Alyce
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- Aug 19, 2012
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It's more like she is just baggage than a tiny baby.
exactly this
It's more like she is just baggage than a tiny baby.
They could even have used one of their coats as a blanket. But they didn't. It's selfish. They put their needs before that of their poor newborn. But why?Why didn’t he buy warm baby outdoor clothing in Argos! I’ve just looked and they sell it! I know she would have been tiny, but omg, my heart breaks for her
Thank you for that info, makes senseYes she can refuse to attend, it's written into legislation that I posted up thread somewhere.
In fact it's her 'right to attend' that she's waived. Most people would want to exercise their right to appear at such a gravely serious matter. However, any defendant, even if in custody and even if in Crown Court can waive their right to attend as long as it is accepted they will receive a 'fair trial' and she is eligible to join on a live link too.
One thing that does strike me about the timeline is that their 'settling' in Sussex does seem to coincide with the alleged death date of Victoria.I've put together everything I can think of in a timeline, as I couldn't find a fine-grained timeline anywhere else. If there's anything I've missed, please do let me know.
- 1974 - MG born, moves to Florida when small
- 26th May 1987 - CM born, lives at Crichel Down, a stately home in Dorset
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
- 1989 - MG convicted of rape, age 14
- 2005 (presumed) - CM leaves school - St Mary's Shaftesbury
- 2006-7 (dates unclear) - CM joins TB Joshua's SCOAN cult in Nigeria, which is later linked to sex abuse. Friends report she's not the same afterwards.
- 2008 - CM starts studying Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Leeds
- Jan 2009 - CM listed as Tatler 'Babe of the Month'
- 2010 - MG released after 20 years and deported to UK
- 2010-11 - CM on a year abroad in Cairo, studying Arabic. She was, presumably, there when the Arab Spring / Egyptian Revolution happened in Cairo in Jan-Feb 2011. A friend, Noisette Tahoun, she met during this time, and stayed in touch with afterwards, later suggests she had a history of unhealthy relationships, referring to a relationship with a "vulgar" man, and that "when she falls in love she doesn't listen to anyone". It's unclear who or when this vulgar man was.
- 2012 - CM graduates from Leeds with a 2:1
- Aug 2012-June 2013 - CM works as a researcher for Al Jazeera in London, and pitches an idea for a documentary about TB Joshua
- 2013 - CM's childhood stately home at Crichel Down is sold. CM's father reported to be working as a tree surgeon, having passed the estate on early to his eldest son.
- June-2013-14 - works in three short term jobs, two lasting less than a month and one lasting three months; appears to be out of work
- 2014 - CM does a NCTJ course in court reporting. I think this is possible a MOOC rather than anything terribly in depth.
- 2016 - CM leaves E15 Acting School and is listed as a graduate. It is unclear what year she started in - it could have been a second BA starting in 2013 (which would explain her work history) or an MA starting 2015.
- 2016 - CM and MG meet. CM rapidly starts to cut off family and friends.
- June 2017 - pregnant, presents at a hospital in London, seeking antenatal care for the first time, says she's living in a campervan
- Sept 2017 - SS issues an alert because they can't locate her
- late 2017 - goes to a hospital in Wales in early labour, fake Irish accent, claims to be a traveller called Isabella O'Brien, and living in a campervan nearby. She says she lives in Leeds but is avoiding her family. MG pretends to be a friend, Mr Aymer, borrowing a surname from CM's sister-in-law.
- unspecified time later, it emerges they were living in a flimsy festival style tent with black bin bags and bottles of urine.
- Interim care order made, and CM and the first baby (FF) go into a mother and baby foster care placement. CM warned about the danger of falling asleep with baby on her. It's unclear if she leaves this foster placement with FF, or when GG is born.
- Jan 2020 - local authority starts care proceedings
- 4 Feb 2020 - CM posts a facebook album with three children entitled "my love sprogs", with different children labelled bty / cof / dav. IMO she posted that in the hope that it would make it easier for the children to find her on social media when they're older. Many of her facebook friends express surprise that she has any children at all. One of the comments suggests that a picture is taken in Ilford, East London.
- Some point between Jan and June 2020 - baby HH is born
- June 2020 - MG and CM refuse a placement in a residential unit, so an emergency care and separation order is made for all three children.
- May 2021 - CM pregnant again with baby II, refuses entry to a social worker, SS arrange a scan, CM disappears and claims she's having private healthcare. Date of birth unclear, but she later leaves hospital without II, despite having been told that if she does that the baby will be recorded as abandoned. The next day she returns to the hospital but is upset to be refused entry because she wouldn't take a covid test. She tells SS that she and MG are 'naturalists' who disagree with any medical intervention.
- August 2021, CM's brother Max Marten marries Ruth Aymer, and the wedding is featured in Vogue. CM is nowhere to be seen due to the estrangement.
- 28 Jan 2022 - care and placement orders made for all four children (adopted, or SGO, presumably) at which point they will have known that they have lost all hope of getting those children back.
- March / April(?) 2022 CM pregnant again, conceals pregnancy
- 19 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Sheffield, presumably as part of his sex offender licence conditions.
- 20-26 Dec 2022 - CM & MG stay in holiday cottage in Northumberland
- 22 Dec - CM receives £15,590 from trust fund
- 24 Dec 2022 - CM claims Victoria was born, though this is disputed.
- 26 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Leeds
- 28 Dec 2022 - Car, a Peugeot 206, breaks down on M61 Greater Manchester (the podcast states this was a Suzuki in M18 Yorkshire). Recovery crew think they're living in the car but don't see a baby. Car towed to Leeds.
- 3 Jan 2023 - CM receives £3400 from a different trust fund
- 4 Jan 2023 - CM & MG check into hotel in Lymm, Cheshire and then later into a different hotel in Manchester
- 5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near Bolton, around 6.30pm CM and MG depart leaving behind a passport, placenta and personal belongings, and the manhunt begins. Local man called Waiwai Balai gives them a lift to Bolton city centre. 20.02 spotted on CCTV at Bolton Bus Interchange. Take a taxi from Bolton to Liverpool, then a separate taxi from near Liverpool Royal Hospital to Harwich. Speculation is that, as both Liverpool and Harwich are ports, they are trying to leave the country but are hamstrung because MG doesn't have a passport and CM lost hers in the car fire.
- 6 Jan 2023 - CM and MG check in at 3am in Premier Inn Harwich. They move to the Fryatt hotel that night.
- 7 Jan 2023 - Check out of hotel in Harwich at 7am, then take a taxi to Colchester, then a taxi to East Ham, where they are seen 10.30-12.30. They take a taxi to Whitechapel Road, arriving at 6.15pm. Eat a meal at a restaurant on Brick Lane. Baby seen moving. MG buys a buggy at Argos, along with some camping gear. Try to get a taxi, fail, dump buggy, put baby in Lidl bag, and get a taxi to Allison Road, Hornsey, Haringey.
- 8 Jan 2023 - CM and MG depart Haringey in a taxi at 1.25am, arriving at Newhaven at 4.56am. Seen sheltering from rain under an underpass around 6am. CM buys snacks at Texaco. 6.15am - seen walking towards fields with bag and tent.
- 9 Jan 2023 - CM claims baby died
- 12 Jan, early hours - CM purchases petrol and snacks from Texaco. She later claims this was because she considered cremating the baby.
- 16 Jan 2023 - dog walker sees tent and MG getting out of it at Stanmer Park Nature Reserve. It is not there a week later.
- 16/17 Feb 2023 - seen near Hollingbury Golf Course with a buggy but no baby
- 17 Feb - tent seen Coldean Lane, Brighton
- 18 Feb - sighting of CM and MG around Coldean Lane, with CM appearing to have something under her jacket
- 19 Feb - CM and MG seen in Stanmer Park with blue tent, and a 'floppy headed' baby with no clothes
- 20 Feb - CM and MG seen scavenging in bins around Hollingbury Golf Course
- 27 Feb 2023 - CM and MG arrested in Brighton, 9.35pm, smelling 'very unpleasant'. They refuse to tell police where the baby is.
- 1 March 2023 - Baby Victoria's remains found, so decomposed that the sex could not be identified visually and the post mortem could not identify a cause of death
Sources:
Constance Marten had four children taken into care before going on run with baby, court hears
Log into Facebook
2016 graduates of East 15 Acting School | University of Essex
Constance Marten - Freelance | LinkedIn
'A voice told me to shave my head and go to Australia': Epiphany of heir to £115m country estate who gave up fortune to go whale watching
![]()
Abuse at the hands of ‘phoney prophet’: Inside cult linked to Constance Marten
Constance Marten’s friends say she wasn’t the same after her time in the cultwww.independent.co.uk
![]()
Aristocrat and boyfriend 'carried baby around in Lidl bag in fatal runaway bid'
Constance Marten and Mark Gordon were dubbed 'arrogant' and 'selfish' as their manslaughter trial beganwww.standard.co.uk
![]()
Constance Marten 'received £19,000 from trust fund' while 'on the run' with baby
She and boyfriend Mark Gordon are on trial accused of manslaughter.metro.co.uk
![]()
Every place Constance Marten went as search widens for missing baby
An urgent search for the baby of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon is continuing amid police fears the child may have come to harmwww.essexlive.news
![]()
Timeline of events in Constance Marten and Mark Gordon case
Mark Gordon and Constance Marten have gone on trial at the Old Bailey where they deny manslaughter by gross negligence of their baby daughter.www.theargus.co.uk
Constance Marten's baby 'wore just a nappy as she took her on 200 mile trip across England on winter night'
![]()
A Romantic Late Summer Wedding at St. Giles House in Dorset, England
The bride designed her own dress inspired by the architecture of their historic wedding venue.www.vogue.com
Exactly that.I find this photograph really distressing, don’t know about anyone else
They could even have used one of their coats as a blanket. But they didn't. It's selfish. They put their needs before that of their poor newborn. But why?
One thing that does strike me about the timeline is that their 'settling' in Sussex does seem to coincide with the alleged death date of Victoria.
It's as if she died, and they gave up.
PS should I have been doing my tax return? Yes. Is the deadline tomorrow? Yes. Was this more interesting? Also yes.
Haha! I've just done mine. Note: it's a nightmare to leave it until the last minute then have to do it ill! Good luckOne thing that does strike me about the timeline is that their 'settling' in Sussex does seem to coincide with the alleged death date of Victoria.
It's as if she died, and they gave up.
PS should I have been doing my tax return? Yes. Is the deadline tomorrow? Yes. Was this more interesting? Also yes.
This leapt out at me. I hadn't read it before.(snipped for focus)
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
Yes - this is the full story, published 2013This leapt out at me. I hadn't read it before.
CM was 9 when he left. I can only imagine that her father leaving the family to go and find himself on the other side of the world was an extremely painful experience for a 9-year-old.
This bit of added detail makes me wonder if her coping mechanism was attaching some kind of romance or depth to the concept of bumming around living out of the back of a vehicle, because it's a funny kind of thing to run in the family otherwise.
JMOO
Is there a video I missed? Agree the buggy looks terrible for a newborn, I would say worse than laying flat in something like a lidl bag. Well, not worse, but more of an immediate risk to her airway. Although less of a risk than suffocating under a padded coat. Every way you look at it is heartbreaking really, isn't it. Can't see any blankets, is it optimistic hoping they had just removed the warm layers before this snapshot was taken? Only thing I will say is she doesn't look like a new newborn here, looks at least a week or two old IMO, pure speculation. I wonder if any other videos show her more clearly to help them assess her ageAs far as I remember newborns shouldn’t be in buggies unless it can lie flat. And (especially in winter) you would line the seat (my small children had a sheepskin liner) and would be in the buggy in a zip up fleece or quilted all in one . And hat and mittens.
Daily Mail have now uploaded the video
![]()
Constance Marten's newborn is seen for the first time
Constance Marten , 36, and Mark Gordon, 49, are accused of causing the death of baby Victoria by living in a tent 'off grid' in the middle of winter.www.dailymail.co.uk
Is there a video I missed? Agree the buggy looks terrible for a newborn, I would say worse than laying flat in something like a lidl bag. Well, not worse, but more of an immediate risk to her airway. Although less of a risk than suffocating under a padded coat. Every way you look at it is heartbreaking really, isn't it. Can't see any blankets, is it optimistic hoping they had just removed the warm layers before this snapshot was taken? Only thing I will say is she doesn't look like a new newborn here, looks at least a week or two old IMO, pure speculation. I wonder if any other videos show her more clearly to help them assess her age
The lack of support for the baby's head was the first thing I noticed. It made me cringe too. Poor Victoria.I agree. It made me cringe to see the way she handles a newborn. No support to her head, no tenderness. My children are more gentle picking up their dog (who's a very muscle heavy frenchie)
The lack of support for the baby's head was the first thing I noticed. It made me cringe too. Poor Victoria.
I've put together everything I can think of in a timeline, as I couldn't find a fine-grained timeline anywhere else. If there's anything I've missed, please do let me know.
- 1974 - MG born, moves to Florida when small
- 26th May 1987 - CM born, lives at Crichel Down, a stately home in Dorset
- 1996 - Napier Marten, CM's father, leaves the family, heads to Australia, and leaves behind his 'materialistic' life. He variously has an out-of-body experience with Aborigines, goes whale watching, lives in a lorry, works as a chef and trains in Indian head massage. Unknown when he returned to the UK, but it's 2013 at the latest.
- 1989 - MG convicted of rape, age 14
- 2005 (presumed) - CM leaves school - St Mary's Shaftesbury
- 2006-7 (dates unclear) - CM joins TB Joshua's SCOAN cult in Nigeria, which is later linked to sex abuse. Friends report she's not the same afterwards.
- 2008 - CM starts studying Arabic and Middle Eastern Studies at the University of Leeds
- Jan 2009 - CM listed as Tatler 'Babe of the Month'
- 2010 - MG released after 20 years and deported to UK
- 2010-11 - CM on a year abroad in Cairo, studying Arabic. She was, presumably, there when the Arab Spring / Egyptian Revolution happened in Cairo in Jan-Feb 2011. A friend, Noisette Tahoun, she met during this time, and stayed in touch with afterwards, later suggests she had a history of unhealthy relationships, referring to a relationship with a "vulgar" man, and that "when she falls in love she doesn't listen to anyone". It's unclear who or when this vulgar man was.
- 2012 - CM graduates from Leeds with a 2:1
- Aug 2012-June 2013 - CM works as a researcher for Al Jazeera in London, and pitches an idea for a documentary about TB Joshua
- 2013 - CM's childhood stately home at Crichel Down is sold. CM's father reported to be working as a tree surgeon, having passed the estate on early to his eldest son.
- June-2013-14 - works in three short term jobs, two lasting less than a month and one lasting three months; appears to be out of work
- 2014 - CM does a NCTJ course in court reporting. I think this is possible a MOOC rather than anything terribly in depth.
- 2016 - CM leaves E15 Acting School and is listed as a graduate. It is unclear what year she started in - it could have been a second BA starting in 2013 (which would explain her work history) or an MA starting 2015.
- 2016 - CM and MG meet. CM rapidly starts to cut off family and friends.
- June 2017 - pregnant, presents at a hospital in London, seeking antenatal care for the first time, says she's living in a campervan
- Sept 2017 - SS issues an alert because they can't locate her
- late 2017 - goes to a hospital in Wales in early labour, fake Irish accent, claims to be a traveller called Isabella O'Brien, and living in a campervan nearby. She says she lives in Leeds but is avoiding her family. MG pretends to be a friend, Mr Aymer, borrowing a surname from CM's sister-in-law.
- unspecified time later, it emerges they were living in a flimsy festival style tent with black bin bags and bottles of urine.
- Interim care order made, and CM and the first baby (FF) go into a mother and baby foster care placement. CM warned about the danger of falling asleep with baby on her. It's unclear if she leaves this foster placement with FF, or when GG is born.
- Jan 2020 - local authority starts care proceedings
- 4 Feb 2020 - CM posts a facebook album with three children entitled "my love sprogs", with different children labelled bty / cof / dav. IMO she posted that in the hope that it would make it easier for the children to find her on social media when they're older. Many of her facebook friends express surprise that she has any children at all. One of the comments suggests that a picture is taken in Ilford, East London.
- Some point between Jan and June 2020 - baby HH is born
- June 2020 - MG and CM refuse a placement in a residential unit, so an emergency care and separation order is made for all three children.
- May 2021 - CM pregnant again with baby II, refuses entry to a social worker, SS arrange a scan, CM disappears and claims she's having private healthcare. Date of birth unclear, but she later leaves hospital without II, despite having been told that if she does that the baby will be recorded as abandoned. The next day she returns to the hospital but is upset to be refused entry because she wouldn't take a covid test. She tells SS that she and MG are 'naturalists' who disagree with any medical intervention.
- August 2021, CM's brother Max Marten marries Ruth Aymer, and the wedding is featured in Vogue. CM is nowhere to be seen due to the estrangement.
- 28 Jan 2022 - care and placement orders made for all four children (adopted, or SGO, presumably) at which point they will have known that they have lost all hope of getting those children back.
- March / April(?) 2022 CM pregnant again, conceals pregnancy
- 19 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Sheffield, presumably as part of his sex offender licence conditions.
- 20-26 Dec 2022 - CM & MG stay in holiday cottage in Northumberland
- 22 Dec - CM receives £15,590 from trust fund
- 24 Dec 2022 - CM claims Victoria was born, though this is disputed.
- 26 Dec 2022 - MG reports to a police station in Leeds
- 28 Dec 2022 - Car, a Peugeot 206, breaks down on M61 Greater Manchester (the podcast states this was a Suzuki in M18 Yorkshire). Recovery crew think they're living in the car but don't see a baby. Car towed to Leeds.
- 3 Jan 2023 - CM receives £3400 from a different trust fund
- 4 Jan 2023 - CM & MG check into hotel in Lymm, Cheshire and then later into a different hotel in Manchester
- 5 Jan 2023 - Peugeot 206 car catches fire on the M61 near Bolton, around 6.30pm CM and MG depart leaving behind a passport, placenta and personal belongings, and the manhunt begins. Local man called Waiwai Balai gives them a lift to Bolton city centre. 20.02 spotted on CCTV at Bolton Bus Interchange. Take a taxi from Bolton to Liverpool, then a separate taxi from near Liverpool Royal Hospital to Harwich. Speculation is that, as both Liverpool and Harwich are ports, they are trying to leave the country but are hamstrung because MG doesn't have a passport and CM lost hers in the car fire.
- 6 Jan 2023 - CM and MG check in at 3am in Premier Inn Harwich. They move to the Fryatt hotel that night.
- 7 Jan 2023 - Check out of hotel in Harwich at 7am, then take a taxi to Colchester, then a taxi to East Ham, where they are seen 10.30-12.30. They take a taxi to Whitechapel Road, arriving at 6.15pm. Eat a meal at a restaurant on Brick Lane. Baby seen moving. MG buys a buggy at Argos, along with some camping gear. Try to get a taxi, fail, dump buggy, put baby in Lidl bag, and get a taxi to Allison Road, Hornsey, Haringey.
- 8 Jan 2023 - CM and MG depart Haringey in a taxi at 1.25am, arriving at Newhaven at 4.56am. Seen sheltering from rain under an underpass around 6am. CM buys snacks at Texaco. 6.15am - seen walking towards fields with bag and tent.
- 9 Jan 2023 - CM claims baby died
- 12 Jan, early hours - CM purchases petrol and snacks from Texaco. She later claims this was because she considered cremating the baby.
- 16 Jan 2023 - dog walker sees tent and MG getting out of it at Stanmer Park Nature Reserve. It is not there a week later.
- 16/17 Feb 2023 - seen near Hollingbury Golf Course with a buggy but no baby
- 17 Feb - tent seen Coldean Lane, Brighton
- 18 Feb - sighting of CM and MG around Coldean Lane, with CM appearing to have something under her jacket
- 19 Feb - CM and MG seen in Stanmer Park with blue tent, and a 'floppy headed' baby with no clothes
- 20 Feb - CM and MG seen scavenging in bins around Hollingbury Golf Course
- 27 Feb 2023 - CM and MG arrested in Brighton, 9.35pm, smelling 'very unpleasant'. They refuse to tell police where the baby is.
- 1 March 2023 - Baby Victoria's remains found, so decomposed that the sex could not be identified visually and the post mortem could not identify a cause of death
Sources:
Constance Marten had four children taken into care before going on run with baby, court hears
Log into Facebook
2016 graduates of East 15 Acting School | University of Essex
Constance Marten - Freelance | LinkedIn
'A voice told me to shave my head and go to Australia': Epiphany of heir to £115m country estate who gave up fortune to go whale watching
![]()
Abuse at the hands of ‘phoney prophet’: Inside cult linked to Constance Marten
Constance Marten’s friends say she wasn’t the same after her time in the cultwww.independent.co.uk
![]()
Aristocrat and boyfriend 'carried baby around in Lidl bag in fatal runaway bid'
Constance Marten and Mark Gordon were dubbed 'arrogant' and 'selfish' as their manslaughter trial beganwww.standard.co.uk
![]()
Constance Marten 'received £19,000 from trust fund' while 'on the run' with baby
She and boyfriend Mark Gordon are on trial accused of manslaughter.metro.co.uk
![]()
Every place Constance Marten went as search widens for missing baby
An urgent search for the baby of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon is continuing amid police fears the child may have come to harmwww.essexlive.news
![]()
Timeline of events in Constance Marten and Mark Gordon case
Mark Gordon and Constance Marten have gone on trial at the Old Bailey where they deny manslaughter by gross negligence of their baby daughter.www.theargus.co.uk
Constance Marten's baby 'wore just a nappy as she took her on 200 mile trip across England on winter night'
![]()
A Romantic Late Summer Wedding at St. Giles House in Dorset, England
The bride designed her own dress inspired by the architecture of their historic wedding venue.www.vogue.com
Thank you, yes I had missed that. Well the buggy laid flat so I guess that was something vaguely positive... as for the rest of it... my heart hurts for baby Victoria.The DM one perhaps ? it's a longer video that the earlier clips - link above