Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #6 *M. Bridger guilty*

[PADDYWHACK]

Whatever happened, I don't think he is the only one involved.

That is why I'm stunned they haven't searched the estate.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

If he threw her in the river, even if he told them that, no one can tell where she'll be by now

If he told them that and it was credible, why would they still be searching all the other areas? However, we don't know what else they could be looking for.

<modsnip>

 

[LegallyBrunette]

No, but what if he is covering for someone he cares about? Or, he has no witnesses for his whereabouts?

1. He is a father, he surely would have empathy for April's family.

2. He can still tell police his movements from after the parents' meeting until he was arrested at 3.30pm the next day. There are witnesses at least for the time he dropped off the car. And other things can be verified in different ways, phone records, neighbours, there are ways if your story is genuine.
I'm thinking too to have a look at the map again, depending where he went there would be some CCTV from commercial areas.

None of the above explains why he wasn't out with the family looking for April, with all his outdoor skills he should have been one of the ringleaders and right in his element with his swiss army knife, camo gear and waterproof daks.:moo:

 

[Marymead]

So you are pretty sure the Full Code was applied since the CPS spoke of the parts i) Evidential and ii) Public Interest. ??

Interesting to have your view, (what this is all about after all?). I do just feel that the Threshold statement "not all the evidence is available at the time when he or she must be released from custody unless charged" (Section 5.3) is what might have been required and used here. jmo

 

[LegallyBrunette]

A little selection from this article :


Footage of the man fitting Mark Bridger's description was taken at 1.45pm on Tuesday by a Channel 4 News team

He was allegedly seen scrambling down a bank near where April went missing.

Carwen Sheen, 36, told the Daily Mirror: "I've told the police what I saw. It's up to them now."

The father of the second woman, who had been chatting with her friend when the man allegedly appeared, said: "My daughter and a friend saw a man, they know him well. He was coming down a shale bank with a black bag. He was next to the river. She has been interviewed by the police since and told them everything she saw."

Powys county council confirmed that Mr Bridger attended a parents’ evening at the primary school in Machynlleth, where his own daughter and April are pupils.
Witnesses have described seeing Mr Bridger driving “erratically” through the estate where April lived an hour before she was abducted.

A source said that at one point Mr Bridger’s Land Rover blocked the one-way road in front of the primary school, preventing another parent from getting away.

Another witness said he saw him driving through the Bryn-y-Gog estate, where April lives, at 6pm on Monday.

“He was driving erratically through Bryn-y-Gog,” said the witness. “He nearly hit my mate at 6pm. I heard other people say he was driving up and down the road.”

At 9.15am on Tuesday, Mr Bridger seemed “agitated” as he drove out of Ceinws, the hamlet where he lived, according to a motorist, David Richards. “I was turning into Ceinws off the main road and crossing the bridge,” he said. “He wanted to go out to the main road in his vehicle. He was flustered, he wanted to get going. He couldn’t wait for me to cross the bridge, he couldn’t get out of that road quick enough. He was very agitated. There was only him in the Land Rover that I could see.

“He was crashing the gears, making a hell of a noise. He went out to the junction, then stopped and there was an almighty bang. There was something wrong with the vehicle.”

Mr Bridger’s Land Rover was seized by police later that day at a repair garage after Mr Bridger had been arrested.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...ours-to-quiz-Mark-Bridger-over-abduction.html

 

[LegallyBrunette]

So you are pretty sure the Full Code was applied since the CPS spoke of the parts i) Evidential and ii) Public Interest. ??

Interesting to have your view, (what this is all about after all?). I do just feel that the Threshold statement "not all the evidence is available at the time when he or she must be released from custody unless charged" (Section 5.3) is what might have been required and used here. jmo

Yep, Full Code, otherwise CPS wouldn't mention 'public interest'

In a related matter, a man has been charged with the murder of missing Irish vet, Catherine Gowing, up to a few hours ago only her burned out car has been found.
The statement uses the same terminology, sufficient evidence and in the public interest to charge. Not threshold.

Speaking at North Wales Police HQ in Colwyn Bay, Karen Dixon, district Crown Prosecutor, said: &#8220;The CPS has been in close contact with North Wales Police as their investigation into Catherine Gowing&#8217;s disappearance has developed.

'We can now confirm that, having carefully carried out a detailed review of the evidence gathered so far, we have concluded that there is sufficient evidence to charge Clive Sharpe with the murder of Catherine Gowing and it is in the public interest to do so.

'Accordingly we have authorised North Wales Police to charge the defendant and he will appear before Mold Magistrates tomorrow morning.
'This is an extremely serious criminal charge and the police investigation continues.'
Miss Gowing's burned-out car found in abandoned in a country lane, police confirmed yesterday

Ms Gowing, 37, has been missing since she failed to arrive at work at the Evans Veterinary Practice in Mold, North Wales, on Monday.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...lice-car-torched-abandoned.html#ixzz29r6pn3JA
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[PADDYWHACK]

1. He is a father, he surely would have empathy for April's family.

2. He can still tell police his movements from after the parents' meeting until he was arrested at 3.30pm the next day. There are witnesses at least for the time he dropped off the car. And other things can be verified in different ways, phone records, neighbours, there are ways if your story is genuine.
I'm thinking too to have a look at the map again, depending where he went there would be some CCTV from commercial areas.

None of the above explains why he wasn't out with the family looking for April, with all his outdoor skills he should have been one of the ringleaders and right in his element with his swiss army knife, camo gear and waterproof daks.:moo:

Does he have Internet/TV/Radio/Phone, or does he use these facilities at someone else's house? If he has a mobile, did he have any credit on it to make calls, or even a signal.

If his car was playing up, how long would it take to walk to help in the search, was he sober?

The police can certainly check with the electricity board to see if electricity was being used in his home during the times he was missing. Smart meters have this facility and the electricity board know when you've boiled a kettle to when you turned your lights on.

Did he spend the night in bed with a married woman?

Who knows.

 

[Inge Jones]

If he told them that and it was credible, why would they still be searching all the other areas?

Well I am sure most murderers lie and some may invent accident stories. I don't think we would want the police being satisfied just cos a perp gives a credible account. Those first couple of days they really did focus intensely on a stretch of river.

 

[veggiefan]

Yes, a possibility of an accident. It would certainly account for MB looking upto the heavens and crying when asked if understood the charges. Cold blooded killers don't do things like that. Such a gesture is a dawning of realisation and a private pleading of god help me.

Ian Huntley, convicted of the murder of two 10-year old girls, "told Detective Constable Jonathan Taylor: "I was the last person to see them or to speak to them", and burst into tears, the jury was told."

Vincent Tabak, who confessed to the killing of Joanna Yeates "wept in the dock today as a jury was shown harrowing images of Joanna Yeates's strangled body".

"Douglas Cooper, 24, cried in the dock as a jury convicted him of attempting to murder the baby."

I'm afraid there are more cases like these and I don't think you can generalise.

MB's tears could just as easily come from the realisation that he is facing the rest of his life in prison if found guilty. As I've said before, were he not guilty, I would have expected outrage and protestation of his innocence, not tears.

And I don't think there's any chance that an accident was involved. If it was, confessing would have resulted in a prison tariff of between 2 and 4 years (with parole possible in half that time) for causing death by dangerous driving, instead of a child murder tariff of 25-30 years (possibly a whole-life sentence) before parole is even considered.

The CPS will have had good reason for agreeing to a murder charge, even though we don't know what that reason is.

 

[Elainera]

Below is a paraphrasing of what a searcher said, can't give you a link,

...volunteer searchers were given a full intel brief -they were surprised to get this but impressed that the police are intent on finding her. There is more to the story, a big part has been withheld from MSM..... however the main effort continues to be finding little April - and rightly so.

This is most intriguing! I hope we will know one day.

 

[Inge Jones]

But Veggiefan, I don't think the people you have named were "cold blooded" killers. Huntley was unbalanced but not clinically a psychopath, Tabak if he was to be believed killed while overcome by a weird sexual urge, Cooper probably flew into a sudden rage.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

Ian Huntley, convicted of the murder of two 10-year old girls, "told Detective Constable Jonathan Taylor: "I was the last person to see them or to speak to them", and burst into tears, the jury was told."

Vincent Tabak, who confessed to the killing of Joanna Yeates "wept in the dock today as a jury was shown harrowing images of Joanna Yeates's strangled body".

"Douglas Cooper, 24, cried in the dock as a jury convicted him of attempting to murder the baby."

I'm afraid there are more cases like these and I don't think you can generalise.

MB's tears could just as easily come from the realisation that he is facing the resy of his life in prison if found guilty. As I've said before, were he not guilty, I would have expected outrage and protestation of his innocence, not tears.

And I don't think there's any chance that an accident was involved. If it was, confessing would have resulted in a prison tariff of between 2 and 4 years (with parole possible in half that time) for causing death by dangerous driving, instead of a child murder tariff of 25-30 years (possibly a whole-life sentence) before parole is even considered.

The CPS will have had good reason for agreeing to a murder charge, even though we don't know what that reason is.

The Ian Huntley story you quoted, I believe is incorrect. He said that to a journalist and looked unmoved while saying it, it was at that point that the police were onto him. I haven't looked at the others. Were they real, or fake tears?

 

[Adorabella]

Two questions police would put to MB

1. Did you do it
2. If yes to 1. - where is she.
If no to 1. what is your alibi and explanation.

Would it take 4 days to answer?

If MB's answer was no to Q1, perhaps it took him only a moment to answer and the police did not believe him. Perhaps he has absolutely no verifiable alibi. What if he did not use his 'phone or switch it on, was not seen by his neighbours and just went home, ate something, watched a dvd and went to bed?

Interestingly, my husband and I watched Hitchcock's 'The Wong Man' earlier. Fascinating to see how difficult it is to prove your innocence without an alibi (depending on definitive forensics, of course) and how easy it is to be seen to be guilty because of circumstantial evidence. Or when the police really want to pin the crime on a specific person and will do anything they can, the evidence of which then gets approval from the CPS to go to court - Colin Stagg comes to mind.

Also, think that Paddy has an interesting point in whether the abductor was an opportunist and just took the first child that he could get into his vehicle, whether April was specifically targeted and/ or whether there could have been two or more victims if the young witnesses had also decided to get in the vehicle with her.

It's not getting any clearer is it?

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Does he have Internet/TV/Radio/Phone, or does he use these facilities at someone else's house? If he has a mobile, did he have any credit on it to make calls, or even a signal.

If his car was playing up, how long would it take to walk to help in the search, was he sober?

The police can certainly check with the electricity board to see if electricity was being used in his home during the times he was missing. Smart meters have this facility and the electricity board know when you've boiled a kettle to when you turned your lights on.

Did he spend the night in bed with a married woman?

Who knows.

He has a car, most cars have radios, don't believe he wouldn't have a TV, he had enough $ to rent the cottage, the car wasn't playing up too much to get to mechanic next day, hopefully he was sober at the parents' meeting, don't think that little gem would have escaped the dailies.
If his mobile was out of range there are neighbours, oldies usually have a landline.
And if the reason was the last one, wouldn't you tell Police or rather face life in prison.


Police have been conducting &#8216;cell-site analysis&#8217; of Bridger&#8217;s mobile phone in the hope of tracking his exact movements on the night April vanished, after she was lured into a vehicle by a mystery man as she played with friends.Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...me-searched-hunt-continues.html#ixzz29rAY32Yv
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

 

[Marymead]

Yep, Full Code, otherwise CPS wouldn't mention 'public interest'

In a related matter, a man has been charged with the murder of missing Irish vet, Catherine Gowing, up to a few hours ago only her burned out car has been found.
The statement uses the same terminology, sufficient evidence and in the public interest to charge. Not threshold.


Yes, read this too, but what confuses me is that the Code does state "if both parts of the Threshold Test are used prosecutors MUST APPLY (my caps!) the Public Interest stage of the Full Code Test based on the information at the time".

So the Public Interest part would be necessary even if they used the Threshold wouldn't it ?

Goodness, the more I read the more confused I am .

 

[Inge Jones]

That's the thing, Adorabella. He is quite likely guilty, in the majority of cases the police get the right person. BUT there is still a not negligible chance of him being the wrong person altogether. Because of this I really do wish people would not start hurling abuse and stones at prison vans before the conviction. If he is innocent, he'll be going through hell already, without having to deal with the premature condemnation of his own community.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

But Veggiefan, I don't think the people you have named were "cold blooded" killers. Huntley was unbalanced but not clinically a psychopath, Tabak if he was to be believed killed while overcome by a weird sexual urge, Cooper probably flew into a sudden rage.

Isn't Veggie's point that whatever they were, the crimes were committed.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

A little selection from this article :


Footage of the man fitting Mark Bridger's description was taken at 1.45pm on Tuesday by a Channel 4 News team

He was allegedly seen scrambling down a bank near where April went missing.

Carwen Sheen, 36, told the Daily Mirror: "I've told the police what I saw. It's up to them now."

If you look at the search parties out that day, most of them were dressed like that.

The father of the second woman, who had been chatting with her friend when the man allegedly appeared, said: "My daughter and a friend saw a man, they know him well. He was coming down a shale bank with a black bag. He was next to the river. She has been interviewed by the police since and told them everything she saw."

As someone else said, he had dropped off his car, had he also emptied the car to take the stuff home? No black bag has been found?

Powys county council confirmed that Mr Bridger attended a parents’ evening at the primary school in Machynlleth, where his own daughter and April are pupils.
Witnesses have described seeing Mr Bridger driving “erratically” through the estate where April lived an hour before she was abducted.

Child abductors don't normally draw attention to themselves. Once again, faulty vehicle.

A source said that at one point Mr Bridger’s Land Rover blocked the one-way road in front of the primary school, preventing another parent from getting away.

Once again, faulty vehicle may not start. Park it for ease of manoeuvring.

Another witness said he saw him driving through the Bryn-y-Gog estate, where April lives, at 6pm on Monday.

Visiting his children?

“He was driving erratically through Bryn-y-Gog,” said the witness. “He nearly hit my mate at 6pm. I heard other people say he was driving up and down the road.”

Faulty vehicle. Explains why he took it to the garage.

At 9.15am on Tuesday, Mr Bridger seemed “agitated” as he drove out of Ceinws, the hamlet where he lived, according to a motorist, David Richards. “I was turning into Ceinws off the main road and crossing the bridge,” he said. “He wanted to go out to the main road in his vehicle. He was flustered, he wanted to get going. He couldn’t wait for me to cross the bridge, he couldn’t get out of that road quick enough. He was very agitated. There was only him in the Land Rover that I could see.

Anxious and peeved that his vehicle was on its last legs?

“He was crashing the gears, making a hell of a noise. He went out to the junction, then stopped and there was an almighty bang. There was something wrong with the vehicle.”

An almighty bang. Something wrong with his vehicle, or did he hit something?

Mr Bridger’s Land Rover was seized by police later that day at a repair garage after Mr Bridger had been arrested.

The car obviously needed fixing.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

That's the thing, Adorabella. He is quite likely guilty, in the majority of cases the police get the right person. BUT there is still a not negligible chance of him being the wrong person altogether. Because of this I really do wish people would not start hurling abuse and stones at prison vans before the conviction. If he is innocent, he'll be going through hell already, without having to deal with the premature condemnation of his own community.

Especially when the van is empty and only on a 'recce run' to the court.

 

[Inge Jones]

He has a car, most cars have radios, don't believe he wouldn't have a TV, he had enough $ to rent the cottage, the car wasn't playing up too much to get to mechanic next day, hopefully he was sober at the parents' meeting, don't think that little gem would have escaped the dailies.
If his mobile was out of range there are neighbours, oldies usually have a landline.
And if the reason was the last one, wouldn't you tell Police or rather face life in prison.

People who like to play computer games or listen to music wouldn't necessarily bother to turn on a radio or TV. And why would anyone bother to call and tell him about April unless they thought he may know something - we don't know exactly when the idea of MB being involved was hatched in anyone's mind.