UK UK - Alistair Wilson, 30, murdered at home, Nairn, Scotland, 28 Nov 2004

[Pipsissiway_Potts]

I believe she was looked into (as standard procedure), and as far as I recall, there's never been anything to indicate her involvement. Only some speculation over the years, as she was inside the house when the murder occurred on the doorstep (?) and she continued to live in the same house. Beyond that, nothing.

I've gone around and around whether the name on the envelope was intended to mean anything to Alistair, or whether it was a previously used envelope and the killer was using it as an excuse to be there. I have a pile of yellow notification cards that I use at my workplace. Most of the yellow cards have nothing written on them. Sometimes I accidentally give someone a yellow card saying POSTAGE DUE or TOO MUCH MAIL IN YOUR POST OFFICE BOX when really it's just a notice they have a package. Maybe the killer just grabbed an envelope that was handy, and didn't see the name written on it. Paul could be the person who received a birthday card (or get well card) and just used it in the crime. A check would fit into it, and if the killer asked Alistair to write him a check, that would be a good reason for him to still be waiting at the front door. Alistair was apparently confused as to the meaning of all of it, hence him asking his wife if she knew what it was about. He may have concluded the person was mentally ill, high, or drunk and only went back to look in case the person was still there. Under the assumption he might not have stuck around. The killer may have pretended he was collecting money for a charity and was supposedly promised a donation. All just speculation of course.

 

[cortina]

I believe she was looked into (as standard procedure), and as far as I recall, there's never been anything to indicate her involvement. Only some speculation over the years, as she was inside the house when the murder occurred on the doorstep (?) and she continued to live in the same house. Beyond that, nothing.

I've gone around and around whether the name on the envelope was intended to mean anything to Alistair, or whether it was a previously used envelope and the killer was using it as an excuse to be there. I have a pile of yellow notification cards that I use at my workplace. Most of the yellow cards have nothing written on them. Sometimes I accidentally give someone a yellow card saying POSTAGE DUE or TOO MUCH MAIL IN YOUR POST OFFICE BOX when really it's just a notice they have a package. Maybe the killer just grabbed an envelope that was handy, and didn't see the name written on it. Paul could be the person who received a birthday card (or get well card) and just used it in the crime. A check would fit into it, and if the killer asked Alistair to write him a check, that would be a good reason for him to still be waiting at the front door. Alistair was apparently confused as to the meaning of all of it, hence him asking his wife if she knew what it was about. He may have concluded the person was mentally ill, high, or drunk and only went back to look in case the person was still there. Under the assumption he might not have stuck around. The killer may have pretended he was collecting money for a charity and was supposedly promised a donation. All just speculation of course.

yes.....as the other information on the. card hasn't led the police anywhere, I guess we have to assume they're. keeping it quiet so they've got something only a person involved in the crime and in the hope that it might tie in the future.

it could, of course, be a just someone who thought the victim had a lot of money...they were professional enough to avoid all the cctv cameras, but still seem to have messed up....if the east beach sighting is connected to it, it wasn't the brightest thing to do it so near to where the incident took place....I also sometimes just write someones names on a piece of paper to remind myself to. phone them and then use the rest for other things.

I dont pretend to be clever, but. Im not inclined to go for the big business failings motives....as. ive said, the sums would be too high and, if. it was. for revenge, they'd have killed. him immediately he opened the. door.

id go for keeping quiet, a personal debt or someone just turning up. to get money...both. to be paid by. cheque....id have thought if it were the last one, though, they'd. have said they wanted money before he went inside...but may not have done if they were mentally ill.....aaargh

whatever the. motive, the gunman seems to have been inexperienced

 

[davidt]

I think the big issue with the envelope if we go with the official version of events is that AW was never meant to return it there and then. He was given it either to do something with at a later date or perhaps just as a message. The details of the conversation AW had with his wife have never been revealed. That might shed a lot more light on things.

 

[cortina]

I think the big issue with the envelope if we go with the official version of events is that AW was never meant to return it there and then. He was given it either to do something with at a later date or perhaps just as a message. The details of the conversation AW had with his wife have never been revealed. That might shed a lot more light on things.

yes...unless we assume that the gunman was a bit slow and let aw close the. door very quickly, but that seems unlikely as aw would have looked at it for a few seconds at least....the gunman must have been waiting for a reaction or a message or he'd have left...it would be interesting to know if the envelope was as new or if it had obviously been used before...then wed have a better idea if the word Paul had anything to do with the crime.

 

[dotr]

The door reminds me of the blue envelope, are blue doors common in that area?
INCCCCC - BBC News

Alistair Wilson blue envelope - Bing images

 

[davidt]

One other thing about the envelope going with the official version of events. The caller can't have been too bothered about it. AW was not expected to return so the killer was happy to leave it with him. When AW did decide to go back outside there's no certainty he would take the envelope with him either. So could it be that rather than being given the envelope he actually snatched it from the killer. Perhaps he got frustrated with the conversation not knowing what was going on and just took the envelope off the caller to try and work out was going on.

Maybe he was never supposed to have the envelope and the killer was hanging around outside trying to figure out a way to get it back.

 

[cortina]

oh, those are good points you've. all made

does anyone know where the rumour about his being in a. hard gambling circle....in Glasgow....came. from.

if no one. can figure out another motive, in desperation, they always. come up with the possibility of an affair, but the. gambling is more specific....of course, some rumours. may have been put about on purpose.

if thats the envelope, it looks pretty unused....or is. it. just. a similar one

 

[Littlegreenlady]

oh, those are good points you've. all made

does anyone know where the rumour about his being in a. hard gambling circle....in Glasgow....came. from.

if no one. can figure out another motive, in desperation, they always. come up with the possibility of an affair, but the. gambling is more specific....of course, some rumours. may have been put about on purpose.

if thats the envelope, it looks pretty unused....or is. it. just. a similar one

As far as I am aware, it's a similar one. The police didn't issue information about the envelope for a long time and even now they won't give all the details - so we don't know very much about it

 

[davidt]

As far as I am aware, it's a similar one. The police didn't issue information about the envelope for a long time and even now they won't give all the details - so we don't know very much about it

Yes, as I understand the details of the envelope were only released recently. And then only partial details. Other information relating to the events of that night remain unreleased. We are left with a somewhat sketchy and vague account of what happened that night. An account which seems af odds with itself and seemingly contradictory in places.

 

[davidt]

Finally got around to reading Peter Bleksleys book.

Interesting but I'm not sure he got very far really. There's a lot of stuff about banking practices at the time and a lot on the finances of Livingston Football Club. However I really couldn't see any direct link to Alastair Wilson. Same for some of the other theories espoused in the book. Interesting but to me they just remain as possibilities rather than links.

There are other bits that are intriguing such as the neighbours reported comments on AWs lifestyle and also his apparent scepticism over aspects of Veronica's version of the night's events. Not much to follow up on though.

He does mention the issue of why was the caller still waiting outside when AW returned. There's a lot on the envelope but I expected more thoughts on why AW was given it if he wasn't expected to return it as the official line indicates. I still think this is the elephant in the room. I've done it as have many others in wondering what he was supposed to put in it or do with it before returning it whilst completely ignoring that officially he wasn't expected to return it at all.

His reasoning that it's unlikely to be a professional hit I think are sound. I do also agree with him in wondering why Police Scotland remain so tight lipped about everything so long after the event itself. Why no e-fit was issued as well.

 

[Konstantin]

Why no e-fit was issued as well.

it’s a good question.
Possibly because that would put Veronica in danger as it would show she remembered what the killer looks like and could identify him?

I get the feeling a lot of details about what happened in this case have been withheld or changed around to protect her. But she and the police must believe she’s safe since she’s still living in the house. Alistairs killing resolved whatever it was about.

something is very obviously very weird and off in this case.

 

[Coach]

Witness in Scots banker murder probe insists he's not 'hiding' - after Canada move

 

[davidt]

it’s a good question.
Possibly because that would put Veronica in danger as it would show she remembered what the killer looks like and could identify him?

I get the feeling a lot of details about what happened in this case have been withheld or changed around to protect her. But she and the police must believe she’s safe since she’s still living in the house. Alistairs killing resolved whatever it was about.

something is very obviously very weird and off in this case.

It wouldn't surprise me if the official version of events has been somewhat tailored to fit a particular narrative. That makes more sense than attempting to make sense of it as it stands.

I'm also of a similar opinion that the police may have reasons to be confident that Veronica is safe continuing to stay in the same house and continue living and working in the sane community. A community where in theory she could bump in to the killer at any moment. As you suggest that might be because they have information that whatever it was all about concluded with AWs death.

 

[cortina]

Finally got around to reading Peter Bleksleys book.

Interesting but I'm not sure he got very far really. There's a lot of stuff about banking practices at the time and a lot on the finances of Livingston Football Club. However I really couldn't see any direct link to Alastair Wilson. Same for some of the other theories espoused in the book. Interesting but to me they just remain as possibilities rather than links.

There are other bits that are intriguing such as the neighbours reported comments on AWs lifestyle and also his apparent scepticism over aspects of Veronica's version of the night's events. Not much to follow up on though.

He does mention the issue of why was the caller still waiting outside when AW returned. There's a lot on the envelope but I expected more thoughts on why AW was given it if he wasn't expected to return it as the official line indicates. I still think this is the elephant in the room. I've done it as have many others in wondering what he was supposed to put in it or do with it before returning it whilst completely ignoring that officially he wasn't expected to return it at all.

His reasoning that it's unlikely to be a professional hit I think are sound. I do also agree with him in wondering why Police Scotland remain so tight lipped about everything so long after the event itself. Why no e-fit was issued as well.

davidt.....does it say why the author thinks. the wife was lying and about what in particular

ive been thinking about why she should lie and I can only think that alistair did know. something.....if she was involved in planning the crime, it wouldn't have changed the train of events that night...his knowing something could also fit in with why he went outside again...not to see if the man was still there, but. because he said he'd talk to him after he'd opened the envelope....or do you think the victim didn't go in and out...he grabbed the envelope and was shot...the killer panicked and didn't take. the envelope and the envelope did mean something to alistair which his wife also recognised.

probably unlikely, though, as this knowledge would have put her in danger...unless she. was involved in. some way...nothing is impossible, but I. dont think. so.

a friend of mine was attacked in a bank...nothing to do with him....years before. the branch had given someone a business loan...the business failed...the man died and the family blamed his death on the. stress and. on the bank for lending him money in the first place...so you never know

 

[davidt]

davidt.....does it say why the author thinks. the wife was lying and about what in particular

ive been thinking about why she should lie and I can only think that alistair did know. something.....if she was involved in planning the crime, it wouldn't have changed the train of events that night...his knowing something could also fit in with why he went outside again...not to see if the man was still there, but. because he said he'd talk to him after he'd opened the envelope....or do you think the victim didn't go in and out...he grabbed the envelope and was shot...the killer panicked and didn't take. the envelope and the envelope did mean something to alistair which his wife also recognised.

probably unlikely, though, as this knowledge would have put her in danger...unless she. was involved in. some way...nothing is impossible, but I. dont think. so.

a friend of mine was attacked in a bank...nothing to do with him....years before. the branch had given someone a business loan...the business failed...the man died and the family blamed his death on the. stress and. on the bank for lending him money in the first place...so you never know

Sorry if I wasn't clear but the author doesn't think she is lying. He was quoting comments made by the neighbour, not his own opinion. The neighbour said he thought AW was living beyond his means. Unfortunately there is nothing further to say why he thought that. The neighbour then also made comments about Veronica's version and seems to dispute some of the things on the basis she couldn't have heard or seen some of them. He apparently furnished the author with names and addresses of nine other people who were in the area at the time and who saw nothing. He finishes by saying he'd like to see a minute by minute time line of the events. It should also be remembered the neighbour in question was in dispute with the Wilsons at the time.

Only thing I did notice in the book is that author does bring up Veronica several times and each time finishes by saying the police say she is not involved. Almost like he wants to mention things but cover himself at the same time. However that's probably just me reading too much in to it.

I think we all have to remember that everything we know about that night comes from one person's testimony given to the police. The police then decided which bits to release. As far as is currently known there are no other witnesses. The police have been clear they have held certain elements back. The fact they held back the details of the envelope so long and then only released partial details suggests it's very important but we can only guess why.

 

[davidt]

oh, those are good points you've. all made

does anyone know where the rumour about his being in a. hard gambling circle....in Glasgow....came. from.

if no one. can figure out another motive, in desperation, they always. come up with the possibility of an affair, but the. gambling is more specific....of course, some rumours. may have been put about on purpose.

if thats the envelope, it looks pretty unused....or is. it. just. a similar one

Bleksleys book has a small bit about a (third hand I think) claim AW was seen in a betting shop betting very large sums of money. Again nothing to back it up.

Bleksley suffered because Police Scotland wouldn't talk to him, Veronica wouldn't talk to him and the bank wouldn't talk to him. The three primary sources of information closed off to him. Effectively he had to rely on anyone prepared to tell him anything. Any one bit might be true but there's no way to tell as there no evidence.

 

[Konstantin]

Only thing I did notice in the book is that author does bring up Veronica several times and each time finishes by saying the police say she is not involved. Almost like he wants to mention things but cover himself at the same time. However that's probably just me reading too much in to it.

Yes I noticed it as well and I don't think you are reading too much into it.
My interpretation of this was that PB really wants to leave the door open to speak to Veronica and so he needs to make it clear that he does not think she has anything to do with her husband's assassination.

I think we all have to remember that everything we know about that night comes from one person's testimony given to the police. The police then decided which bits to release. As far as is currently known there are no other witnesses. The police have been clear they have held certain elements back. The fact they held back the details of the envelope so long and then only released partial details suggests it's very important but we can only guess why.

I think this is spot on. I do think it's connected with the fact that Veronica won't talk to anyone about what happened--she has been instructed not to, to enable the police to have key information that can only be confirmed by the killer. Because if everything is in the public domain, there is nothing left that only the killer and Veronica know. Meaning, for one thing, that any nutter could claim it was him wot done it.

Also there is probably an element here of keeping Veronica safe. As you say, she is the only witness to the events of that evening and she didn't really see what happened of course, she was inside. But she did see the killer, if her testimony is correct on that part (I think that part is true because otherwise having her say she saw him when she did not puts her in danger unnecessarily). She can't give details about him, both because that would put her at great risk, and her family too, and because it would leak information into the public domain about the extent of what the police know and don't know about what happened, which can harm the investigation.

 

[Littlegreenlady]

Yes I noticed it as well and I don't think you are reading too much into it.
My interpretation of this was that PB really wants to leave the door open to speak to Veronica and so he needs to make it clear that he does not think she has anything to do with her husband's assassination.



I think this is spot on. I do think it's connected with the fact that Veronica won't talk to anyone about what happened--she has been instructed not to, to enable the police to have key information that can only be confirmed by the killer. Because if everything is in the public domain, there is nothing left that only the killer and Veronica know. Meaning, for one thing, that any nutter could claim it was him wot done it.

Also there is probably an element here of keeping Veronica safe. As you say, she is the only witness to the events of that evening and she didn't really see what happened of course, she was inside. But she did see the killer, if her testimony is correct on that part (I think that part is true because otherwise having her say she saw him when she did not puts her in danger unnecessarily). She can't give details about him, both because that would put her at great risk, and her family too, and because it would leak information into the public domain about the extent of what the police know and don't know about what happened, which can harm the investigation.

I agree - the police have always been so adamant that Veronica isn't involved, it makes me think they have way more information than we know - and that has come from her. They have their reasons (hopefully) for not revealing more - but I guess we would only know if the killer is caught or the case is solved.

 

[Ruthbullock]

Has the investigation ever been looked at again with fresh eyes and fresh testing on things like the gun, the envelope his clothes? Fresh eyes and all that.

 

[Konstantin]

Has the investigation ever been looked at again with fresh eyes and fresh testing on things like the gun, the envelope his clothes? Fresh eyes and all that.

They don't have the envelope. The only witness to its existence is Veronica, and she would have seen it only for a few seconds I assume. It was not found at the scene so the hypothesis is the assassin took it away with him.