GUILTY UK - Ashley Wadsworth, 19, Canadian, murdered 1st Feb 2022, Chelmsford, Essex *Arrest*

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The Crown Court at Chelmsford

Daily Courtroom List for Friday 04 February 2022

FINAL 1

Court 6 - sitting at 09:45 am


His Honour Judge Morgan

For Preliminary Hearing
T20227017 SEPPLE Jack A 42MZ1110722 NESXM CPS

CTL: 03/08/22 FT Defendant via CVP HMP Advocates via CVP or can attend court
 
Dotta said:
I wonder if she as a Mormon came to the UK for a "mission"to convert people.
Mormons travel abroad with this aim, but usually men.
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I honestly don’t think so, and I feel like it would’ve been mentioned. As far as I know, Mormon missions are a very coordinated affair, you’d have to be called to serve after meeting x requirements, and you are told where you’re going and when you’re going, don’t get to pick. You’re also expected to learn the language of the place you’re going to. You only go away after being trained and they always go in groups and are expected to proselytise as if it was a full time job.
 
Smkd said:
I honestly don’t think so, and I feel like it would’ve been mentioned. As far as I know, Mormon missions are a very coordinated affair, you’d have to be called to serve after meeting x requirements, and you are told where you’re going and when you’re going, don’t get to pick. You’re also expected to learn the language of the place you’re going to. You only go away after being trained and they always go in groups and are expected to proselytise as if it was a full time job.
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Ok.
It was just a fleeting thought.
She may have seen him as a challenge to fix.
 
Dotta said:
Ok.
It was just a fleeting thought.
She may have seen him as a challenge to fix.
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Oh yeah, definitely. I don’t think she was on an official mission there, but I do think he may have been her personal mission and thought he could be “fixed” through religion.
I also think that something went south real quick, since it seems like she was suddenly talking about getting tickets and going back, even though she had over 3 months of her visa left. I imagine that if everything was going amazing, she would’ve tried to stay until the very last day!
 
Fear of abandonment is a very common phobia. She may have had every intention of coming back and he might have been sure that she wouldn't. Unfortunately that in particular is also a common psychosis. I expect there were red flags galore but she was just too innocent to see them and no one wiser got the opportunity for one reason or another.
 
Everything is relevant.
Religion shapes our behaviour.
Maybe she wanted to help him and thought naively that she could.
Was she so much in love with an online boyfriend to travel into unknown?
 
It has to be said but Mormons do not agree with "relations" before marriage.. but she was living with him since November?
 
I feel like a lot of people and especially non Americans see Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses interchangeably but they're different.

Mormons have a pretty atypical mythology for a Christian church but at the practical level they're very much like any other church, your family will still love you even if you're a sinner or even if you leave the church.

Jehovah's Witnesses have more normal Christian mythology but more atypical implementation like no holidays including kids birthdays and real psychological penance for sin.
 
PrairieWind said:
I don't think her religion is relevant to this murder.
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I would tent to disagree on this occasion, I think. If she thought he really needed help and her religion for her is a source of happiness, why wouldn’t she try to convert him? I am in no way saying this to disparage her or her religion at all. I hope it’s not coming across as that. Her religion is clearly very important to her and if she was sure that it meant a ticket to happiness and heaven for him, she would certainly want to share that with him, and it’s something that is very much encouraged in Mormonism.
Mormons are discouraged to marry outside of the church, and “flirt to convert” is not uncommon. We can only speculate but it may have been a source of tension between them and a dealbreaker for her if he was not respectful of her religion and boundaries
 
evilwise said:
I feel like a lot of people and especially non Americans see Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses interchangeably but they're different.

Mormons have a pretty atypical mythology for a Christian church but at the practical level they're very much like any other church, your family will still love you even if you're a sinner or even if you leave the church.

Jehovah's Witnesses have more normal Christian mythology but more atypical implementation like no holidays including kids birthdays and real psychological penance for sin.
Click to expand...

There's certainly a marked difference in the UK, the two wouldn't be very interchangeable in England! Although I would agree with prior Sleuthers that I don't think religion plays a part in this horrible incident, I think the fact it coincides with her leaving plans is too big to ignore.
 
Smkd said:
I would tent to disagree on this occasion, I think. If she thought he really needed help and her religion for her is a source of happiness, why wouldn’t she try to convert him? I am in no way saying this to disparage her or her religion at all. I hope it’s not coming across as that. Her religion is clearly very important to her and if she was sure that it meant a ticket to happiness and heaven for him, she would certainly want to share that with him, and it’s something that is very much encouraged in Mormonism.
Mormons are discouraged to marry outside of the church, and “flirt to convert” is not uncommon. We can only speculate but it may have been a source of tension between them and a dealbreaker for her if he was not respectful of her religion and boundaries
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Besides, it was clearly stated in Press that she tried to convince him.
 
Dotta said:
"She needed help"...

https://kelowna10.com/friend-remembers-always-laughing-ashley-wadsworth-but-she-needed-help
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That article seems to suggest that after meeting someone from Utah in Vernon last March she became a mormon, and by November she was in the UK attempting to convince a man she met online to become a mormon too.

I'm curious whether they were on the same wavelength. She got to know his family, perhaps he was thinking marriage while she was thinking social experiment of conversion to mormonism? Something clearly went wrong when she decided to return to Vernon.

"Daniel Seaman, a student at the Mormon-sponsored Brigham Young University (BYU) in Utah, met Wadsworth while doing community service for the church in Vernon early last year. He said she had been "looking for faith" and was baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in March.
...

“She just said that she needed help,” Seaman said, adding she had been reaching out through different social media accounts because "her boyfriend didn’t want to talk with us a lot of the time.”
​
https://kelowna10.com/friend-remembers-always-laughing-ashley-wadsworth-but-she-needed-help
 
otto said:
That article seems to suggest that after meeting someone from Utah in Vernon last March she became a mormon, and by November she was in the UK attempting to convince a man she met online to become a mormon too.

I'm curious whether they were on the same wavelength. She got to know his family, perhaps he was thinking marriage while she was thinking social experiment of conversion to mormonism? Something clearly went wrong when she decided to return to Vernon.

"Daniel Seaman, a student at the Mormon-sponsored Brigham Young University (BYU) in Utah, met Wadsworth while doing community service for the church in Vernon early last year. He said she had been "looking for faith" and was baptized into The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in March.
...

“She just said that she needed help,” Seaman said, adding she had been reaching out through different social media accounts because "her boyfriend didn’t want to talk with us a lot of the time.”
​
https://kelowna10.com/friend-remembers-always-laughing-ashley-wadsworth-but-she-needed-help
Click to expand...

Does he mean he didn’t want her to talk to them and she was using alternative accounts to reach out? Ugh

Also
“But Seaman said Wadsworth had recently been reaching out to him and friend groups across North America, who were putting her in contact with people in England "that could help her and work with the authorities."

Uhhhhh that’s scary.
 
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