooden moulding/trim on the wall. As the suspect did drug deals with RM it can be explained away, IMO.

Mum's CCTV footage - The most damning for me so far, particularly the shower/clothing swaps.

CCTV of 'figure' carrying child - It doesn't sound like the figure's face or clothing is identifiable so by itself this is not particularly damning to the suspect, IMO.

Testimony from friends - Nothing any of them said indicates guilt IMO, even the so-called confession. Teens can be vicious and thoughtless in their jokes.

Testimony from drug dealer who denied selling him drugs on the night - Damning. Suspect has been caught in an outright lie about where he was.

Clothing/Knife found on beach - The connection seems clear when paired with the CCTV evidence, and mum confirming the items look familiar, but I would want to hear the DNA evidence before I rule on this.

I agree with everything you have said, apart from the knife. I can’t bear to read about the specific injuries (but I didn’t think it mentioned knife wounds), plus in the trial the coastguard who found it seemed to imply it could have been there a lot longer and not just dropped there recently, plus mum was vague she said one knife could have been missing but later in the trial it said two knives were missing and she didn’t seem to know when they had disappeared. I’m sure they have the right person, but based on the little bits of info shared from the trial I’m not sure there is much in the way of proof at the moment, that couldn’t be explained away.

 

[Alyce]

The accused didn't have to know Alesha to seek her out. First time psychopathic murders seek out vulnerable populations such as the elderly and young children because they are physically easy to dominate and control. He was most probably fantasizing and planning while hunting for a victim. Since he lived at the family home and didn't have a vehicle to transport a victim, a small child that he could carry off to an out of the way location was the most logical way to realize his fantasy. Why else would he have left semen if not for the sexual gratification?

Alesha was vulnerable because the door was left open and he knew it. I'm not saying he had a foolproof plan, but he did have a plan. I'm all for trying to understand the roots of psychosexual murder, but with our eyes wide open about the gruesome realities of the crime itself. I have more feeling for the victim than the perp. Arming ourselves with knowledge may currently be our best defense for protecting the vulnerable from them. All IMO

BIB one - no , he didnt have to know her, but as per my earlier post, he did have to know a bit more about her other than just the fact that RM had a daughter.

BIB two - we dont know that he didnt have access to a car do we ?

 

[HongKongPhooey]

What? There’s nothing on the video apart from jumping on a trampoline. Did I miss something?

There's just a flash at the end of the bonus section when the camera cuts to the left. I find it off kilter thats all. JMO

 

[mrazda71]

BIB one - no , he didnt have to know her, but as per my earlier post, he did have to know a bit more about her other than just the fact that RM had a daughter.

BIB two - we dont know that he didnt have access to a car do we ?

I wonder if Rab and or Toni were 'friends' with the Accused on Facebook because if they were or if just posting with settings on public (so even non friends can see) and either Rab or Toni were posting about e.g how excited they were that Alesha was coming for the 3 weeks ... then the Accused would be privy to far more info than a random acquaintance.

 

[charlotte123456]

Which brings into question, for me - how did he know
that Alesha was visiting the island at that time
where her room was in the McPhail home

I know it's a small place and I know how that goes ( I grew up in a small place ) everyone knows everything, but it's a stretch for me to believe that a 16 yr old teen, just starting his summer hols, would be remotely interested in the holiday visit timeline of a 6 year old girl who he - allegedly - did not know at all.

I think there is a grey area around the evidence ( in so much as the snippets we have heard ) about whether or not the accused had ever been inside that house and what he knew, or didnt know about the occupants.

“Timeline” could be the key in him knowing that Alesha was visiting. Presuming the accused had a FB account, he had probably already seen the typical smiling family snaps of Alesha with her dad and his gf.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

BIB one - no , he didnt have to know her, but as per my earlier post, he did have to know a bit more about her other than just the fact that RM had a daughter.

BIB two - we dont know that he didnt have access to a car do we ?

Good point. We know cars were removed at the time.

 

[Alyce]

Added my comments underneath yours in pink

If you were on the jury, what would your opinion be of the evidence presented so far? To be clear: I do think he is guilty based what I've heard so far, but it's interesting to step back and weigh things up individually:

I think it's good circumstantial evidence but would hope for something stronger tomorrow via dna links
( my gut feeling same as yours, guilty )


Texts/Calls to TM and RM for drugs - Suspect also messaged other dealers which supports his claim he went out for drugs.
Did he, I missed that bit - wonder if they have statements from them re missed texts/calls


TM's Testimony - I believe that they may have had a sexual past, but that doesn't sway me either way. The tidbit about other people messaging her all morning that the suspect could be behind the kidnapping is stunning to me, though. I wonder if the prosecution has not been allowed to mention previous history? Or if that is still to come? Will wait to hear more before ruling on this.
It would be interesting to know if those texts / messages have been saved and viewed by the police


Handprint on Chair rail - I had to look up 'chair rail'. It's wooden moulding/trim on the wall. As the suspect did drug deals with RM it can be explained away, IMO.
Ha - me too, never heard that term before

Mum's CCTV footage - The most damning for me so far, particularly the shower/clothing swaps.


CCTV of 'figure' carrying child - It doesn't sound like the figure's face or clothing is identifiable so by itself this is not particularly damning to the suspect, IMO.
At that distance I wouldn't expect anything to be clear, other than a figure - if they can actually see a face and identify a person then I would like to know what cctv package those people are using, so I can get the same one

Testimony from friends - Nothing any of them said indicates guilt IMO, even the so-called confession. Teens can be vicious and thoughtless in their jokes.
I agree

Testimony from drug dealer who denied selling him drugs on the night - Damning. Suspect has been caught in an outright lie about where he was.

Clothing/Knife found on beach - The connection seems clear when paired with the CCTV evidence, and mum confirming the items look familiar, but I would want to hear the DNA evidence before I rule on this.
I thought the knife was found on the beach outside the McPhail house and the clothing found much further along the beach ? I agree re the dna evidence. The police did say they often find items of clothing on that beach.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I wonder if Rab and or Toni were 'friends' with the Accused on Facebook because if they were or if just posting with settings on public (so even non friends can see) and either Rab or Toni were posting about e.g how excited they were that Alesha was coming for the 3 weeks ... then the Accused would be privy to far more info than a random acquaintance.

If not, she would have had to accept a message request before receiving a text or call. Believe the call was made from younger sister's FB tho.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

I wonder if Rab and or Toni were 'friends' with the Accused on Facebook because if they were or if just posting with settings on public (so even non friends can see) and either Rab or Toni were posting about e.g how excited they were that Alesha was coming for the 3 weeks ... then the Accused would be privy to far more info than a random acquaintance.

Posted reply twice, deleted duplicate!

 

[octagonsunrise]

If you were on the jury, what would your opinion be of the evidence presented so far? To be clear: I do think he is guilty based what I've heard so far, but it's interesting to step back and weigh things up individually:

TM's Testimony - I believe that they may have had a sexual past, but that doesn't sway me either way. The tidbit about other people messaging her all morning that the suspect could be behind the kidnapping is stunning to me, though. I wonder if the prosecution has not been allowed to mention previous history? Or if that is still to come? Will wait to hear more before ruling on this.

In my opinion this aspect of the case is of particular interest and i wonder if the defence might focus on it. Any previous history would be potentially significant.

 

[Edinlass]

There's just a flash at the end of the bonus section when the camera cuts to the left. I find it off kilter thats all. JMO

There’s a bit where he’s laying on that trampoline and it gives me the creeps

 

[Edinlass]

In my opinion this aspect of the case is of particular interest and i wonder if the defence might focus on it. Any previous history would be potentially significant.

I’m Pretty sure Scottish Law doesn’t allow any previous convictions to be discussed when up for something totally separate.

 

[Kikixxxx]

In my opinion this aspect of the case is of particular interest and i wonder if the defence might focus on it. Any previous history would be potentially significant.

Yeah this part really baffles me too, why would people just assume the accused was the one behind it and start messaging Toni saying it was him who was responsible, what reason would they have to assume that? So odd... unless there’s something that’s happened previously that would make people suspicious of him. Am I allowed to say that?

 

[Ruthbullock]

If not, she would have had to accept a message request before receiving a text or call. Believe the call was made from younger sister's FB tho.

If the call was made from someone else’s FB, it throws up two things- one he had genuinely lost his phone, but more importantly how do you prove it was him phoning? However going back through MSN I think it was all through his account.

 

[Truthseeker777]

In my opinion this aspect of the case is of particular interest and i wonder if the defence might focus on it. Any previous history would be potentially significant.

What I would like to know at this point is does the defence QC McConnachie actually believe the 16 year old accused is innocent?
Does he genuinely believe the father's girlfriend TMc committed this truly horrendous ultra-sadistic murder?

This is not a game here. I sincerely hope Mr McConnachie does not treat it like such

 

[Greyhome]

Hey guys im new here. I was brought up on Bute and went to school with RM.
This case has shocked me and i hope the accused gets the book thrown at him which im sure he will. Been reading through this forum and i do think too that the accused would have been looking for drugs on the night i have a bad feeling about the whole case though as if more will come out though im sure it will all be revealed soon about it