Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #2 *M. Bridger guilty*

[dandan08]

but the family are posting on facebook asking people to pray for the safe return of april so no they do NOT have closure with the police saying she is dead

I give up

But the family will not have closure until her body has been found! It's still raw for them, they will always have that tiny bit of hope she is still alive until her body has been found. The police would have told them they have sufficient evidence she has been murdered but they still haven't found a body. You do not know what evidence they have, but it's pretty damn clear they have it.

 

[Cappuccino]

but the family are posting on facebook asking people to pray for the safe return of april so no they do NOT have closure with the police saying she is dead

I give up

As has been explained to you before, the families of missing children often don't accept that their loved one is dead even when the police tell them they have evidence of a murder. Sometimes not even after a body is found, which isn't even the case here.

The family's facebook post doesn't mean the police haven't told them she is dead, nor does it mean they don't have solid evidence on which to base their decision to charge their suspect with murder.

 

[BritsKate]

the family are askkng for prayers to bring their child home so seems no one has proved to them she is dead

Proof is subjective as I and many other posters have already stated.

If I had the choice between believing my daughter was lost some place, but alive, or the finality of death and knowing I would never hold or kiss her again, never hear her laugh...I know exactly which I would choose for as long as humanly possible. I would keep praying somewhere, somehow a mistake had been made. The DNA lab goofed, the eyewitness was wrong, it was a false confession, etc. I would do anything to hold onto hope. That's what most parents do in my experience with these cases. The alternative is just too bleak.

 

[Dr. Know?]

The search for April Jones goes underground

The search for April has gone underground. A specialist mine camera has been brought in and can be deployed down a mine shaft.


http://www.itv.com/news/update/2012-10-04/the-search-for-april-jones-goes-underground/

 

[Agatha Krispy]

I don't think the family will have any closure until April's body has been found. Unless this kind of thing has happened to you, it's impossible to say how you would act. Even after being told we have proof she has been murdered, I think I would still have that tiny bit of hope it's not true until she has been found. Then you can get closure.

It's still raw for the parents and the community there, and until she has been found they are still always going to have that hope that she maybe still alive.

I don't believe they ever get over it. I worked with a lady many years ago, whose school age daughter was killed and assaulted, It haunted her forever. Closure is one of those horrible terms that professionals like to pin on trauma victims.

 

[MidwestMama]

Have been catching up on the last few pages and have a few thoughts.

I personally think the police HAVE told he family they believe April is dead. They have said it to the public, they certainly would have told them first. It is a horrible situation the family is in and if I were them I would need a body found in order to accept that she is dead. Otherwise, there is a part of me that would ALWAYS hold out hope. That little part that tries to protect us from the pain of the situation. They are only human and asking others to help find her or even to imply she may be alive is understandable. I don't even live in the same country as this precious little girl and a piece of me holds onto hope that SOMEHOW she is still alive. I can't imagine how desperately I would hold onto that hope if it were my child.

As far as motive or asking why... A wise counselor asked me once "You are asking why this person did this horrific thing. Is there any answer they could give that would make it okay? That would make you accept their actions?" There is absolutely NO reason the guilty (whether it is MB or not) could give that would help us to say "Oh, now I understand. Now it's okay." The truth is, no one with a reasonable line of thinking would think it is okay to abduct and murder a child no matter what! Mad at the parents? Had an affair? Had a frustrating day? Getting back for a past wrong? NOTHING makes it acceptable so to me asking why in horrible situations like this, while a natural instinct, is a futile quest.

I feel he is guilty. Although I accept that there is a possibility he is not, I do not feel the police would be so definate in their announcement that she has been murdered without some very damning evidence. Why would they put the loved ones of April through the horror of being told she is dead if there is even the slightest reasonable hope she is still alive. Police have made mistakes, however, they are right many hundreds of times over when they are wrong when speaking this definately about his involvement. IF he is innocent he will have his time in court to show this.

God bless this family and all who love April. Although I live "across the pond" my heart broke along with yours.

 

[Inge Jones]

For a child homicide?

Yes, a few, but the only ones that spring to mind have been parents accused wrongly of child abuse (eg shaken baby syndrome), not people outside the family snatching them. But in some of these cases the innocent parent has actually spent more than a year in prison.

 

[MidwestMama]

as far as the police having any evidence:

On Saturday, Iwan Jenkins, the district crown prosecutor from the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) in Wales, said: "I now have to advise that, having carried out a detailed review of the evidence gathered so far by Dyfed-Powys police, my conclusion is that there is sufficient evidence to charge Mark Bridger with the murder of April Jones, and that it is in the public interest to do so.

"I have also concluded that there is sufficient evidence to charge the defendant with attempting to pervert the course of justice and child abduction."

http://au.news.yahoo.com/world/a/-/world/15051183/family-friend-charged-with-april-jones-murder/

As much as I would like to satisfy my curiousity of what the police know, what evidence they have, I PRAY they do not release one tiny drop of the information they have. This child (and her loved ones) deserve justice for this horrible crime and I do not want them to jeapordize their case at all. I will wait for the trial where it all will be laid out and examined.

 

[gitana1]

that doesnt make sense, if the police have solid evidence then the family cant cling on to hope

that was the point of my post, LE cant have shared evidence of death because the family are asking people on facebook to pray for the child to come back to them
This was long after the man was charged with murder and also reported on facebook

in other words the family dont believe the police saying she is dead

I'm not sure how long you have followed such cases or how many you have followed, Clutchbag, but for those of us who have followed multiple such cases for years, sometimes decades, we know that what you are saying is simply not true. It's just not.

Parents can be on great terms with investigators, assist them and have faith in them and can even attend trials of the accused, yet still insist they believe their child is alive and hold on to hope.

It's really part of the grieving process, in a sense. It's how parents are able to handle such cases without going insane. They grasp on to whatever shred of hope they can, as long as they can, even when that shred defies logic, because it is easier to breathe if they can be in denial about the truth.

Without a body, even when presented with serious proof that their child is dead, many parents refuse to accept it or believe it, at least at first.

 

[BritsKate]

Yes, a few, but the only ones that spring to mind have been parents accused wrongly of child abuse (eg shaken baby syndrome), not people outside the family snatching them.

Right. I was specifically thinking stranger/acquaintance murder. Familial homicides I kinda think of differently.

I could write a dissertation on our failure with current sentences for paternal and maternal filicides/infanticides but I'll spare you all.

 

[Clutchbag]

As I am sure they have told the family that. Do you know that they havent?

of course i dont know i was asking if the police have solid evidence she is dead and told the family then they cant be asking for prayers to bring their child back which to me means the police donthave solid evidence

 

[cluciano63]

of course i dont know i was asking if the police have solid evidence she is dead and told the family then they cant be asking for prayers to bring their child back which to me means the police donthave solid evidence

You are entitled to your belief. But do you really believe the police and searchers would be risking their lives underground, etc. if they did not have proof she was dead at this point? They are trying desperately to locate her body.

 

[Clutchbag]

For a child homicide?

No not that i remember but the principle stays they have charged people who were found innocent after trial and after convictions which were squashed

 

[MidwestMama]

of course i dont know i was asking if the police have solid evidence she is dead and told the family then they cant be asking for prayers to bring their child back which to me means the police donthave solid evidence

With all due respect, that line of thinking is in error. Just because the family may have hope or belief that April is still alive doesn't mean the police have no solid evidence. Those in the UK have stated that the police are not allowed to give the evidence information to the family. That does not mean they don't have it. The family is clinging to hope and even if they did tell them the evidence, it is likely they would still cling to hope. I would cling to any shred of hope if it were my child, whether it was reasonable in others eyes or not.

To say family believes = police have no evidence
is like saying one dog is brown = all dogs are brown.
It just simply isn't logical.

 

[TulipaNoir]

Such a sad case.

I still think the key lies with the parent's school meeting. I feel something happened there that made MB mad. Hence the erratic driving.

I read that he had 6 children by different mothers. 3 by his ex-wife, 2 by an ex-gf. Could the other be AJ?

I'm saying this as someone mentioned AJ is the stepsister of her grandchild (let's call the grandchild Z). And this Z. mentioned AJ being her stepsister. Z has the same surname as AJ and does not live with CJ and PJ. That makes me think that PJ is the father of Z. If AJ is the daughter of PJ, Z would refer to her as her half-sister, not her stepsister.

Perhaps MB went to the Parent's Evening for 2 of his other kids. Insisted on being in on the teacher meeting about AJ, but was rebuffed and lost his rag.

 

[MidwestMama]

Interesting fact (to me at least) I ran across when looking at info about this area of UK:

Robert Plant who wrote Stairway to Heaven was born in a cottage in April's town.

 

[Clutchbag]

With all due respect, that line of thinking is in error. Just because the family may have hope or belief that April is still alive doesn't mean the police have no solid evidence. Those in the UK have stated that the police are not allowed to give the evidence information to the family. That does not mean they don't have it. The family is clinging to hope and even if they did tell them the evidence, it is likely they would still cling to hope. I would cling to any shred of hope if it were my child, whether it was reasonable in others eyes or not.

To say family believes = police have no evidence
is like saying one dog is brown = all dogs are brown.
It just simply isn't logical.

what isnt logical is police telling you your child is dead and you keep hoping this isnt not true....unless police DO NOT HAVE THE EVIDENCE, IMO the family should be told what the evidence is

 

[mikeymot]

An interesting post. Obviously our thoughts are going all over the place with this but like you until there is substantial evidence that April is dead then we also believe that she is alive.

Interesting that people are thinking that there is an accomplice. My husband and I for days have been going through all scenarios and unanswered questions and one that keeps coming up is to establish what caused the separation between MB and his girlfriend only a week or so ago? <Mod Snip>
Much of the original witness accounts seem to have MB's ex's name attached to them. I still think the investigation should be concentrated far closer to home than away, as there is still only one unreliable 7 year old's statement of what was seen (which differs entirely to what we have been told), if anything was seen at all...and that child seems to be connected to the ex.

The latest spate of witnesses to come forward seem to be people jumping on a bandwagon, or overly trying to help in some way and unless they said something early on, I can't help but feel that they are not entirely reliable however well intentioned. Especially, for example, as much of MB's apparent behaviour, agitation and erratic driving could also easily be down to a car that's not working properly but seen through a skewed lens may now be seen in a sinister way. Like him wearing camouflage and waterproof trousers which can easily be explained if he was out searching along with everyone else.

There are always three sides to the story: his side, their side and the truth.

If MB is such an obvious suspect then I am baffled as to why there just isn't anything at all coming out about previous questionable behaviour. So the guy has had a few (but what appear to be long term) relationships. He's 46, not 26, so although not ideal that doesn't make him a criminal. It also seems that the women he has had those relationships with have similar histories.

I met my dad for the first time when I was 36. In the meantime, my dad had married and brought up another child and was a responsible father to him. Not seeing me for 36 years doesn't make him a murderer, it makes him an immature and selfish idiot who eventually tried to do better.

If the police have definite forensics linking MB with April's disappearance, then let justice be done.

If not, then goodness knows how they will move forward from this.

I guess we will know more by this evening.

In the meantime, still praying and hoping that April is found safe and well.

P.S. It also seems that MB and his LH drive car was very well known in and around the estate so why on earth wouldn't anyone have just said April just got in MB's car?

There are so many 'oddities' about this case that it invites speculation. Agree with this post...and Arabellas'...may be way off kilter but, as this man has so many 'ex partners'.....2 with his children on the same housing estate...I wondered if he was related to little April? He used to live next door to her parents...regularly takes local children, including his own and April, on 'crabbing' trips to the beach..so there would, of course, be traces of her in his vehicle. Maybe he was angry that she was out, playing, after dark and decided to teach her mother a lesson by hiding her? with one of his ex.(or current) girlfriends?...probably a way out idea but I find it very sad that no one seems to be looking for a little person anymore...just a body.

 

[cluciano63]

what isnt logical is police telling you your child is dead and you keep hoping this isnt not true....unless police DO NOT HAVE THE EVIDENCE, IMO the family should be told what the evidence is

To parents of a child, the evidence will be April's body, nothing less.

 

[Clutchbag]

With all due respect, that line of thinking is in error. Just because the family may have hope or belief that April is still alive doesn't mean the police have no solid evidence. Those in the UK have stated that the police are not allowed to give the evidence information to the family. That does not mean they don't have it. The family is clinging to hope and even if they did tell them the evidence, it is likely they would still cling to hope. I would cling to any shred of hope if it were my child, whether it was reasonable in others eyes or not.

To say family believes = police have no evidence
is like saying one dog is brown = all dogs are brown.
It just simply isn't logical.

what isnt logical is police telling you your child is dead and you keep hoping this isnt not true....unless police DO NOT HAVE THE EVIDENCE, IMO the family should be told what the evidence is