UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #6

[Henrymoggington]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1767150105268830596

This account is giving a little more detail than the Independent or Argus.

Do we know if the allegation she made about a family member was made before she met MG

 

[Nikynoo]

I think the judge is getting quite cross - is CM unravelling? Is she perjuring herself, is that what the Judge means when he warns CM about the 'serious allegations she is making' and that 'there could be consequences for her'? Source - Total Crime Twitter account.

 

[Kye Zeeb]

I had spoken out about a childhood trauma against one of my family members

Constance Marten says she got £2k a month from family despite being 'cut off'

Constance Marten has taken to the stand today in her manslaughter trial at the Old Bailey where she and partner Mark Gordon are accused of killing their fifth child, newborn daughter Victoria

www.mirror.co.uk

This could be interpreted in two ways:
1. CM has spoken out about a childhood trauma which happened to a family member.
2. CM has spoken out against a family member who committed an act of childhood trauma upon CM.
Words are important, and this statement seems carefully worded.

 

[Cherwell]

JMO but anyone who knows the first thing about traveling to Ireland knows that the Hollyhead to Dunlaoghaire ferry is a major route. Most Brits know inherently that Liverpool is Ireland adjacent JMO MOO

You can't speak for everyone. I know about the Holyhead ferry because friends of mine use it quite often, but I had to check to see if the Liverpool - Belfast service was still operating.

 

[Nikynoo]

Anyone have any idea about the passport issue. IIRC, her passport was found in the car, and supposing it was still valid, had not been surrendered for any other reason. I have had a look at both the MHA and DOLs and I cannot find anything that fits a 'travel ban'.

In respect to MG, either the passport expired in around 2020 and he didn't renew or its been surrendered for a reason I cannot mention. Now I am starting to wonder, because he cant travel, she believes (for whatever reason) that she is restricted from travelling. I starting to think that earlier posts in respect to the relationship may be correct.

 

[InstantCoffee]

I think that CMs KC will be having a long chat with her over the lunch break. She needs to understand that you can't beat the system and the best shot she has is to start trying to work with it rather than rail against it. JMO but that is her entitlement glaring through!

 

[Alyce]

 

[Alyce]

 

[Alyce]

 

[Alyce]

 

[Alyce]

 

[rightsaidfred]

This whole Gumtree nanny smuggling thing strikes me as a symptom of someone who has grown up being told that you can do anything you want, has never been told no, and didn't hit any real hard barriers in life until she was an adult.

Because anything is possible when you've grown up truly believing that with a bit of effort anything is achievable.

 

[dotr]

rbbm

Constance Marten 'plotted to smuggle baby to Europe'

Constance Marten claimed her wealthy family had wrongly accused her of bearing children to sell on the black market

www.standard.co.uk

''She is estranged from her family, and has made a series of allegations against them.
“My family have a lot of money, a lot of clout, and a lot of connections”, she said. “That’s how they were able to do what they did.”
Referring to previous court proceedings, she said: “They said I was bearing children to sell on the black market, that I was a drug addict”, adding that these were “allegations that were wholly unfounded”.

 

[Kye Zeeb]

Inheritance tradition in “aristocrat” families is for estate and title go to oldest male, not first born. Selling was probably practical decision as maintaining those homes nearly impossible without regular large income. Not to mention “transfer” duties on the value of the property, and contents. A huge chunk likely required to be sold to pay the taxes, which may have driven decision to sell entire estate. If it’s true, that the brothers who had properties “bought for them”, could be that they had been given properties of the estate when father transferred it and they were replaced.
Not sure if transfers at death would have been more tax effective, as father is still alive this transfer could a been a costly unplanned mess.
No idea what provisions / conditions were for CM.
The sale was probably unavoidable given taxes due on transfer to son.

I have to wonder if a condition of CM receiving a house from the estate proceeds was the permanent ending of the relationship with MG. That could have led to her declining the offer. JMO.

 

[Doughy]

Tbf she's literally just said she'd use gumtree to hand over her baby so that claim isn't completely unfounded....

 

[Rolypolyoly]

do you think she may have suffered from some sort of head injury that has capacitated her somehow? This disjointed thinking is really bizarre.

Honestly? No. She just strikes me as a spoilt little girl who never had to face a consequence or take responsibility for her actions, and that spoilt child never grew up. The sense of entitlement is astounding and there is no self awareness, absolutely everything is someone else's fault.

This whole Gumtree nanny smuggling thing strikes me as a symptom of someone who has grown up being told that you can do anything you want, has never been told no, and didn't hit any real hard barriers in life until she was an adult.

Because anything is possible when you've grown up truly believing that with a bit of effort anything is achievable.

Absolutely this!. "We would get to know them first " Give me strength

 

[Alyce]

I have to wonder if a condition of CM receiving a house from the estate proceeds was the permanent ending of the relationship with MG. That could have led to her declining the offer. JMO.

But she said her family had not wanted to buy her a house while she was in a relationship with Mr Gordon.

I had to escape oppressive and bigoted family, Constance Marten tells court

Constance Marten has insisted she had to escape because of her “oppressive and bigoted family”, a court heard.

www.telegraph.co.uk

 

[rightsaidfred]

Inheritance tradition in “aristocrat” families is for estate and title go to oldest male, not first born. Selling was probably practical decision as maintaining those homes nearly impossible without regular large income. Not to mention “transfer” duties on the value of the property, and contents. A huge chunk likely required to be sold to pay the taxes, which may have driven decision to sell entire estate. If it’s true, that the brothers who had properties “bought for them”, could be that they had been given properties of the estate when father transferred it and they were replaced.
Not sure if transfers at death would have been more tax effective, as father is still alive this transfer could a been a costly unplanned mess.
No idea what provisions / conditions were for CM.
The sale was probably unavoidable given taxes due on transfer to son.

Male primogeniture is the usual tradition, yes, though even the royals ended that with the Succession to the Crown Act (2013) - if William and Kate's first born had been a girl, she would have been next in line.

Inheritance tax is one of those things that tends not to bother us plebs - if you're married homeowners and passing your home onto kids or grandkids, the combined threshold is £1m, and anything above that is 40%.

But if you're as wealthy as the Martens, then passing the estate down at the point of death is always the least tax efficient way to do it. It is traditional for everything to be transferred into the name of the eldest son once he's well into adulthood; so long as his father survives 7 years there's no inheritance tax to pay. We also know that there was a Discretionary Trust, and these Trusts can be used to cut inheritance tax https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/f...ent/using-a-trust-to-cut-your-inheritance-tax

But a lot of these homes became unviable a century ago; in some ways they did quite well to keep it going as long as they did. As with Downton Abbey, it had been difficult to run them as purely homes for decades. A lot of stately homes were completely demolished, especially in the 1950s and 60s, because the income from the land couldn't support them any more. There's a list of 2000 (!!) lost English stately homes here - some local to me which I never even knew existed. England's Lost Country Houses | Lost Heritage

 

[DavidAT]

CM's position is that the reason she envisaged being separated from Victoria for a while after she was 6 months old is because Victoria would go abroad while CM would stay in Britain in the fight to get her other children back. Is this how other people read her evidence? There has to be an answer to why escape abroad would involve separation.

 

[Alyce]

dbm