Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #3 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Clio]

IMO they are charging him with perversion of justice because they are not confident that they can prove kidnapping or murder. They feel a need to charge him with SOMETHING. As in the article posted this morning the "key evidence" is the testimony of a seven year old. A seven year old who said she saw April get into a light colored/white van not a dark blue landrover. Who wants to bet this wont be the same testimony we hear at the actual trial?

If they can't prove he is guilty of child abduction or murder, I don't see how they could then convict him with unlawful disposal and concealment of a body? Here is the full charge

That between September 30, 2012 and October 3, 2012 at Machynlleth, with intent to pervert the course of justice, did an act, namely the unlawful disposal and concealment of the body of April Sue-Lyn Jones, which had a tendency to pervert the course of public justice contrary to common law.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9594065/Mark-Bridger-The-charges-against-him.html

 

[Alyce]

Clio, am having probs quoting your post 575 ........ but yes, interesting that the comment could be read two ways
They knew it was MB because they suspected he would do something like this

or

they knew it was MB because he was the only person in town with a LHD car ( or the only one they knew of, I understand there are actually 2 in the town )

Would be most interesting to know what other vehicle he owns

 

[Alyce]

If they can't prove he is guilty of child abduction or murder, I don't see how they could then convict him with unlawful disposal and concealment of a body? Here is the full charge



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9594065/Mark-Bridger-The-charges-against-him.html

That is my thought as well. I know the police dont always get it right but surely they cant just add on a charge of murder without some evidence that indicates a crime has been committed and that MB was involved in said crime

 

[sleuther317]

If they can't prove he is guilty of child abduction or murder, I don't see how they could then convict him with unlawful disposal and concealment of a body? Here is the full charge



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/9594065/Mark-Bridger-The-charges-against-him.html

I had forgotten about the specifics but if someone else murdered her and he helped hide/dispose of the body.

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

Yes, a prime example of poor reporting sending everybody chasing off in all directions.

That's why we call it the Daily Pest.

 

[Clutchbag]

What if something happened whilst she was with him, it wasnt murder, but he panicked and hid the body, afraid of being charged with negligent homicide or something like that. That would come under attempting to pervert the course of justice.

 

[sleuther317]

I assume the horrific murder of a innocent child carries a life sentence so the additional charges would add how many years????

 

[Clio]

Clio, am having probs quoting your post 575 ........ but yes, interesting that the comment could be read two ways
They knew it was MB because they suspected he would do something like this

or

they knew it was MB because he was the only person in town with a LHD car ( or the only one they knew of, I understand there are actually 2 in the town )

Would be most interesting to know what other vehicle he owns

Wonder if it's a Ford Connect Van? In the press conference LE said

"the van was small at the front and large at the back. So that could be interpreted as something simliar to a Ford Connect Van, something like a Landrover"

It's about 3 minutes into this video
[http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SUSeL4kR4q8]

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

Speculation and mapping, take the speculation with a grain of reserve. Mapping should be accurate.

Done some mapping and located both bridges, it appears the Millennium bridge is probably the cycle bridge referred to. Top of the photo is north, I beleive the river runs east to west and empties into the sea. The sea is approximately 45 mins away by car or truck. I beleive the river was reported as swollen and moving rapidly in that time period.

Yes to all. I posted a couple of pages back that the Millennium bridge is the cycle bridge. I've spent a great deal of time in this area over the years.

 

[nursebeeme]

What if something happened whilst she was with him, it wasnt murder, but he panicked and hid the body, afraid of being charged with negligent homicide or something like that. That would come under attempting to pervert the course of justice.

I doubt it. They have also charged him with abduction.:moo:

charges carry a legal burden that must be met. Something that we won't know more about until trial is the evidence that met that burden.

(unless of course he pleads guilty but I would think if he were going to be man enough to plead guilty he would also tell law enforcement where her body is. Maybe when he and his lawyer review the discovery in the case he will change his mind. I have seen this happen before)

 

[Mrs P]

Nawr te... I would like to say two things, and then I'll be off...

Firstly, there was no report of a black bin bag. Initial reports stated 'black bag'. It has then been taken out of context and has somehow morphed into a 'black bin liner'. Perception or fabrication?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/959...-mother-after-police-open-murder-inquiry.html

Secondly, who was the last adult person to actually state that they saw the little girl. The 70-year-old neighbour? No. The parents? No. The manager at the leisure centre? Yes. All other reports are implied. Perception or fabrication?

Basically, we have to read things carefully. Discussions are based around perception, mostly. This is (likely) dangerous. For example, my husband spotted a small child wandering the day before yesterday (guestimated age of 5), and not in a built up area (i.e. away from houses). Did he stop and check if the child was lost? No. Why? Because he drives a light coloured van and owns a Land Rover. He was petrified at the propoect of what might happen if he had pulled up alongside this little tot. What has the world come to, if a caring father-of-three feels ill at ease at the prospect of helping someone else's precious child? It's sad.

Am I grumbling? Sorry, if I am.

 

[Jasper52]

Thanks for all the updates everyone!

I have a real problem with MB dumping a bin bag in the river as reported. If he was getting rid of evidence, why not dump it in the river behind his house - out of sight from everyone?

It doesn't make sense that he would cart that bin bag from his house and dump it closer to town where the likely hood of being spotted is much greater.

 

[Mrs P]

Thanks for all the updates everyone!

I have a real problem with MB dumping a bin bag in the river as reported. If he was getting rid of evidence, why not dump it in the river behind his house - out of sight from everyone?

It doesn't make sense that he would cart that bin bag from his house and dump it closer to town where the likely hood of being spotted is much greater.

Just to reiterate my point above. Where, exactly, does it say that a 'bin bag' was 'dumped' in the river? It doesn't...

 

[Inge Jones]

Firstly, there was no report of a black bin bag. Initial reports stated 'black bag'. It has then been taken out of context and has somehow morphed into a 'black bin liner'. Perception or fabrication?

Yes but round here (London UK) if someone refers to "black bag" we always think of the ubiquitous black refuse sacks we all deal with almost daily. In fact it's getting so if you wanted to describe some other type of black bag you'd have to make that clear: eg "black rucksack" "black handbag". I dare say it's the same all over the country.

 

[nursebeeme]

Just to reiterate my point above. Where, exactly, does it say that a 'bin bag' was 'dumped' in the river? It doesn't...

I would have to find the link for you in a bit but I do recall the witnesses being interviewed and saying that in early reports.

:twocents:

 

[Cappuccino]

Yes but round here (London UK) if someone refers to "black bag" we always think of the ubiquitous black refuse sacks we all deal with almost daily. In fact it's getting so if you wanted to describe some other type of black bag you'd have to make that clear: eg "black rucksack" "black handbag". I dare say it's the same all over the country.

Same over here, (Ireland). That would explain how the assumption of a bin liner was made, but it doesn't mean the assumption is correct. It could have been any kind of black bag.

 

[Inge Jones]

Same over here, (Ireland). That would explain how the assumption of a bin liner was made, but it doesn't mean the assumption is correct. It could have been any kind of black bag.

Except that when they said it, they would be aware that the listener would be thinking of a bin bag, and I would expect most people talking of a black bag to qualify it if it wasn't, in case the listener assumed it was.

 

[Clutchbag]

Nawr te... I would like to say two things, and then I'll be off...

Firstly, there was no report of a black bin bag. Initial reports stated 'black bag'. It has then been taken out of context and has somehow morphed into a 'black bin liner'. Perception or fabrication?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/959...-mother-after-police-open-murder-inquiry.html

Secondly, who was the last adult person to actually state that they saw the little girl. The 70-year-old neighbour? No. The parents? No. The manager at the leisure centre? Yes. All other reports are implied. Perception or fabrication?



Basically, we have to read things carefully. Discussions are based around perception, mostly. This is (likely) dangerous. For example, my husband spotted a small child wandering the day before yesterday (guestimated age of 5), and not in a built up area (i.e. away from houses). Did he stop and check if the child was lost? No. Why? Because he drives a light coloured van and owns a Land Rover. He was petrified at the propoect of what might happen if he had pulled up alongside this little tot. What has the world come to, if a caring father-of-three feels ill at ease at the prospect of helping someone else's precious child? It's sad.

Am I grumbling? Sorry, if I am.

The old man according to the daily mirror said he saw her and that it was evening, but gave no timings. Unless the welsh call late afternoon evening, who knows.

You are so right about careful reading. A nice reminder.

Eta example, headline mentions bin bag but what the woman said in quotes says black bag.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/april-jones-missing-witnesses-saw-1361257

 

[Cappuccino]

Except that when they said it, they would be aware that the listener would be thinking of a bin bag, and I would expect most people talking of a black bag to qualify it if it wasn't, in case the listener assumed it was.

Very possibly. I've given up expecting that level of accuracy from press reports though. Still in the don't know camp ...

 

[Cendlaetholwr]

Yes but round here (London UK) if someone refers to "black bag" we always think of the ubiquitous black refuse sacks we all deal with almost daily. In fact it's getting so if you wanted to describe some other type of black bag you'd have to make that clear: eg "black rucksack" "black handbag". I dare say it's the same all over the country.

Same in mid-Wales. "Black bag" is synonymous with "black bin bag." Any other uses that differ from a bin bag need to be qualified.