Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #6 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Marymead]

It's quite easy: in another tab or window open the article you want to reference and simply copy the url in the address bar at the top and paste it into your reply here in the forum.

Thank you, I'll attempt it !!!!

 

[Marymead]

So the car followed the children to the area they were playing. They weren't playing and just came upon the car. That would rule out another person being involved.

Not sure it "followed" the children, but if it was involved it could have been cruising around looking.
Should make a small correction to what I wrote - in one report the OAP said the car 'drove briskly to the town'.
Poor chap, can imagine his anguish at not acting on what can now be seen as suspicious, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

 

[BritsKate]

Child killers return to the scene of their crime, but they also take part in the searches for the abducted child. In a press report someone said that MB asked how the search was going. I hope that person noted if there was any concern in his voice, or whether it was just mentioned casually.

Link for these assertions please? I've been studying child homicide with an emphasis on filicide for the better part of 25 years and I've never read that. Much appreciated.

It is rather common for murderers to attempt to assess the state of a case through law enforcement though - regardless of killer 'typology'. And it is common, I know, for serial killers to return to crime scenes or dumping grounds. But in cases of child homicides stranger perpetrators are rare and then the motive is often sexual and the child very quickly murdered and disposed of.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

Link for these assertions please? I've been studying child homicide with an emphasis on filicide for the better part of 25 years and I've never read that. Much appreciated.

It is rather common for murderers to attempt to assess the state of a case through law enforcement though - regardless of killer 'typology'. And it is common, I know, for serial killers to return to crime scenes or dumping grounds. But in cases of child homicides stranger perpetrators are rare and then the motive is often sexual and the child very quickly murdered and disposed of.

If you go back a few posts you will find the link I put up to the research papers now used by the police in the USA.

 

[veggiefan]

Does anyone know if there are any moors around Machynlleth?

Perhaps not moors as the steepness of the terrain and the hard rock tends to send water gushing down into the valleys rather than staying on the surface, but I posted a picture of the area to the north of Machynlleth earlier, where the searching has been concentrated. There are dense forests at lower levels and higher up there are uninhabited uplands, abandoned quarries, disused slate mines, caves, potholes and slate screes. There is no doubt that searching this region is very difficult indeed.

South of Machynlleth much of the land is sparsely populated, hilly and given to sheep farming, but less than an hour's drive north you are into the heights of Snowdonia and areas that would be described as wild moor:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/350926

 

[Marymead]

hello, I do apologize because of my silly question
I´m from Germany,so I´ve read the only guy arrested is in prison?
if so, who is taking care of the little April?
if she´s still alive, he has not said where she is and none is with her?
thanks
Heidi Stein, mother of abducted Dirk Schiller, still missing

My heart goes out to you. I hope and pray you find your boy and have peace.

 

[BritsKate]

If you go back a few posts you will find the link I put up to the research papers now used by the police in the USA.

This one? If so, I believe these old, tired eyes are missing it.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res11yid5...toprotectyourchildfrombeingsexuallyabused.pdf

 

[Uchiki Kuri]

Yes, so true, and he had the nerve to be dressed like he could have been part of the search, while brazenly and mockingly, in broad daylight, ridding himself of evidence.

That's quite a subjective interpretation of what he might have been doing.

The way he was dressed is normal for the area.

 

[Uchiki Kuri]

Perhaps not moors as the steepness of the terrain and the hard rock tends to send water gushing down into the valleys rather than staying on the surface, but I posted a picture of the area to the north of Machynlleth earlier, where the searching has been concentrated. There are dense forests at lower levels and higher up there are uninhabited uplands, abandoned quarries, disused slate mines, caves, potholes and slate screes. There is no doubt that searching this region is very difficult indeed.

South of Machynlleth much of the land is sparsely populated, hilly and given to sheep farming, but less than an hour's drive north you are into the heights of Snowdonia and areas that would be described as wild moor:

http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/350926

There is extensive moorland to the southeast of the town, accessible via the mountain road to Dylife and Llanidloes, around Pumlumon, part of the Cambrian Mountains. Pictures on the Pumlumon link and here give a good idea of their size. The Glaslyn nature reserve, 8 miles from Machynlleth, is part of it.

 

[frommer]

First time poster here. Having read through just about every post on here I think I'm now more confused than ever and sometimes it is worth going back to the first reports to get a sense of what was being said before things get corrupted or taken out of context.
In that respect I find Jigzy's post #660 quite interesting particularly in the Wrexham link:

1. Initially there were doubts cast about whether the child was actually missing on social media. Being an old dinosaur and not on fb or twitter myself, does anyone know who might have been saying this?
2. The quote from Claire Williams reads like a police statement but I think that she may just be a local resident retweeting a police statement. Would be interesting to know when she (CW) "told us" this because it was not until 22.38 that the police appear to have made their first statement.
3. Found Claire Williams on Twitter and on Monday 1st she tweeted: "Anyone out looking for April they are handing out photos at the leisure centre and apparently it is a white connect van".
4. I was trying to find at which LE conference they first gave details of the vehicle, something like it was a "light coloured van, possibly a Connect, or a Land Rover, possibly LHD". This pretty much tells me that they knew who they were looking for and gave out details of his vehicles. I was wondering, if MB saw this on Monday night he might have panicked and done something he had not originally intended.

Couldn't find the video I was looking for but found this one which includes some interesting interviews from Tuesday morning I think. Look especially at 2.07 for a different slant on how long AJ was out playing; at 3.30 though I didn't catch quite what he was saying but he may be their next door neighbour(?); and what does the guy in the red jacket say at 4.02?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=5nCNgLLV7pY&NR=1

 

[cluciano63]

Does anyone really think LE is basing an entire murder case on the words of a 7-year old?

No matter what led them to the suspect, what they found while investigating him seems to be the cause for changing the case from missing/kidnapped to murder. That is not so easily done without hard evidence, especially in the case of a child.

Here in the US, we currently have a number of cases with children missing for a very long time, suspects or POI's named, some even in jail or prison for charges "related" to the disappearance of the child, yet still no murder charges, although no one honestly believes these children are alive. One that did get charged with murder (and convicted) is the father of Bianca Jones, as there were hits by a cadaver dog, witness statements of beatings the night before, and possibly some blood evidence. But generally, it is very difficult to make the leap to murder in the case of a child, who does not have an electronic trail to suddenly stop, as with missing adults. And even those adult cases do not often result in murder charges, unless there is a clear crime scene.

 

[Inge Jones]

Clucianio63, I think this means MB has probably admitted some level of involvement. Otherwise it would have made no sense that police told press their searches were being informed by "information given to them by the suspect". If he had no involvement whatsoever, he would have had to keep saying "I have no idea where she is" and there would have been no leads to follow.

Where the police may disagree with MB is about stuff like was the ride in his car abduction or a quick ride with intent to take her back after 5 mins. Did she die in his presence or leave his company alive? Did he murder her or was her death and accident? Did he dispose of a body etc etc

 

[greenpalm]

First time poster here. Having read through just about every post on here I think I'm now more confused than ever and sometimes it is worth going back to the first reports to get a sense of what was being said before things get corrupted or taken out of context.
In that respect I find Jigzy's post #660 quite interesting particularly in the Wrexham link:

1. Initially there were doubts cast about whether the child was actually missing on social media. Being an old dinosaur and not on fb or twitter myself, does anyone know who might have been saying this?
2. The quote from Claire Williams reads like a police statement but I think that she may just be a local resident retweeting a police statement. Would be interesting to know when she (CW) "told us" this because it was not until 22.38 that the police appear to have made their first statement.
3. Found Claire Williams on Twitter and on Monday 1st she tweeted: "Anyone out looking for April they are handing out photos at the leisure centre and apparently it is a white connect van".
4. I was trying to find at which LE conference they first gave details of the vehicle, something like it was a "light coloured van, possibly a Connect, or a Land Rover, possibly LHD". This pretty much tells me that they knew who they were looking for and gave out details of his vehicles. I was wondering, if MB saw this on Monday night he might have panicked and done something he had not originally intended.

Couldn't find the video I was looking for but found this one which includes some interesting interviews from Tuesday morning I think. Look especially at 2.07 for a different slant on how long AJ was out playing; at 3.30 though I didn't catch quite what he was saying but he may be their next door neighbour(?); and what does the guy in the red jacket say at 4.02?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=5nCNgLLV7pY&NR=1

The guy in the red jacket at 4:02 says a pair of shoes were found, and that being a pair made it quite unusual.

 

[PADDYWHACK]

This one? If so, I believe these old, tired eyes are missing it.
http://mysite.verizon.net/res11yid5...toprotectyourchildfrombeingsexuallyabused.pdf

No, not that one, its a PDF

 

[jigzy]

There is extensive moorland to the southeast of the town, accessible via the mountain road to Dylife and Llanidloes, around Pumlumon, part of the Cambrian Mountains. Pictures on the Pumlumon link and here give a good idea of their size. The Glaslyn nature reserve, 8 miles from Machynlleth, is part of it.

Glaslyn or Dylife in that order would definitely be the place I'd head to. The road from Mach to Llanidloes (passing near Glaslyn and Dylife on the way) would be known to him since he worked at the abattoir at Dolwen near Llanidloes.

The rough track to Glaslyn is a dreadfully surfaced road suitable only for off road vehicles. I spent a late summer Saturday there once and saw no-one. At night, certainly no-one apart from wildlife.

Here's an aerial view of Glaslyn (blue lake in Welsh). It's an upland glacial lake - not at all on a valley floor as such. Dylife, where once a huge leadmining community lived and worked, is on the right. Scroll out to see proximity to Mach:
http://goo.gl/maps/X1wJ6

 

[jigzy]

In addition to my last post, this is a 'streetview' of Glaslyn from the track/road. Although it looks like a flat plain, it's actually high in the Cambrian range:

http://goo.gl/maps/wVrmQ

 

[Praxis]

Couldn't find the video I was looking for but found this one which includes some interesting interviews from Tuesday morning I think. Look especially at 2.07 for a different slant on how long AJ was out playing; at 3.30 though I didn't catch quite what he was saying but he may be their next door neighbour(?); and what does the guy in the red jacket say at 4.02?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=5nCNgLLV7pY&NR=1

Don't know how accurate the account the guy gives at 2:10, he says CJ was pleased with how well both her daughters were doing in school; she's only got one daughter in that school plus a son, I believe.

It sounds as if he's implying AJ returned with CJ from the parents meeting and was only gone out to play 10 minutes. That doesn't really add up with the supposed swimming lesson and surely she'd only have arrived not long over to the garages area before CJ went back looking for her, doesn't leave much time for playing out on the so-called treat?

 

[jigzy]

First time poster here. Having read through just about every post on here I think I'm now more confused than ever and sometimes it is worth going back to the first reports to get a sense of what was being said before things get corrupted or taken out of context.
In that respect I find Jigzy's post #660 quite interesting particularly in the Wrexham link:

1. Initially there were doubts cast about whether the child was actually missing on social media. Being an old dinosaur and not on fb or twitter myself, does anyone know who might have been saying this?
..........

When I first read about it on a friend's fb status (at 8.27pm Mon Oct 1st) urging people to 'share', I must admit that I hesitated and didn't post to my status, even though my friend was unlikely to post something false, I was still unsure if it was true. This was my first experience of finding out about something major via social networking rather than by the Media. The majority of my fb friends in this area DID spread the word via social network immediately.

In fairness the social network moved fast, many people taking a gamble with spreading the word before the LE and Media released info. Anyone in this area was on the lookout for a van immediately as the fb status said 'put into' a van.

The hesitation/doubt, I think, came from the Media such as the Wrexham link I put up, as at that time many of the reports were not based on LE info. Later the 'unconfirmed' bit had 'strikethrough' applied to it, as it became more factual.

jmo.

 

[Clio]

First time poster here.

Hi & welcome

4. I was trying to find at which LE conference they first gave details of the vehicle, something like it was a "light coloured van, possibly a Connect, or a Land Rover, possibly LHD". This pretty much tells me that they knew who they were looking for and gave out details of his vehicles. I was wondering, if MB saw this on Monday night he might have panicked and done something he had not originally intended.

Snipped for space. The first time the police mentioned that the vehicle might be something like a Ford Connect or a Landrover was at the Press Conference at noon on Tuesday 2nd Oct. In earlier statements that day, all they said was that the vehicle was a light coloured "van".

 

[jigzy]

The press conference may well have been at lunchtime on Tuesday 2nd Oct, but the BBC (maybe BBC Wales) DEFINITELY mentioned at breakfast time (UK local time), that the LE were saying that the child went in through the driver's side or that it could be a left hand drive. I distinctly remember as my other half said how unlikely it would be for it to be a left hand drive. We then went to work, so it certainly was betwen 7 and 8.15am that we heard this.


IMHO, it was these first reports on the BBC (possibly only on BBC Wales?) of the 'left hand drive' that made him make his move with the LRD at approx 9.15am.