Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #6 *M. Bridger guilty*

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I keep coming back to the dependencies in timings. All reports suggest AJ disappeared after 7pm - yet this call to godmother, she says was made at 6.50. Yes I suppose it is possible she may have glanced at a clock.
 
Insp.Dots said:
I thought as we are 'getting so stuck in a rut'. I'd have a trawl back through the limited reports we have to work on.

London's Evening Standard newspaper has quotes from April's godmother, Mair Raftree, about the impact on the family:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

BBM


I am quite possibly over-analyzing but I thought it may bring some new idea's so please just bear with me, or ignore the whole thing if you prefer!!

Why did Coral ring God-Mother before the police?
To get some kind of advise before phoning the police, shock?

Maybe Coral at that point knew it was Mark, and something had been said by him or someone that she didn't really want getting out?

Put yourself in MR shoes MOST would say..."who cares whats happened just ring the Police they need to know!!" Or something similar!

Why so I think this possible?
BECAUSE MR also said "She called me first because she was in a state of shock"

Why did she feel the need to say that?

Maybe she was just shocked, or MR herself thought it odd Coral rang her first. Or Something had happened/been said and MR 'instinctively' explained the reason for Coral ringing her as she thought it may be questioned.

I may be way off the mark...I just thought I'd try putting myself in these peoples shoes and think about the reactions to things I'd have.

I believe that 99% of Mothers would "immediately" ring the police, No-one would stop that even if over-reaction was thought, Instinct would make you virtually scream for help!
For the record I don't blame Coral in 'ANYWAY' for what has happened to April, I have purely bought this up as it is in the MSM and I'm trying to open my mind to ALL possibilities.

Thoughts on this please?
Click to expand...

BBM

If I couldn't find my daughter, eg she was out playing then when I looked again, she wasn't I'd phone around her friends houses, my mum (lives a mile away), my partner then my dad, in that order. Then the police.

As a parent I don't think you would automatically think the worst case scenario - it may flash through your head of course - but you'd likely push it to one side and deal with the more palatable options first.

If I had been told my daughter had been seen willingly getting into a light coloured van, I'd call the old bill faster than you could say 999.

If I'd been told my daughter had been seen getting into a vehicle belonging to an acquaintance of mine I would be driving to their home, calling local people - do they have the acquaintance's phone number, look out for the vehicle etc . I don't think I would be panicking too much unless I already had suspicions about this acquaintance. Obviously the next move would be the police.

Would I be calling my best friend who lives 18 miles away? Not until all those other calls had been made first.

We might need to watch ourselves here in case we slip too close to sleuthing the parents ;)

EDIT: I should add, I thought through that scenario with my 11 year old in mind. At 5 years old she would only have been able to disappear from the back garden, in which case I would call the police immediately. The 11 year old is allowed to the park across the road. Or rather, was allowed to the park. Once I did have to call friends to see if she was at their houses, due to me checking the park and finding she wasn't there. She is now confined to the back garden again :)
 
Amber34 said:
This is something I have been pondering for a while.

I do have an entire scenario worked out in my head where diminished responsibility could be entered as a plea. I don't think it is something that even the very best criminal lawyer would depend upon unless they had compelling supporting evidence.
Click to expand...

Alcohol and drugs are not a defence unless they are literally forced down your neck.
Diminished responsiblity as a defence risks the accused being locked up indefinitely. If successful it can reduce murder to manslaughter, but the usual imprisonment is life and may be in a mental hospital.

IF the accused is guilty the best thing he could have done was tell Police exactly what happened, the longer it goes on the more severe it will be for him.
 
Insp.Dots said:
Yes, I agree...but as a Mother, in total panic would you worry about being a nuisance at that point? I wouldn't.
I'm glad you mention the 'snatched' part, I picked up on that as well.
And the 7yr old girl didn't go running home saying anything. It wasn't until CJ went calling that the 'kidnap/snatch/abduction' came into it. Presumably said by an adult, for their own reasons!

I am of the firm belief that there was some kind of fall-out or words said before this point, why else would CJ put 'a family friend's' name forward.

If all was well and the general chat came up as 'hey Mark's got a LHD' or similar you'd think they would then be relieved in some small way.

I guess it's another part of the puzzle that we are not going to know fro some time, if ever!!:banghead:
Click to expand...

Yes you're right, who cares about being a nuisance in these circumstances. It must have been the shock and panic that made her call her friend first.

I think something happened at the parents' evening, even though I seem to remember reading (need to find link) that MB and April's parents hadn't come across eachother there. Or perhaps something happened at that birthday party (only sketchy details available).

It seems such a leap from allowing their girl to go on a crabbing trip with MB, and perhaps allowing her to play in his car with friends (though this is being denied by others) to suspecting him of snatching.
 
LegallyBrunette said:
If you read my post you would see I wasn't having a go at SW. It isn't up to the 19 year old son to facilitate a relationship with a 46 year old father.
Click to expand...

Yes, sorry I think it was also they way I wrote....I was trying to get across the abuse he was getting off social networks and the media.:truce:
 
Insp.Dots said:
I thought as we are 'getting so stuck in a rut'. I'd have a trawl back through the limited reports we have to work on.

London's Evening Standard newspaper has quotes from April's godmother, Mair Raftree, about the impact on the family:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

BBM


I am quite possibly over-analyzing but I thought it may bring some new idea's so please just bear with me, or ignore the whole thing if you prefer!!

Why did Coral ring God-Mother before the police?
To get some kind of advise before phoning the police, shock?

Maybe Coral at that point knew it was Mark, and something had been said by him or someone that she didn't really want getting out?

Put yourself in MR shoes MOST would say..."who cares whats happened just ring the Police they need to know!!" Or something similar!

Why so I think this possible?
BECAUSE MR also said "She called me first because she was in a state of shock"

Why did she feel the need to say that?

Maybe she was just shocked, or MR herself thought it odd Coral rang her first. Or Something had happened/been said and MR 'instinctively' explained the reason for Coral ringing her as she thought it may be questioned.

I may be way off the mark...I just thought I'd try putting myself in these peoples shoes and think about the reactions to things I'd have.

I believe that 99% of Mothers would "immediately" ring the police, No-one would stop that even if over-reaction was thought, Instinct would make you virtually scream for help!
For the record I don't blame Coral in 'ANYWAY' for what has happened to April, I have purely bought this up as it is in the MSM and I'm trying to open my mind to ALL possibilities.

Thoughts on this please?
Click to expand...

I think there is a lot of speculation around the details of this case because probably for operational reasons a lot has been withheld.
It's like looking at the back of a tapestry, it won't make sense until you turn it over.
 
Just thinking how bereft we are of news in this terrible case that now we're comparing notes about how often our recycling bins go out :)
FTR, some local councils here use the same type of black tubs as at MB's house, ours uses the very large otto bin which goes out fortnightly, alternates with 'green' bin for grass, prunings etc.
We don't have to separate recycling now, bottles, cans and paper all go in the same bin.
Trivia.
 
Amber34 said:
BBM

If I couldn't find my daughter, eg she was out playing then when I looked again, she wasn't I'd phone around her friends houses, my mum (lives a mile away), my partner then my dad, in that order. Then the police.

As a parent I don't think you would automatically think the worst case scenario - it may flash through your head of course - but you'd likely push it to one side and deal with the more palatable options first.

If I had been told my daughter had been seen willingly getting into a light coloured van, I'd call the old bill faster than you could say 999.

If I'd been told my daughter had been seen getting into a vehicle belonging to an acquaintance of mine I would be driving to their home, calling local people - do they have the acquaintance's phone number, look out for the vehicle etc . I don't think I would be panicking too much unless I already had suspicions about this acquaintance. Obviously the next move would be the police.

Would I be calling my best friend who lives 18 miles away? Not until all those other calls had been made first.

BBM
We might need to watch ourselves here in case we slip too close to sleuthing the parents ;)

EDIT: I should add, I thought through that scenario with my 11 year old in mind. At 5 years old she would only have been able to disappear from the back garden, in which case I would call the police immediately. The 11 year old is allowed to the park across the road. Or rather, was allowed to the park. Once I did have to call friends to see if she was at their houses, due to me checking the park and finding she wasn't there. She is now confined to the back garden again :)
Click to expand...

Yes, I agree I in NO WAY wanted to put any more than that into debate. I was only actually bringing it up to pick up any thoughts on the reason MB took April in the first place and of course that CJ named him to Police. So tried to keep it within the realms of MSM reports.

Thanks for your thoughts on how you'd react I think it's good to get a consensus on these things as we can then try and put ourselves into the 'emotion' of the situation. Hope that makes sense!!:blushing:
 
uk_sleuth said:
hhmmmm.....

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/crim...task-says-detective-leading-hunt-8194055.html

This could be interpreted as...... a van or a 4x4 IMO

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2012/oct/02/police-april-van-video

why the mention of a Land Rover specifically??
Click to expand...

I agree, personally I think the child MH was uncertain of name of car/van and that was her first description to police.
At that point or in the coming hours CJ gave MB's name or maybe the LHD was questioned and someone said...'MB has a LHD Land-rover.
The police I think hesitated slightly, waiting for the specialist officers to get more from MH, where with great patience and care they would have pulled what she remembered WITHOUT putting the words into her head. at such a young age picture cards and jigsaws can be used to start then say for an example pictures of 50 vehicles where they would see which she chose that looked closest to MB's. This takes time as the LE have to be very very careful that SHE gives the information and they don't put ANY suggestions into her head. I've mentioned this before I think but I know a bit as my son was a child witness at 8yrs. We were taken to a specially designed unit with cameras everywhere, (for court use) I wasn't allowed in the room, it was just a social worker and specialist officer doing the questioning, I could watch through a one-way mirror. They use all sorts of things to help, toys drawings, specially made jigsaws. All designed to get as much information as they can but at the same time make a firm and fair case for court. It is also worth mentioning, any questioning during the case will usually be done by video link to a place such as above.
 
LegallyBrunette said:
Clive Sharpe photos. Also his S40 Volvo. Click on thumbnails to enlarge a bit.

View attachment 27642

View attachment 27643


View attachment 27644
Click to expand...

I don't see it apart from the age maybe to be honest. But I noted that in MB's case, every time the LE were questioned by reporters about the involvement of anyone else they very firmly said they were not looking for anyone else.

Boy do I hope they do have the right man....doesn't bear thinking about if not!!:furious:
 
LegallyBrunette said:
I think there is a lot of speculation around the details of this case because probably for operational reasons a lot has been withheld.
It's like looking at the back of a tapestry, it won't make sense until you turn it over.
Click to expand...

Excellent comparison (sorry can't think of the right word!)
I also didn't realize how little they tell the Family, it must be SOOooo frustrating!
 
Insp.Dots said:
I don't see it apart from the age maybe to be honest. But I noted that in MB's case, every time the LE were questioned by reporters about the involvement of anyone else they very firmly said they were not looking for anyone else.

Boy do I hope they do have the right man....doesn't bear thinking about if not!!:furious:
Click to expand...

I posted the photos because Tulip thought that MB and C Sharpe looked alike in the drawing by court artist.
 
I know I can't copy and paste but an interesting post came saying witnesses had seen MB in Aberystwyth 'asleep' in his car on Monday afternoon, another was said to have seen him in a Bow Street Pub and one of the timings would have conflicted with the 'blackbag' witness.
Has anyone else seen this or found anything. I'm trawling through the search bars now. Probably all circumstancial/hearsay....though I did watch a local news report that week that showed Police searching Bins in an Aberystwyth park.
Can't find anything now so it's possibly been pulled! :(
 
LegallyBrunette said:
I posted the photos because Tulip thought that MB and C Sharpe looked alike in the drawing by court artist.
Click to expand...

That was in response to someone elses post, in which was said that they looked alike. I saw a similarity in the court drawings, but that could be because of the artist's style. Should have made that a bit clearer sorry.

I also don't think there is any link. But will have a look at Sharpe's pic.

Edited to add: I don't see any similarity between both men.
 
Insp.Dots said:
I know I can't copy and paste but an interesting post came saying witnesses had seen MB in Aberystwyth 'asleep' in his car on Monday afternoon, another was said to have seen him in a Bow Street Pub and one of the timings would have conflicted with the 'blackbag' witness.
Has anyone else seen this or found anything. I'm trawling through the search bars now. Probably all circumstancial/hearsay....though I did watch a local news report that week that showed Police searching Bins in an Aberystwyth park.
Can't find anything now so it's possibly been pulled! :(
Click to expand...

Oh dear, that would be very interesting if true.
 
LegallyBrunette said:
I posted the photos because Tulip thought that MB and C Sharpe looked alike in the drawing by court artist.
Click to expand...

Yes, I wasn't criticizing HONEST :please:
Was worth showing, Thank you, I just can't see the likeness.

ps: I think you may have taken some of my posts as a personal rant at you, and I'm truly sorry if you have.

I know I have done this before. It is such a frustrating case that I think sometimes are posts are written when feeling 'passionate/emotive' and possibly taken the wrong way. We also have several countries input so sometimes what is one phrase or term in one country can be something different in another. JMO

I think you bring some great posts and thoughts to the group and that's what makes it worth taking part!!:please:
 
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