Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Clio]

I know the police fast tracked forensics from the car.

I thought what they found which led to the change of the arrest charge was found at his house-I might be totally wrong about that.

We don't know that it was something found in his house which led to the additional murder charge. LE didn't say. Jon Clements (ITV) seemed to think that it was to do with forensics on something in Mount PLeasant but other reporters were hedging their bets on what it might have been.

 

[Adorabella]

About to head to bed but before I bid you all a good night wanted to say that I was thinking that perhaps MB hasn't said where April is because:
a) he doesn't know
b) it will 100% implicate him
c) he has said where he thought she was and she is no longer there because of rain/ tides/ wild animals etc....

Night all.

 

[Inge Jones]

Regarding the colour of the car, it's understandable that the witness was not accurate because April was abducted about 6:50 pm - it was already dark.

A forum member who lives in Wales has told us it was not dark there at 6:50 on that day. The sun sets later in Wales than the meridian as it is further West.

 

[Sarah]

<snip> One question on that though...would a confession also be enough to charge with Murder? <snip>

I don't know, but I'd have thought that they'd need to back up any confession with additional evidence.

We all know that people have made false confessions in the past either through mental illness, a desire for attention or for whatever reason of their own . . . so my assumption is that they'd want to verify it in some way rather than taking a confession alone as definitive evidence.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Personally, I really don't think so.

The evidence that April is dead could be cadaverine, positive indication of specialist dogs, photographs, traces of hair, skin, body fluids, DNA in his house , items used to cut up or destroy or dissolve a body- they might have some of these. Apologies to the parents out there sorry.

For all we know he could have previous relevant convictions/arrests/charges in his past. He effectively left his home county and started a new life in this community. The press report locals stating that he said he had left the army following a back problem, yet the Ministry of Defence state he did not serve. His own Brother in Law said he was a fantacist who bragged about being in the SAS. (I do realise that being a fantacist does not make you a child murderer, but perhaps he was covering something in his past). We know absolutely nothing about his life before he came to Mac, do we, but the police will.

I am rooting for the police and have to believe they have a wealth of evidence. My problem is that if he is guilty he may never confess or say what actually happened and why. The poor family - may God have mercy on them.

JMO.

Yup, can't really disagree with any of that......I am one of those people who always looks for the good in people and probably way too naive when it comes to such horrific crimes...I guess is better than imagining the worst. I am a parent and though I lost a close friend to the hands of a murderer I can't begin to comprehend what April's Parents are going through....I really do Pray that he will at least do the right thing in the very near future and help get their Baby Girl back to them so they can begin to come to terms with it!!
I can totally understand why Mum is refusing to give up and as someone said previously the ONLY thing that would help that is to get her Body back..Poor poor Woman and Family.

 

[cluciano63]

For all we know, the child witness was looking at the inside of the car door, which may be light-colored. We just don't know.

LE almost never indicates that a child is dead, without a body or a severe crime scene. There are too many possibilities, in people wanting a child, etc. vs. when an adult is missing and they can show they have not used their bank cards, SS numbers, etc. for a long period.

Also, LE is being realistic in saying it is possible that April will never be found; not for the lack of their trying,in my opinion. Haleigh Cummings has never been found in 3.5 years, and very few people believe she is alive, including LE, but they never found a crime scene, so they never have declared officially that she is dead.

 

[SapphireSteel]

I don't know, but I'd have thought that they'd need to back up any confession with additional evidence.

We all know that people have made false confessions in the past either through mental illness, a desire for attention or for whatever reason of their own . . . so my assumption is that they'd want to verify it in some way rather than taking a confession alone as definitive evidence.

Ever heard of the West Memphis 3?

:banghead:

 

[Inge Jones]

Well the obvious thing, if the tyre marks by the river etc are all true, is he threw her in the river. He may well have said "I threw her in the river at (some exact place)" but we've all seen that river - it was up high and moving fast. She's really not going to be still where she went in.

 

[Suzy-sue]

Last thing published on eyewitness report said she entered a white or light grey van, not a dark blue car with stripes. Now she may have changed her story, but if she did, the public have not been told that. So *we* don't know an eyewitness saw April entering MB's car.

Yes i was about to mention this.. Most kids know different types of car and certainly many people have these landrover/ 4 x 4 type cars and that isn't a light coloured van..... most confusing..

One thing i did read was his vehicle was a left hand drive, (or she got in a left hand drive vehicle) so maybe when the other children described how the vehicle approached them and how and what side April got in maybe that clinched it for the police that MB's car was the only LHS drive they knew about and that April appeared to know the man and lets face it, most cases like this are carried out by people local to the area or known to the victim.... the only other thing i could think of was if MB didn't do it, but had enemies that had got a prosthetic 'mask' that looked like MB's face made and got a car/van similar to MB - he could have been set up..... but whilst that's not impossible, i would imagine that its probably more straightforward than that. I just also hope they have searched MB's homes and lofts fully and any other loft/hidey holes/silos etc in the area - looking for disturbances to spiders webs etc and all the other subtle and obvious clues that show up possible movement of people in different vicinities.....

God please help find April.....

 

[Sarah]

I really am far too slow at typing on here to keep up with the conversation - it seems to have moved on by 5 or 6 posts every time I hit the submit button :blushing:

A forum member who lives in Wales has told us it was not dark there at 6:50 on that day. The sun sets later in Wales than the meridian as it is further West.

Yes - I think I can confirm that too.
I'm some distance South East from Machynlleth, however, assuming that the weather was broadly similar I think I can make a reasonable comparison.

Last Tuesday was wet and overcast and it was indeed full dark by 19:00 - however on the Monday when she went missing we had clear skies here and it stayed light until just before 19:30.

After the news broke, the first local reports had the time of disappearance as 19:30 - so there was a lot of talk about when it had gotten dark and many people were taking particular note of the light levels in the early evening.

 

[opalsqueak63]

I can totally understand why Mum is refusing to give up and as someone said previously the ONLY thing that would help that is to get her Body back..Poor poor Woman and Family.

I totally understand this too.

Imagine you have a family friend, who once actually lived next door to you for a while, who you have known for many years, who is in and out of your house and friends with your husband, that you trust so much you let him take your infant child away for days with him and his own children.... then your child disappears one night and this man is charged with her abduction and murder!

It's not really surprising that some in the community can't believe it. I probably wouldn't either in that situation. Not unless he was found guilty, and maybe not even then, in their situation, without a body.

 

[Saturn]

Originally Posted by squish View Post
Regarding the colour of the car, it's understandable that the witness was not accurate because April was abducted about 6:50 pm - it was already dark.

A forum member who lives in Wales has told us it was not dark there at 6:50 on that day. The sun sets later in Wales than the meridian as it is further West.

Umm, think that might have been me, I live approx 120 miles to the South East, this website is one that stated Aberystwyth sunset was 18.53 that day http://uk.weather.com/climate/sunRiseSunSet-Aberystwyth-UKXX0203 but I did find another that also stated that dusk lasted for a good 30+ minutes after.

Saying that, just found this one where you can actually pinpoint the exact location - excellent site and may be useful in the future. http://www.sunrisesunsetmap.com/

 

[Clio]

BBM

I am in awe of your legal knowledge . . . thanks for sharing it!

Regarding the sentence I bolded above, can LE question MB about things related to the charge if he and his counselor agree? For example, is there an equivalent to a plea bargain? Could MB agree to talk to LE and provide the location of April, for instance, in exchange for a reduction in charges?

Sorry if this has been asked/answered. I've tried to keep up with all the posts, but may have missed a few!

Crikey – don’t be. Just stuff picked up over time and Google is my friend

I don't think plea bargaining officially happens in the UK although there were moves to bring it in for cases like fraud but I don't know how far that got. I don't really see how a defendant could give up the location of a body without admitting at least a degree of guilt. If it's clear that a defendant is responsible for a victims death, it may be possible to try and use manslaughter as a defence to murder. Effectively admitting to causing death but not having intended to. That probably doesn't answer your question properly. Maybe other posters can help.

 

[Sarahlou]

It appears on various forums and social Networks people who knew him well, Ie: workmates and a neighbour of 8years as well as some parts of the Jones Family are in total disbelief and are convinced that it must have either been an accident or he's 'flipped' over something, they all say he was lovely with his younger kids, a 'good' man.... SO....They are in shock at him? or We have the possibility this was somehow 'unintended'? or the one that's harder for them to accept he is a cold-blooded Murderer??

This has been the situation in lots of cases - families and friends in complete disbelief, as to them the criminal/suspected criminal was a good person and they never saw the other not so nice side. Some of these men(and women) are experts at lying and not showing their true colours to even those closest to them. It would be absolutely awful if you really had no idea that your loved one was like that.

 

[Sarah]

Ever heard of the West Memphis 3?

:banghead:

Unfortunately not . . . I don't recall that making headlines our side of the pond.
I guess from the context of what you highlighted in your quote that they were convicted on the strength of confessions only???

Sorry - off to bed shortly, so I'll have to wait until tomorrow to look it up (unless you want to enlighten me)

 

[cluciano63]

Even if a person is a jerk, for example, or a small-time crook; it is doubtful that his or her family member would ever believe they could actually kill a child. It is a crime that just does not compute. Everyone wants the killer to be a "professional child killer" as it were, not someone who could live in your own neighborhood, even though that is so often the case.

 

[Inge Jones]

I am not sure, but in English law (Welsh too?) I think manslaughter is automatically included as verdict that can be considered when a murder charge is being tried. I think that differs from US, because remembering the Louise Woodward trial, the defence were able to refuse to have manslaughter included, and they did this because they thought the jury would not find for Murder II, and therefore the only other option was a not guilty. They were horrifed when it backfired and the jury, who *would* have voted for manslaughter felt they had no option but to go murder rather than let her off altogether.

 

[Saturn]

Fairly recently in the UK, a person held pending trial confessed to a priest, the priest was in a right dilemma between confidential confession and sharing a material fact he'd learnt.

I can't remember the outcome, was it Vincent Tabak?

 

[opalsqueak63]

It could all be as simple as this - he is a psychopath, or sociopath, if you prefer that label. Studies on psychopathy in the population of the UK estimate a range between 0.5% and 2% for men, depending on the methodology used. Some studies believe the prevalence to be far higher than that. Say it's 0.5% in men - that's 1 in 200 men -that's a lot of people out there. I've a met a few in my work over the years. Most of them very charming men. JMO.

 

[Clio]

Fairly recently in the UK, a person held pending trial confessed to a priest, the priest was in a right dilemma between confidential confession and sharing a material fact he'd learnt.

I can't remember the outcome, was it Vincent Tabak?

Yes it was. VT was told that what he said to the prison chaplain would be confidential. So he admitted killing Joanna Yeates. Turns out it wasn't confidential so he could no longer plead not guilty so his only defence was manslaughter. Didn't work - he was found guilty of murder