UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

[CaptainNancy]

More details on the Sub Judice rules in the UK:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996657/Contempt_of_court_-_fact_sheet.pdf

"Posting about a case or upcoming trial on social media could amount to contempt of court if it:
• Comments on facts or evidence that will be heard during the trial.
• Mentions the defendant’s previous convictions or character. " (BBM)...

...Your post could mean a trial is delayed or stopped because a fair trial isn’t possible – don’t get in the way of justice being done. Contempt of court can be punished by a fine or up to two years in prison"

 

[JTT]

MSM had all reported that the baby had likely been dead for weeks, e.g. Missing baby ‘dead for several weeks’ before discovery, say police

While date of death has not been released I think it very unlikely that the death occurred after arrest given the above.

Thanks for this. But I am not sure I would interpret it the same way that you do.

From that article: " 'Based on the enquiries we’ve carried out so far, we believe, sadly, the baby had been dead for several weeks before they were found. It’s too early for us to provide a more specific date,' (Det Sup Lewis Basford) said."

So it's cast iron that the police have said that. This is a quote directly attributed to Det Sup Basford.

(This deserves much more weight than unattributed MSM material. Parts of the MSM have said e.g. that the published video shows Mr Gordon shouting and "brandishing" a stick shortly before he was arrested. In one place [here] they have even said that "Gordon can be seen carrying what appears to be a large metal pipe". No quotes have been attributed to the police that support this.)

BUT...Mr Basford says the "several weeks" belief is based on "enquiries we've carried out so far". He does not say it was based on any kind of examination of the body, even a quick pre-postmortem look. I agree it may have been, but he doesn't say it was. (People are speculating about decomposition but "several" means at least three, probably at least four, and even without any decomposition a baby of no more than 4 or 5 weeks usually looks markedly younger than one of 8 weeks. So a quick pre-postmortem look could certainly provide a strong indication, but Mr Basford doesn't say any of this.) The police opinion may have been based on other information - for example the appearance of the baby in video footage up to a certain time and then the baby's non-appearance in video footage after that time, plus statements from people living and working in the area - at the foodbank etc. - or indeed by one or both of the suspects.

 

[JTT]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>

If some women in Britain are legally obliged to notify a pregnancy, what is the statutory basis? Authority of SS to issue an order? A court order? What is the penalty for non-compliance?

 

[JTT]

What firm does Mark Gordon's solicitor Teresa Blades work for? She used to work for Kellys (Kellys Solicitors Brighton | Criminal Defence Specialists), and is still listed as working there by the Law Society, <modsnip>

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

(The following does not refer to Ms Marten or to anyone else in particular.)

If some women in Britain are legally obliged to notify a pregnancy, what is the statutory basis? Authority of SS to issue an order? A court order? What is the penalty for non-compliance?

JMO MOO It would have needed to be court ordered to be a notifiable event particular to that individual *if* the failure to comply could result in legal action being taken -or- the person was so unwell they were deemed unable to be responsible for their own actions (in line with being 'sectioned').

However, like many things, it would cost a lot of money to take that type of tailor made legal action and also unjustifiable as a public expense by the state if the person was voluntarily 'working with' agencies involved.

*to clarify, I am saying this in general terms and not speaking in any way to the situation with CM here.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

More details on the Sub Judice rules in the UK:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/996657/Contempt_of_court_-_fact_sheet.pdf

"Posting about a case or upcoming trial on social media could amount to contempt of court if it:
• Comments on facts or evidence that will be heard during the trial.
• Mentions the defendant’s previous convictions or character. " (BBM)...

...Your post could mean a trial is delayed or stopped because a fair trial isn’t possible – don’t get in the way of justice being done. Contempt of court can be punished by a fine or up to two years in prison"

On this forum it is requested under the T&Cs that you notify admin of any post you take issue with and not attempt to deal with it yourself, so maybe that would be the best way forward if you have concerns?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

(The following does not refer to Ms Marten or to anyone else in particular.)

If some women in Britain are legally obliged to notify a pregnancy, what is the statutory basis? Authority of SS to issue an order? A court order? What is the penalty for non-compliance?

This has useful info. It states that UK legislation does not cover the rights of unborn children but it does explain all the approaches taken:
.

5.20 Pre-birth Child Protection Procedure | Surrey Safeguarding Children Partnership

surreyscb.procedures.org.uk

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

What firm does Mark Gordon's solicitor Teresa Blades work for? She used to work for Kellys (Kellys Solicitors Brighton | Criminal Defence Specialists), and is still listed as working there by the Law Society, but she doesn't work there any more.

self employed maybe?

 

[JuicyLucy]

A funeral director has offered to pay for a service for the two-month old baby of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon found dead in Brighton.

Harry Newington, who runs H J Newington Independent Funeral Directors, made the offer as a way to help mourn the child who was found dead earlier this week.

Mr Newington, 23, said: “Having formerly lived in Hollingdean I know it has been a shock to everyone within the community.

"I have just had a newborn and yesterday we went and laid flowers, there's hundreds of tributes there and I suppose that's because of the emotions that everyone is feeling.

"We wouldn't want her to go out of this world with nothing. We should come together to do something really."

The funeral director had previously helped to clean the graves of Babes in the Woods murder victims Nicola Fellows and Karen Hadaway after a social media appeal from Nicola’s father, Barrie Fellows.

Funeral director offers free service for Constance Marten's baby found in allotment

 

[kittythehare]

That's for when IOPC receive a case. The police in this case say they have referred the case to IOPC because it was "mandatory" (quote) in these circumstances to do so. The basis for the referral being mandatory is unclear.

Statutory guidance | Independent Office for Police Conduct

www.policeconduct.gov.uk

 

[Lolabear]

A funeral director has offered to pay for a service for the two-month old baby of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon found dead in Brighton.

Harry Newington, who runs H J Newington Independent Funeral Directors, made the offer as a way to help mourn the child who was found dead earlier this week.

Mr Newington, 23, said: “Having formerly lived in Hollingdean I know it has been a shock to everyone within the community.

"I have just had a newborn and yesterday we went and laid flowers, there's hundreds of tributes there and I suppose that's because of the emotions that everyone is feeling.

"We wouldn't want her to go out of this world with nothing. We should come together to do something really."

The funeral director had previously helped to clean the graves of Babes in the Woods murder victims Nicola Fellows and Karen Hadaway after a social media appeal from Nicola’s father, Barrie Fellows.

Funeral director offers free service for Constance Marten's baby found in allotment

Surely cm's family will pay for it...I'd blooming well hope so anyway!!

 

[shinimeggie]

Surely cm's family will pay for it...I'd blooming well hope so anyway!!

I think it's less about cost and more about the gesture.

 

[Cherwell]

Do you have a source for that, please?

It was mentioned in the previous thread, but I can't remember the source now. It's to be expected that they would call in a specialist in the circumstances.

 

[iamshadow21]

It was mentioned in the previous thread, but I can't remember the source now. It's to be expected that they would call in a specialist in the circumstances.

Here: Constance Marten smiles at her lover and blows him a kiss in the dock

 

[Cherwell]

Here: Constance Marten smiles at her lover and blows him a kiss in the dock

Thank you - it's quite a way down so:
"A post mortem is due to be carried out by a specialist paediatric pathologist today." (Fri 3 March)

Just seen that @Nikynoo responded a few hours ago - thank you, I missed your post as it was at the bottom of the page!

 

[BaronessWombat]

A lot of funeral service providers in the UK provide funerals for children at no cost.

Children's funerals

If you need to arrange a funeral for a child, whether it’s for a baby lost during pregnancy or a child up to 18, at Co-op Funeralcare our services are free.

www.coop.co.uk

localfuneral.co.uk

localfuneral.co.uk - Find a local, independent funeral director

localfuneral.co.uk

 

[JTT]

I think it's less about cost and more about the gesture.

It's ill advised. If a suggestion made outside the courthouse on the opening day of a trial might be prejudicial, so might it if it's made online shortly after the case becomes sub judice. Many members of Victoria's family are living. Only two have been accused of causing her death, and they are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

It's also distasteful that the company name is mentioned, as well as having a ring of "Look at meee - I give to chariteee". The guy is 23yo, so hopefully someone will have a quiet word.

Having said that, if I lived locally I would attend any memorial service in order to show respect for this poor little girl whose life was cut so horribly short. Even though she wasn't from that area, her death casts a horrible pall there, I'm sure, and I doubt anyone who lives round there feels like having a party right now.

 

[elliefant]

[…]
Mr Newington added that while funerals for newborns are often free, he wanted to fund something further including a hearse and other options not usually included.
[…]

Funeral director offers free service for Constance Marten's baby found in allotment

A funeral director has offered to pay for a service for the two-month old baby of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon found dead in Brighton this week.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[JTT]

self employed maybe?

Yes, could be. Perhaps she came out of retirement to represent MG. I can't find a current listing for her anywhere. She's by no means a conveyancing and shoplifting "specialist".

<modsnip - no links>

 

[bladeaok]

It's ill advised. If a suggestion made outside the courthouse on the opening day of a trial might be prejudicial, so might it if it's made online shortly after the case becomes sub judice. Many members of Victoria's family are living. Only two have been accused of causing her death, and they are presumed innocent until proven guilty.

It's also distasteful that the company name is mentioned, as well as having a ring of "Look at meee - I give to chariteee". The guy is 23yo, so hopefully someone will have a quiet word.

Having said that, if I lived locally I would attend any memorial service in order to show respect for this poor little girl whose life was cut so horribly short. Even though she wasn't from that area, her death casts a horrible pall there, I'm sure, and I doubt anyone who lives round there feels like having a party right now.

I totally agree, it feels incredibly distasteful and like a gross attempt at self promotion!