UK UK - Claudia Lawrence, 35, Chef, York University, 18 March 2009 #6

[MummyRatcliffe]

I have said before so sorry to repeat but I think Claudia told DO who she spent all night with
and its likely DO knows him. Given that DO admits he does a bit of workplace bantering I think he would have no problem bantering up Claudias disclosure of an all night session with this man and I suspect this did not go down well especially if the man was in a relationship or married.
Having got the response he did DO probably realised he had put his foot in it and it was more than likely that the s*** was going to hit the fan. Thats why he didnt offer Claudia a lift as she would have more than likely had a go at him and taking a completely different route would mean he would have distanced any contact with her until they both arrived at work
I think the sighting of the car with the door open (reported as either the passenger or driver door) and a man and a women appearing to be arguing is a valid sighting and this is possibly the man who Claudia had previously spent the night with. He was travelling that route (either to work or study) with the knowledge that Claudia would be walking to work and intented to confront Claudia about her disclosure seeing her between her house and costcutters (which is why she didnt appear on their cctv) he picked her up (knowing him she would willingly get in the car) on the journey he confronted her ( or continued the argument which had started when Claudia rang him from the public phone box ( as Eyeswideopen suggested)the prev afternoon regarding what she had told DO and I suspect she would told him to stop the car Ive had enough Im getting out which is why the car appears part on road part on verge I suspect the the verbal exchange continued as she exited the car and crossed the road. Impulsively jumped out the car leaving his door open and continued an escalating argument. The argument that spiralled out of control with Claudia possibly being struck unconcious and rolling down the bank.I notice that the location of the sighting of the two people arguing was on some sort of winding junction enabling the man to to just turn down into it and place Claudia in the car. In a panicked state he possibly strangled her in the car he then drove to the River Ouse waters edge and disposed of the body.

This is just my opinion of events..
Apologises I went to hit save draft and instead it appears to have posted grrhh.
In finishing
I beleive it is possible CL could have left by her front door the cctv camera in the house opposite was prone visual problems with condensation on the window and given the passing traffic on that road its possible that she could have not been clearly identified
I my opinion DO did not reveal the mystery man to the police in the first instance as he realised that it could be seen that it his actions that triggered the tragic events of the day..
I thank you for Eyeswideshut excellent sleuthing re a possible public phonebox being used that afternoon enabling me to fill in a possible piece of important info .. If this man was the man Claudia spent the night with its possible she contacted via the public phone because she didnt want her number appearing on his phone ( because in a relationshipship or married) or she didnt have his number at all and was trying to contact him through his workplace.
The siting of two people arguing on University road and the search dogs tracing Claudias scent to the River Ouse waters edge completes a very credible scenario for me
These are just my opinions of what may have happened only time will tell how things really did play out that day

This theory is well presented and very plausible IMO. What about the other POIs though? Do you feel they are involved in the cover up or the police got it wrong with them? Thanks

 

[Andyboy]

But how would he know she told do, especially that quickly as she was probably killed the next day

 

[keep-it-real]

This theory is well presented and very plausible IMO. What about the other POIs though? Do you feel they are involved in the cover up or the police got it wrong with them? Thanks

We could have a huge debate them.. A group like that are so antipolice anyway that they would take offence if you asked then is they brushed their teeth that morning so let alone asking about any drug/criminal activities ,extramarital affairs or missing people they operate on a completely level to other people in society. It wouldnt be just this case this group would stay shtum on its anything that police wouldcome knocking for . They would be more than happy to create a situation (by not talking)where the focus was on them even if it wasnt them just so they could think they are wasting police time pressures nothing to them.. it would be a laugh to them. ITS THE BROTHERHOOD.
My only feeling is that theres is a possible connection with DO and MS.. MS worked at the college and knew Claudia giving her lifts and socialising. So if the DO told MS about Claudias night with the mystery man MS could have been jealous.. Basically following the same events of the day that I outlined (but without the previous days phone call). The police after all did search His home a few times.
I still go back to my original theory tho .. and we still need a name and if DO knows it and wont give it up we need the make and reg of that car..

 

[Popejohn3]

BBM, if the perp has ever been arrested or had a job where DNA and fingerprints are required then they would be caught when running the DNA through their database and then would have a name. MOO

You are right but let’s not talk about that there is always a chance the police have erased your details by accident !!! Lol

 

[Popejohn3]

E

This theory is well presented and very plausible IMO. What about the other POIs though? Do you feel they are involved in the cover up or the police got it wrong with them? Thanks

was the car left hand drive?

 

[keep-it-real]

But how would he know she told do, especially that quickly as she was probably killed the next day

E
Sorry Andyboy I have a mind fog when reading your post could you possible rephase I dont think Im reading it clearly

E

wad the car left hand drive?

wad the car left hand drive?

I cant find any other details of the car other than it was red..and we definately how no leads on the driver. The reports vary as to wether its the passenger door or drivers door was open it doesnt really make a big difference.. because she could have jumped out the car leaving the door open or slammed it shut.. likewise he (the driver) could have done the same

 

[Popejohn3]

I have said before so sorry to repeat but I think Claudia told DO who she spent all night with
and its likely DO knows him. Given that DO admits he does a bit of workplace bantering I think he would have no problem bantering up Claudias disclosure of an all night session with this man and I suspect this did not go down well especially if the man was in a relationship or married.
Having got the response he did DO probably realised he had put his foot in it and it was more than likely that the s*** was going to hit the fan. Thats why he didnt offer Claudia a lift as she would have more than likely had a go at him and taking a completely different route would mean he would have distanced any contact with her until they both arrived at work
I think the sighting of the car with the door open (reported as either the passenger or driver door) and a man and a women appearing to be arguing is a valid sighting and this is possibly the man who Claudia had previously spent the night with. He was travelling that route (either to work or study) with the knowledge that Claudia would be walking to work and intented to confront Claudia about her disclosure seeing her between her house and costcutters (which is why she didnt appear on their cctv) he picked her up (knowing him she would willingly get in the car) on the journey he confronted her ( or continued the argument which had started when Claudia rang him from the public phone box ( as Eyeswideopen suggested)the prev afternoon regarding what she had told DO and I suspect she would told him to stop the car Ive had enough Im getting out which is why the car appears part on road part on verge I suspect the the verbal exchange continued as she exited the car and crossed the road. Impulsively jumped out the car leaving his door open and continued an escalating argument. The argument that spiralled out of control with Claudia possibly being struck unconcious and rolling down the bank.I notice that the location of the sighting of the two people arguing was on some sort of winding junction enabling the man to to just turn down into it and place Claudia in the car. In a panicked state he possibly strangled her in the car he then drove to the River Ouse waters edge and disposed of the body.

This is just my opinion of events..
Apologises I went to hit save draft and instead it appears to have posted grrhh.
In finishing
I beleive it is possible CL could have left by her front door the cctv camera in the house opposite was prone visual problems with condensation on the window and given the passing traffic on that road its possible that she could have not been clearly identified
I my opinion DO did not reveal the mystery man to the police in the first instance as he realised that it could be seen that it his actions that triggered the tragic events of the day..
I thank you for Eyeswideshut excellent sleuthing re a possible public phonebox being used that afternoon enabling me to fill in a possible piece of important info .. If this man was the man Claudia spent the night with its possible she contacted via the public phone because she didnt want her number appearing on his phone ( because in a relationshipship or married) or she didnt have his number at all and was trying to contact him through his workplace.
The siting of two people arguing on University road and the search dogs tracing Claudias scent to the River Ouse waters edge completes a very credible scenario for me
These are just my opinions of what may have happened only time will tell how things really did play out that day

Where did the police dog pick up the scent from !
If she was driven to the river would the Police have STARTED from the river bank then dogs turned inland to a parking spot?

 

[Andyboy]

I cant find any other details of the car other than it was red..and we definately how no leads on the driver. The reports vary as to wether its the passenger door or drivers door was open it doesnt really make a big difference.. because she could have jumped out the car leaving the door open or slammed it shut.. likewise he (the driver) could have done the same

I mean if claudia told do the name of the man she spent the night with and this sent said mystery man into a violent rage, how would he have found out that claudia had told him that quickly, as she was probably dead the next day, if d o told m s would that really upset him that much, he must have known claudia had a pretty active social life I would think

 

[keep-it-real]

But how would he know she told do, especially that quickly as she was probably killed the next day

I mean if claudia told do the name of the man she spent the night with and this sent said mystery man into a violent rage, how would he have found out that claudia had told him that quickly, as she was probably dead the next day, if d o told m s would that really upset him that much, he must have known claudia had a pretty active social life I would think

Thanks for that Andy I kept reading your do as do and not DO (lol) In the latest tv programme DO says that the night she spent with the mystery man was mon 16th he had the conversation with her the next morning 17th so its possible that sometime on the later on the 17th or 18th Claudia didnt show up to work on the 19th so DO had some time to have a converstation with the mystery man disclosing what CL had told him. Could this man have been, a work collegaue or friend of, a student, a teacher an adminsitrator at the Uni or a tradesman working onsite at the college.. lots of people on campus visit the canteen.
Dont forget to that that rucksack possibly Claudias was sited on a path near the Uni and I found an article in the Times date the 2nd June 2019 that said '
Sources close to the police investigation have revealed that her basic Samsung D900 handset connected to a mast next to York University, where she was employed, when her manager called and left a voice message'. I wonder what time that handset actually connected to that mast?
I dont put for MS forward in my original scenario but I thought he was worth mentioning for the reasons given

 

[keep-it-real]

Where did the police dog pick up the scent from !
If she was driven to the river would the Police have STARTED from the river bank then dogs turned inland to a parking spot?

Fustratingly the only account I have regarding the search with the dogs is from the texts from the search handlers friend who said that the rescue dog was given her scent from her clothing and it traced it to the waters edge.. Another dog was sent in seperately and traced the scent to exactly the same spot. The search should then have moved downstream but the commanding office ignored this as he believed they was searching for a missing person. The search handler was extremely upset about this.. Im sure you can understand why

 

[Andyboy]

Thanks for that Andy I kept reading your do as do and not DO (lol) In the latest tv programme DO says that the night she spent with the mystery man was mon 16th he had the conversation with her the next morning 17th so its possible that sometime on the later on the 17th or 18th Claudia didnt show up to work on the 19th so DO had some time to have a converstation with the mystery man disclosing what CL had told him. Could this man have been, a work collegaue or friend of, a student, a teacher an adminsitrator at the Uni or a tradesman working onsite at the college.. lots of people on campus visit the canteen.
Dont forget to that that rucksak alledgey Claudias was found on a path near the Uni and I found an article in the Times date the 2nd June 2019 that said '
Sources close to the police investigation have revealed that her basic Samsung D900 handset connected to a mast next to York University, where she was employed, when her manager called and left a voice message'. I wonder what time that handset actually connected to that mast?
I dont put for MS forward in my original scenario but I thought he was worth mentioning for the reasons given

In fairness you are not alone with the m s idea, police took his and his mother's house apart and dug up his garden, must have had a decent reason for doing that

 

[ClaraBoo]

Was his the car with the Hazards reflecting in the window as Alleyman walks into Heworth Place. Did he see Alleyman come out of Claudias house or from her front door. Police have denied hazards saying they are only a faulty street light but I have checked the area and there is no street light capable of reflecting on window in Heworth place as Alleyman passes it.

I've been re-watching and thinking over the dark man and light man CCTV from the evening and morning. I'm thinking that maybe this had nothing to do with CL disappearing. It doesn't make sense for dark man to be the perp and be there in the evening and then again in the morning. It seems more likely to me that he is a partner/stalker of CL who wanted to see if she was home that evening and the next morning and hasn't come forward for a variety of reasons e.g. married, was stalking her and didn't want to make himself a suspect. What are everyone else's thoughts in what dark man was doing? MOO

My thoughts are that this was a 'practice run'. This was well thought out, planned and premeditated. They were running through what they were going to do in the morning.

 

[Andyboy]

My thoughts are that this was a 'practice run'. This was well thought out, planned and premeditated. They were running through what they were going to do in the morning.

Maybe they couldn't do it then, too many people and traffic about, called if off until later

 

[keep-it-real]

In fairness you are not alone with the m s idea, police took his and his mother's house apart and dug up his garden, must have had a decent reason for doing that

Thats true .. but as far as Im aware they didnt find anything and they probably had the dogs in there too..
I think she was disposed of in the river 2 seperate search dogs ..scent to exact same spot thats such a strong line that should have been followed..
Did the police co**** u* and a vital piece of was lost (herbody). the river Ouse is tidal so a body would have been swept out to sea.

 

[Andyboy]

Couldn't have found anything significant as was released, turned over his car as well I believe

 

[ClaraBoo]

Maybe they couldn't do it then, too many people and traffic about, called if off until later

It's a possibility. but it looks like they're planning it out. Which is so chilling to think about.

 

[MummyRatcliffe]

We could have a huge debate them.. A group like that are so antipolice anyway that they would take offence if you asked then is they brushed their teeth that morning so let alone asking about any drug/criminal activities ,extramarital affairs or missing people they operate on a completely level to other people in society. It wouldnt be just this case this group would stay shtum on its anything that police wouldcome knocking for . They would be more than happy to create a situation (by not talking)where the focus was on them even if it wasnt them just so they could think they are wasting police time pressures nothing to them.. it would be a laugh to them. ITS THE BROTHERHOOD.
My only feeling is that theres is a possible connection with DO and MS.. MS worked at the college and knew Claudia giving her lifts and socialising. So if the DO told MS about Claudias night with the mystery man MS could have been jealous.. Basically following the same events of the day that I outlined (but without the previous days phone call). The police after all did search His home a few times.
I still go back to my original theory tho .. and we still need a name and if DO knows it and wont give it up we need the make and reg of that car..

I agree completely about the type of people the POI most likely are. Are you suggesting they are innocent but the way they behaved during the investigation put the spotlight on them? I'm more inclined to agree with your theory that MS heard about CL overnight rendezvous and jealousy tipped him over the edge. I'd love to know what the police had on him when he was arrested, obviously not enough to charge and convict but there must have been something.. MOO

 

[Andyboy]

I agree completely about the type of people the POI most likely are. Are you suggesting they are innocent but the way they behaved during the investigation put the spotlight on them? I'm more inclined to agree with your theory that MS heard about CL overnight rendezvous and jealousy tipped him over the edge. I'd love to know what the police had on him when he was arrested, obviously not enough to charge and convict but there must have been something.. MOO

I think Ms is more of a Billy no mates type, probably Couldn't believe his luck that claudia 20 years younger and attractive would be friendly with him, worked for mental health charity and was a volunteer samaritan, I know people like that have snapped before, but he wouldn't be top of my list

 

[Popejohn3]

I have said before so sorry to repeat but I think Claudia told DO who she spent all night with
and its likely DO knows him. Given that DO admits he does a bit of workplace bantering I think he would have no problem bantering up Claudias disclosure of an all night session with this man and I suspect this did not go down well especially if the man was in a relationship or married.
Having got the response he did DO probably realised he had put his foot in it and it was more than likely that the s*** was going to hit the fan. Thats why he didnt offer Claudia a lift as she would have more than likely had a go at him and taking a completely different route would mean he would have distanced any contact with her until they both arrived at work
I think the sighting of the car with the door open (reported as either the passenger or driver door) and a man and a women appearing to be arguing is a valid sighting and this is possibly the man who Claudia had previously spent the night with. He was travelling that route (either to work or study) with the knowledge that Claudia would be walking to work and intented to confront Claudia about her disclosure seeing her between her house and costcutters (which is why she didnt appear on their cctv) he picked her up (knowing him she would willingly get in the car) on the journey he confronted her ( or continued the argument which had started when Claudia rang him from the public phone box ( as Eyeswideopen suggested)the prev afternoon regarding what she had told DO and I suspect she would told him to stop the car Ive had enough Im getting out which is why the car appears part on road part on verge I suspect the the verbal exchange continued as she exited the car and crossed the road. Impulsively jumped out the car leaving his door open and continued an escalating argument. The argument that spiralled out of control with Claudia possibly being struck unconcious and rolling down the bank.I notice that the location of the sighting of the two people arguing was on some sort of winding junction enabling the man to to just turn down into it and place Claudia in the car. In a panicked state he possibly strangled her in the car he then drove to the River Ouse waters edge and disposed of the body.

This is just my opinion of events..
Apologises I went to hit save draft and instead it appears to have posted grrhh.
In finishing
I beleive it is possible CL could have left by her front door the cctv camera in the house opposite was prone visual problems with condensation on the window and given the passing traffic on that road its possible that she could have not been clearly identified
I my opinion DO did not reveal the mystery man to the police in the first instance as he realised that it could be seen that it his actions that triggered the tragic events of the day..
I thank you for Eyeswideshut excellent sleuthing re a possible public phonebox being used that afternoon enabling me to fill in a possible piece of important info .. If this man was the man Claudia spent the night with its possible she contacted via the public phone because she didnt want her number appearing on his phone ( because in a relationshipship or married) or she didnt have his number at all and was trying to contact him through his workplace.
The siting of two people arguing on University road and the search dogs tracing Claudias scent to the River Ouse waters edge completes a very credible scenario for me
These are just my opinions of what may have happened only time will tell how things really did play out that day

I’m curious to know where did the dogs pick up the scent ? I mean surely they cannot follow a car ?

 

[Sarahlou]

Edit- Nevermind dbm