UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #5

[Alyce]

It is understood that both prosecution and defence counsel still expect the trial to finish on March 8, which was the original time set.

Jury sent home in trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon over baby death

The jury in the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon over the death of their baby has been sent home.

www.theargus.co.uk

 

[Kye Zeeb]

Jury sent away​

Recorder of London Judge Mark Lucraft KC has sent the jury away until Wednesday.

The trial is listed for tomorrow but the jury will not be present as solicitors deal with administrative matters.

(SBM for focus).
Does anyone have any idea what is meant by "administrative matters"?

 

[Pidgy]

(SBM for focus).
Does anyone have any idea what is meant by "administrative matters"?

If the Argus has reported the judge's words correctly, then the administrative matters are to be dealt with by solicitors, not barristers. Is one of the defendants changing their barrister maybe, and their solicitor needs to find a replacement?

But this may be reading too much into the Argus report, because they say "while solicitors in the case deal with administrative matters in court tomorrow", when the solicitors are unlikely to be of the kind who have the right of audience in a crown court.

 

[Pidgy]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
Being a judge is a cushy number for sure, but one has to sympathise with the jurors, perhaps travelling for an hour or more, sitting around in their room for a few hours from 10am, to do basically nothing until after lunch, and then get told they can go home, and see you on Wednesday. But...such is justice. Better this than the philosophy of "don't mess around - get it all over with quickly".

 

[ShadowPuppet]

I wondered if the child cruelty charge might stand? The 1933 children and young person act covers neglecting to provide a child with housing, as well as inadequate clothing.

Definitely feel for the jury and did in the Letby case too - so many delays and so much heartrending evidence to listen to for them.

 

[CaptainNancy]

Being a judge is a cushy number for sure, but one has to sympathise with the jurors, perhaps travelling for an hour or more, sitting around in their room for a few hours from 10am, to do basically nothing until after lunch, and then get told they can go home, and see you on Wednesday. But...such is justice. Better this than the philosophy of "don't mess around - get it all over with quickly".

From having observed 2 trials at the Old Bailey I don’t think being a judge is a cushy number at all. I was surprised at how much they manage what goes on in a trial. Constant management of how questions from the jury are dealt with, constant judgement about how opposing barristers present evidence (this takes up the time in all these breaks) close attention to detail throughout the entire course of the trial in order to present the summing up, every time there is a late start or half morning adjournment they are hearing some other case or sentencing (which requires a written document of comment), making decisions which call on and must comply with the breadth and depth of the law.

 

[Skigh]

From having observed 2 trials at the Old Bailey I don’t think being a judge is a cushy number at all. I was surprised at how much they manage what goes on in a trial. Constant management of how questions from the jury are dealt with, constant judgement about how opposing barristers present evidence (this takes up the time in all these breaks) close attention to detail throughout the entire course of the trial in order to present the summing up, every time there is a late start or half morning adjournment they are hearing some other case or sentencing (which requires a written document of comment), making decisions which call on and must comply with the breadth and depth of the law.

I totally agree and watching recent televised sentences being given by judges confirms my understanding of what qualities are needed in order to fulfil the role of a judge .

 

[jackal67]

The report said wind and rain. It was also freezing cold. I might open the window in a summer thunder storm,but not in the middle of a freezing cold night with icy rain beating on the window.

I sleep with the window slightly open every day of the year whatever the weather.

 

[jackal67]

It's hard not to conclude that if there had been no highly-publicised manhunt they would have had access to money, safe accommodation and food, and the baby would have been fine. That is assuming the baby was healthy to begin with, sadly some babies die through no fault of anyone.

Possibly but remember that they did have all those things available to them in the past but were living in a camper van then a flimsy tent when CM had her first baby. why? They also had 4 previous children removed by SS

 

[jackal67]

Considering they had found them both living with a previous newborn in a shittty waterlogged tent surrounded by bottles of piss I wouldn't be so sure on that.

The authorities didn't hunt them like animals and drive them into conditions that ultimately killed their baby.

They had a long history of startling neglect despite having none of the common struggles of poverty, lack of resources or addiction that usually drive such conditions.

They had the money to have a comfortable, on or off grid home without even working. They had the money for mental healthcare, childcare support and legal representation. They had repeated intense social services support in an attempt to put them in a position to raise their children in a safe and healthy environment.

Instead chose to subject their children to these sorts of conditions over and over and cut any family friends or services who dared try and tell them to be better. She acted like this from her very first baby.

The authorities were doing exactly what they are supposed to do, sadly they got there too late. If less of the public had bought into the mean old Social Services bollocks then maybe they'd have been faster to report sightings while Victoria was still alive to be rescued.

Totally agree 100%

 

[Satchel411]

Possibly but remember that they did have all those things available to them in the past but were living in a camper van then a flimsy tent when CM had her first baby. why? They also had 4 previous children removed by SS

Isn't he from the US and had 4 kids with another woman? They had 1 child together who was the newborn that passed away.
Is their defense that the baby died of natural causes and were too afraid to say anything? So strange.
I wonder if her parents are still supporting her?

 

[Skigh]

Isn't he from the US and had 4 kids with another woman? They had 1 child together who was the newborn that passed away.
Is their defense that the baby died of natural causes and were too afraid to say anything? So strange.
I wonder if her parents are still supporting her?

No, Victoria was their fifth child,they had their 4 other children taken into care. She has been supported financially by a family trust. They are claiming the baby died after ,she,Constance, fell asleep with Victoria in her jacket.

 

[jackal67]

Why did they not move on when the baby died?

Surely they knew they were in trouble with the law and would not want to be arrested? Would make more sense to me to carry on moving around and hiding ?

 

[jackal67]

Recap: Constance Marten trial paused as Old Bailey closes for day after fire

We are bringing you live updates after reports of 'explosions' near the Old Bailey

www.theargus.co.uk

Video of Mark here being escorted back to the van to go back to jail.

I cant see it? !

 

[bobbymkii]

I cant see it? !

look for the update at 12:52pm

 

[jackal67]

RSMB
Bolded for ease

This.
They are co-dependant. I think the only thing the cult has to do with their relationship is that it snapped CM. PTSD is likely, and in the circles, she ran in and her aristocratic background, she was most likely advised to keep a 'stiff upper lip.'
MG likely has PTSD also from being in jail since he was 14 years old.
They met each other and likely trauma-bonded, leading to only trusting each other, unconsciously feeding each others anxiety and paranoia.

I do not think it went anywhere. She was using it until they knew they were hot gossip, and then they only used cash, and when that ran out, they started dumpster diving and attempting to shoplift. Why? Because they did not want to be traced.
I wouldn't be surprised if she still had a good chunk of money when they got arrested, and I will go further to say that is what she used to fund legal services until it ran out and the family refused to help.
ETA:
JMO, of course

She had around 20k put in in december. Maybe that was her total annual payout. 2ok a year is not a huge amount to support 2 people. I would imagine rent would use up most of that especially in London.
However either or both of them could have worked to enable them to have a stable income for their kids upbringing.

 

[jackal67]

look for the update at 12:52pm

Is it on twitter? I dont have that

 

[Alyce]

Is it on twitter? I dont have that

Just scroll down to the 12.52 hrs update as Bobby said, and you can play the clip - no need to go to Twitter

 

[Nikynoo]

Surely they knew they were in trouble with the law and would not want to be arrested? Would make more sense to me to carry on moving around and hiding ?

But they didn’t. They stayed in the same place.

 

[Satchel411]

look for the update at 12:52pm

Is this viewable only in the UK?