Deceased/Not Found UK - April Jones, 5, Machynlleth, Wales, 1 Oct 2012 #6 *M. Bridger guilty*

[Adorabella]

I think it's irresponsible to be fathering more children when the best he's managed with his 19 year old is to run into him at the local pub.

If it's a black and white situation and he is the person who created that situation then yes, I agree. However, we have NO idea of how and why....and also, if it was down to him, perhaps the shock of not being able to see his children made him grow up and take responsibility for those children he had subsequently.

 

[Inge Jones]

Sorry if I appear a bit dense, but if AJ was 5 in June 2012, you say there is no legal requirement for her to have started school until September 2012.

But you then go on to say that she will have been attending school for a year already.

What makes you think the parents will have asked for her to be admitted early?

Well I don't know current admission procedures, because my own children are grown up now and have no children of their own. But when they were at school, any child who was already 5 by September would have normally been just starting their second school year (doesn't mean that they were at school the whole year previously, but that this is the age for going up to the next class - the one after "reception").

Our school year begins in early September, and those schools with enough room will allow any child who will become 5 within the next 12 months to start in September. Other schools with less capacity will only allow children to start at the beginning of the term (semester) in which they will become 5. As someone pointed out, the child is not legally obliged to start school until *after* their 5th birthday, but it is a rare parent who does not start their child as soon as the school allows.

Assuming April had not only just turned 5 in the days before her abduction, I would have expected her to have just started her 2nd year of full time school.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Sorry if I appear a bit dense, but if AJ was 5 in June 2012, you say there is no legal requirement for her to have started school until September 2012.

But you then go on to say that she will have been attending school for a year already.

What makes you think the parents will have asked for her to be admitted early?

Just to stick my oar in now date of birthday is know. When my children were in Primary, the one whose birthday was in May started part-time the September before then went full time in the September...

It sounds then like April may have done similar to this.

Some schools do start children full time at slightly different times but I don't imagine she'd have been full time for a whole year before, so this meeting was probably to re-assure how she'd settled into full time school. MOO:twocents:

 

[LegallyBrunette]

No, it's standard practice to start them in a reception class in the September after they are 4. Reception is a cross between pre-school and school, so it eases them in gently. Parents would have to request to start their child later. My daughter's birthday is at the end of June and her dad was dead against her starting school that September so we looked at starting her later. We were told that legally, we would be fine to do that but she would not start in reception, but go straight in at year 1, so she was with her peer group.

Conversely, I used to teach pre-school children with special educational needs. If they were going to enter main stream education, we would often keep them at pre-school a little longer than their peers and they would enter school at the correct legal age, giving them a little more time for diagnosis and any treatments they were undergoing as well as several social benefits and to comply with the requests of the local primary schools.

FYI - In Australia the school year starts after Australia Day (26 Jan) and finishes about a week before Christmas.
Children starting school will be 5 years old or turn 5 before June 30 in the year they start.
Some schools used to have an intake after the mid year holidays but that is rare now.
When the child starts school their class is called Kindergarten, they are in that for one year then go to 1st class and so on, same as UK.
My dau-in-law told me that the Reception class she taught outside London is the same as Kindergarten here. She was trained at Australian university, Bachelor of Education (Primary) and taught here before the 4 years in UK.

 

[TulipaNoir]

Even I a victim of paedophiles for many years am capable of giving anyone the benefit of the doubt, but after looking at what IS available, my doubt has all but gone.

Some people can speak from a position of experience, while others who cannot comprehend the horror search for innocence in inexplicable crimes.

The trial will be interesting, I shall return to the forum when it starts. It has been a pleasure and this is a fine forum doing good work.

I am really sorry for what you have been through and are still going through. And I hope your tormentors have been brought to justice.

Your input here is appreciated and I hope you don't feel that you should leave this forum until trial.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

If it's a black and white situation and he is the person who created that situation then yes, I agree. However, we have NO idea of how and why....and also, if it was down to him, perhaps the shock of not being able to see his children made him grow up and take responsibility for those children he had subsequently.

His son, when asked were they shocked at MB's arrest, said, 'he's nothing to do with us, he's never been in my life, I only met him properly this year. I've seen him a few times at the pub when he's been there and I was there.'

This lad lives on the same estate, he is 19 almost 20, his brother is older. Who needs to make an effort, the child or the parent?
Once the child is over 18 the custodial parent cannot control who they see or don't see.

 

[Cherwell]

Who needs to make an effort, the child or the parent?
Once the child is over 18 the custodial parent cannot control who they see or don't see.

True, but do not underestimate the effect that a hostile parent can have in shaping a child's attitude.

 

[Amber34]

Are we both talking about the same thing, pre-school, kindy uniforms, not infants and primary.

ALL schools in Australia have uniforms too, unlike the USA. The difference between us and the UK is that we call our non-government schools 'private schools' -which includes Catholic, Anglican etc and non-denominational, whereas in the UK your 'private schools' are called 'public schools'
In Australia a public school is the government run school - which has no fees.

Somebody here posted that April's photo may have been from NURSERY school, because some of them wear uniforms. My interpretation of nursery school is - day care, pre school, kindy, whatever you want to call it, not Infants school that the child starts at 4+.

Uniform in pre-schools and nurseries is a growing trend here, although they usually stick to just having a logo t-shirt and sweatshirt and no set 'bottom half' and almost certainly no summer dresses.

This may stem from the fact many independent pre-schools are being actively encouraged to join forces with the local school, not least because each nursery age child is entitled to a significant amount of government funding which the school would then be entitled to

 

[Marymead]

Bevan said his vehicle was being examined. A major part of the police inquiry has been identifying known sex offenders in the area and the 46 year old man was known to the police.

This is quoted from one of the earliest police press conferences - not my words.

 

[veggiefan]

No, it's standard practice to start them in a reception class in the September after they are 4. Reception is a cross between pre-school and school, so it eases them in gently. Parents would have to request to start their child later.

The Admissions Booklet for Powys Schools quite clearly states that admission that early is only at the request of the parents and is granted only if "the school has sufficient resources of staff, accommodation and equipment".

I just question whether parents who are not working would particularly wish their child to start school earlier than is legally required. However, the matter is very peripheral to the case.

 

[Cherwell]

Bevan said his vehicle was being examined. A major part of the police inquiry has been identifying known sex offenders in the area and the 46 year old man was known to the police.

This is quoted from one of the earliest police press conferences - not my words.

Sorry, but that's a paraphrase, not a quote. The way it reads is strongly suggestive that "the 46 year old man" is a "known sex offender" - are you absolutely sure that this is what was said?

FWIW, I don't believe paedophilia played any part in this.

I just question whether parents who are not working would particularly wish their child to start school earlier than is legally required. However, the matter is very peripheral to the case.

Yes, why is everyone giving this so much attention? Is it just the "glowing report"? As I said upthread, the original comment was probably in Welsh anyway, so what people are quibbling over is likely no more than a casual paraphrasing.

 

[Cherwell]

OK, I've found it - it's from the Guardian blog, so it is a reporter who is quoted, and she has paraphrased the press interview, putting her own spin on it.

My colleague Sandra Laville was also listening to DS Bevan speak to Sky News, and brings more details:

Detective superintendent Reg Bevan said they had been searching for the man since last night and knew that his vehicle matched the description of the one April was said to get into.

He said: "The man has come into the inquiry as a result of initial actions last night. He was on foot he was walking on the side of the road he was detained by our officers...we have recovered his vehicle."

Bevan indicated on Sky News the man was known to police, and suspicions had been raised very early on about his involvement. He said the 46 year old was a local man but would not be drawn on whether he was a known sex offender.

Bevan said his vehicle was being examined. A major part of the police inquiry has been identifying known sex offenders in the area and the 46 year old man was known to the police.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

 

[TulipaNoir]

Sorry, but that's a paraphrase, not a quote. The way it reads is strongly suggestive that "the 46 year old man" is a "known sex offender" - are you absolutely sure that this is what was said?

FWIW, I don't believe paedophilia played any part in this.



Yes, why is everyone giving this so much attention? Is it just the "glowing report"? As I said upthread, the original comment was probably in Welsh anyway, so what people are quibbling over is likely no more than a casual paraphrasing.

Maybe we can find the interview and actually hear what DS Bevan said.

"Man known to police

My colleague Sandra Laville was also listening to DS Bevan speak to Sky News, and brings more details:

Detective superintendent Reg Bevan said they had been searching for the man since last night and knew that his vehicle matched the description of the one April was said to get into.

He said: "The man has come into the inquiry as a result of initial actions last night. He was on foot he was walking on the side of the road he was detained by our officers...we have recovered his vehicle."

Bevan indicated on Sky News the man was known to police, and suspicions had been raised very early on about his involvement. He said the 46 year old was a local man but would not be drawn on whether he was a known sex offender.

Bevan said his vehicle was being examined. A major part of the police inquiry has been identifying known sex offenders in the area and the 46 year old man was known to the police.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

'... identifying known sex offenders ... known to the police...' does not say that he was known to the police as a sex offender, could be for something totally different.

 

[Dirk Gently]

Maybe we can find the interview and actually hear what DS Bevan said.

"Man known to police

My colleague Sandra Laville was also listening to DS Bevan speak to Sky News, and brings more details:

Detective superintendent Reg Bevan said they had been searching for the man since last night and knew that his vehicle matched the description of the one April was said to get into.

He said: "The man has come into the inquiry as a result of initial actions last night. He was on foot he was walking on the side of the road he was detained by our officers...we have recovered his vehicle."

Bevan indicated on Sky News the man was known to police, and suspicions had been raised very early on about his involvement. He said the 46 year old was a local man but would not be drawn on whether he was a known sex offender.

Bevan said his vehicle was being examined. A major part of the police inquiry has been identifying known sex offenders in the area and the 46 year old man was known to the police.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

'... identifying known sex offenders ... known to the police...' does not say that he was known to the police as a sex offender, could be for something totally different.

Being "known to the police" simply means that he has a record or "prior form" of some sort. I was stopped by the police in my car last year and one of their first questions to me was whether a search of my details would indicate that I was "known to them", i.e. had a criminal record. Someone has already suggested that MB had a prior record for assault so this would suffice in terms of him being "known" to the police.

 

[LegallyBrunette]

True, but do not underestimate the effect that a hostile parent can have in shaping a child's attitude.

Maybe so, but a parent can still make an effort, it's up to the child/young adult whether they accept it. MB's son didn't sound bitter or negative about his father in that interview, he just stated facts. Never said 'oh, he used to come around but we didn't want anything to do with him etc'.

 

[Cherwell]

MB's son didn't sound bitter or negative about his father in that interview, he just stated facts.

I think it would be unfair to infer anything from that interview, the lad was clearly in shock. He was as dazed as a rabbit caught in headlights. Another despicable piece of "journalism". :furious:

 

[LegallyBrunette]

Maybe we can find the interview and actually hear what DS Bevan said.

"Man known to police

My colleague Sandra Laville was also listening to DS Bevan speak to Sky News, and brings more details:

Detective superintendent Reg Bevan said they had been searching for the man since last night and knew that his vehicle matched the description of the one April was said to get into.

He said: "The man has come into the inquiry as a result of initial actions last night. He was on foot he was walking on the side of the road he was detained by our officers...we have recovered his vehicle."

Bevan indicated on Sky News the man was known to police, and suspicions had been raised very early on about his involvement. He said the 46 year old was a local man but would not be drawn on whether he was a known sex offender.

Bevan said his vehicle was being examined. A major part of the police inquiry has been identifying known sex offenders in the area and the 46 year old man was known to the police.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/blog/2012/oct/02/april-jones-missing-five-live

'... identifying known sex offenders ... known to the police...' does not say that he was known to the police as a sex offender, could be for something totally different.

'would not be drawn on......' is the bit that bothers me. Although, being known for that particular type of offence - does not automatically mean that it's an offence against children. Not that it's great whatever it is.

 

[Dirk Gently]

'would not be drawn on......' is the bit that bothers me. Although, being known for that particular type of offence - does not automatically mean that it's an offence against children. Not that it's great whatever it is.

I know what you mean but it just sounds like standard operating procedure to me. The police couldn't possibly comment on a question like that without compromising the investigation and any subsequent legal proceedings.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

No, it's standard practice to start them in a reception class in the September after they are 4. Reception is a cross between pre-school and school, so it eases them in gently. Parents would have to request to start their child later. My daughter's birthday is at the end of June and her dad was dead against her starting school that September so we looked at starting her later. We were told that legally, we would be fine to do that but she would not start in reception, but go straight in at year 1, so she was with her peer group.

Conversely, I used to teach pre-school children with special educational needs. If they were going to enter main stream education, we would often keep them at pre-school a little longer than their peers and they would enter school at the correct legal age, giving them a little more time for diagnosis and any treatments they were undergoing as well as several social benefits and to comply with the requests of the local primary schools.

reception is like prep class in Australia (well Victoria at any rate). Children here start either at 4 or 5 depending on when their birthday is, if their 5th birthday is before April they can start that year, if not they start in the year they turn 6.

 

[aust amateur slueth]

FYI - In Australia the school year starts after Australia Day (26 Jan) and finishes about a week before Christmas.
Children starting school will be 5 years old or turn 5 before June 30 in the year they start.
Some schools used to have an intake after the mid year holidays but that is rare now.
When the child starts school their class is called Kindergarten, they are in that for one year then go to 1st class and so on, same as UK.
My dau-in-law told me that the Reception class she taught outside London is the same as Kindergarten here. She was trained at Australian university, Bachelor of Education (Primary) and taught here before the 4 years in UK.

each state is different here, theres no universal rule.

In victoria we have kindergarten then prep then year 1.