UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #4

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
We do not know why the other 4 children were removed. Much speculation, but we don't know.

We don't know why SS and the police were so high profile in their determination to locate CM and MG.

We cannot possibly know whether Victoria would have been safe had the car not caught fire and they had successfully escaped.

Undoubtedly the high profile search influenced their decision to go off grid (CM said as much in her police interview) but that was a decision, a choice, and like the judgement of Solomon it could be argued that at the point it became impossible to care for a tiny baby off grid that truly caring parents would have made a different decision. As CM also says she considered.

Also, they took off on ill-advised journeys without clothes for Victoria (presumably lost in the fire) before they knew they were at a centre of a media storm.

For those who have had bad experiences with SS, this is obviously triggering. But SS can't win. The majority of cases we hear about are where they are blamed for not intervening when some poor child has died as a result of cruelty or neglect. I have been involved with projects for and with Care Leavers and children in foster care, and their experiences and aftermath match what I see in the families of 5 friends and acquaintances who adopted children from care: adoption from birth would have helped prevent attachment disorder (after 2 years of supporting a drug addled mother to continue care and then a series of foster placements), from starvation (that the children aged 5 and 7 clearly remembered), from being thrown from a 2nd storey window aged 6, etc.

We just don't know.
The prosecution did mention co-sleeping as one of the reasons. I’ll see if I can if can find the link

ETA link and quote
‘They knew that there was a significant risk of serious harm from co-sleeping because they had been repeatedly told not to do it before.’
 
What a strange question - there is no set look for a woman who has just given birth surely !






View attachment 479234

This was also discussed yesterday:

4:00pm

Mr Gosling said Gordon looked "clean and tidy" and "quite well dressed".

He said Marten looked "scared", "pasty" and "weak".

"She looked like a woman who had just given birth," he said.


 
This was also discussed yesterday:

4:00pm

Mr Gosling said Gordon looked "clean and tidy" and "quite well dressed".

He said Marten looked "scared", "pasty" and "weak".

"She looked like a woman who had just given birth," he said.


I suppose people have a view of what a woman who has just given birth should look like.
 
How long do we have to wait for the prosecution to bring some evidence that the defendants committed manslaughter, allowed the death of a baby, or were cruel?

I'm getting fed up with hearing about them staying in accommodation and then travelling here and there, leaving commentators on another website to discuss CM's footwear.

Much of the evidence so far has been undisputed, otherwise it wouldn't be read out in the form of statements. Everyone accepts MG went into Argos and bought a buggy, but the crown is playing the jury a film showing him going into Argos and buying a buggy. Well that's that proved, then.

But wait - CM found it a bit fiddly to put the buggy up.

If there's a grownup court reporter reading this, maybe they can mention it in their next piece if the judge is wearily asking things like "What does this actually go to, Mr Little?"

It's a statistical fact that it's extremely unlikely that 12 people chosen at random from the catchment area for the Bailey will all be Daily Mail readers, or even 10.
Dragging a baby through the streets in just a nappy, through the coldest months of the year is definitely evidence of cruelty. The baby died due to their ongoing treatmrnt of it, therefore evidence of them allowing her to die. Maybe you're only seeing what you want to see.

Btw, I'm not a daily mail reader!!
 
I suppose people have a view of what a woman who has just given birth should look like.
I double checked the dates on yesterday's evidence vs today

It seems that Mr Gosling saw them 7/8th January (when the baby was still alive)

Mr Rogers said he saw them "mid February" and it's possible that the lump under her coat may have been a deceased baby? :( moo etc

Mr Morris said he saw them 18th February. What I can't understand is Mr Femi-Ola representing MG suggesting Mr Morris got the identities wrong


Both men in mid February were saying that she was slight, walking behind MG, didn't look like she'd just had a baby etc. That's over a month from Mr Gosling seeing them and saying she looked like someone who had just had a baby
 
Gordon appeared in court today wearing a light blue shirt and tie while Marten did not appear. Judge Mark Lucraft, KC, the Recorder of London, told the jury: 'We don't have Ms Marten on the link, a link is available, she may join us.'





 
The prosecution did mention co-sleeping as one of the reasons. I’ll see if I can if can find the link

ETA link and quote
‘They knew that there was a significant risk of serious harm from co-sleeping because they had been repeatedly told not to do it before.’
Fashions change about co-sleeping so maybe I'm just an old dinosaur but in my day co-sleeping was considered to be safe unless the adult concerned was under the influence of drugs or alcohol. Might that be significant?

MOO
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
139
Guests online
1,869
Total visitors
2,008

Forum statistics

Threads
601,834
Messages
18,130,421
Members
231,156
Latest member
Oma-of-9
Back
Top