UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon charged, Newborn (found deceased), Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023 #7

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rightsaidfred said:
I really do feel sorry for the older children, who will inevitably go back and read these statements when they're older and become interested in what happen to them in their birth family.

All adopted children know they have a complicated family history. Few have it made so public, with such mudslinging for public consumption.

I wonder if one day, one of them will find these threads as they try and make sense of their own history; something we should all be mindful of when posting.

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I agree. How very sad for them and what a lot to process.
 
Baby baby Jane said:
Family could also give very damaging testimony as they know a lot about her prior behavior.

The payments, might have been “stopped” because she was not reachable.
Trusts and trustees have certain obligations and CM maybe not complying ….
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Good theory
 
Just reported in the Argus live feed, I think this might be something concrete which could get her into a bit of a pickle on the stand. MOO and just guessing, but CM has maintained they had a sleeping bag for Victoria that came from the buggy they bought in Argos (and then discarded). This has just been produced in court - (prosecution saying it is identical to the one purchased in cash when MG was in Argos). I suspect the prosecution are trying to point out how woefully inadequate this footmuff/cover was as a sleeping bag/method of keeping their baby warm. But by denying that this is the same one (no reason to think it isn’t) she looks way too defensive and shifty. I suspect she knows what they had on them was inadequate for keeping a baby warm (I believe her when she says Victoria spent most of her time in CMs coat in a homemade sling - it’s quite easy and by far the easiest way to transport an infant around) so her only defence is to dissemble and imply the prosecution/police have it wrong. What she doesn’t feel she can admit to (MOO) is that because she constantly had Victoria strapped to her to keep her warm, she very likely knows it was highly likely she suffocated her while they slept. I don’t necessarily believe the falling asleep sitting up - I think she coslept lying down with Victoria in her coat and therefore suffocated her - but that she reasonably had to foresee this was dangerous. But in her mind the cold was more of a danger…

I suspect a jury will see straight through this misleading testimony about having an appropriate sleeping bag and Victoria always being warm and well cared for. I think she was warm - but I think she was suffocated in an attempt to keep her that way. JMO

www.theargus.co.uk

Recap: Trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

Updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues with Marten being cross-examined.
www.theargus.co.uk www.theargus.co.uk
 
It's so pointless her arguing it's not the same buggy and footmuff - it'll be on CCTV him buying it plus the Argos till records. Plus probably on CCTV him assembling it (was that in the kebab shop?)
 
rockthecasbah said:
It's so pointless her arguing it's not the same buggy and footmuff - it'll be on CCTV him buying it plus the Argos till records. Plus probably on CCTV him assembling it (was that in the kebab shop?)
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But she’s got herself into a bind by saying they’re used this as sleeping bag while in the tent. Now it’s presented to her it’s probably no more than a thin windproof, fleecey backed cover. Meant as no more than a protection against the elements rather than some toasty sleeping bag. So she’s pretending this wasn’t what she had. Which I think it more telling in terms of inconsistencies in her story. What is she trying to cover for? I think she is trying to maintain the death being and accident story and they had all they needed. I think she thought they had all they needed - to be able to keep Victoria close to her in her coat. But when it came to her own sleeping she hadn’t thought this through. Which is when I think she went to sleep trying to keep Victoria warm in her coat and then suffocated her - which I think any reasonable person would recognise was highly risky behaviour. (Of course - the sensible solution in that situation would have been for them to take turns sleeping/holding their child. But I suspect extreme fatigue got the better of both of them in terms of needing sleep and also critical thinking skills).

Edit - see - she’s sort of saying it herself. She slept lying down with Victoria in her coat.
www.theargus.co.uk

Recap: Trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues

Updates as the trial of Constance Marten and Mark Gordon continues with Marten being cross-examined.
www.theargus.co.uk www.theargus.co.uk
 
This is what I think occurred… it’s not miles from what CM has claimed happened. But I think given she knows she is guilty of taking this risk she is having to adjust her version of events where the death was much more accidental and unforeseen than it actually was. Ie she was in a risky situation, having to co sleep very unsafely to avoid the risk of hypothermia - a risk she wouldn’t have been taking had she not been on the run. And in doing so, taking this risk, she posed a known danger to Victoria.

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Sherlockhames said:
This is what I think occurred… it’s not miles from what CM has claimed happened. But I think given she knows she is guilty of taking this risk she is having to adjust her version of events where the death was much more accidental and unforeseen than it actually was. Ie she was in a risky situation, having to co sleep very unsafely to avoid the risk of hypothermia - a risk she wouldn’t have been taking had she not been on the run. And in doing so, taking this risk, she posed a known danger to Victoria.

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And actually, this pretty much sums the case up..all the other stuff she’s been saying about PIs etc, it’s simply not relevant.. what is, is whether she intentionally brought risk and then consequently harm to Victoria, resulting in her sad death
 
Henrymoggington said:
And actually, this pretty much sums the case up..all the other stuff she’s been saying about PIs etc, it’s simply not relevant.. what is, is whether she intentionally brought risk and then consequently harm to Victoria, resulting in her sad death
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All this ‘earth mother’ expertise she’s trying to claim is pretty meaningless given the sad outcome of her baby’s life
 
On Thursday, Marten told jurors she was “not a disgruntled parent” but did disagree with the findings in her children’s case.

She said: “It’s abhorrent. My case might not be the same as other parents.

“The problem I had was I was not just up against social services but family members who were very influential with huge connections in high places including Parliament.

“If they said to social services ‘jump’, social services will say ‘how high’.

“They were highly embarrassed about the fact I had children with Mark and the fact they do not come from an upper class, privileged background.”

She added that the unnamed family members would go to “any lengths” to get what they wanted.




www.standard.co.uk

Constance Marten says she went up against ‘influential' family over children’s care

Marten and her partner Mark Gordon deny charges including manslaughter by gross negligence
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk
 
Baby Victoria was sitting in her own faeces when her body was put in a plastic bag, her mother has suggested to a court.

I don’t know why it’s this, out of everything else we’ve heard, that has got to me so much. That poor baby.

www.independent.co.uk

Constance Marten calls baby’s death a ‘horrible accident’ – trial live

Marten and partner Mark Gordon deny gross negligence manslaughter of their daughter Victoria
www.independent.co.uk www.independent.co.uk
 
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