Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

[4dagon]

This would also give this poor couple a plausible reason for setting fire to the car- although it did remind me of a previous incident of spontaneous auto combustion which although certainly connected with the premature termination of the journey was no initiated by me!

 

[JumpingFrog]

I'm just gonna guess that C & M knew they were having a boy throughout the pregnancy. These days the UK offers sex chromosome confirmation via tests, quite like the US has done for years. However, you can pretty much be sure from 16 weeks - I myself had a private scan at this time. With C's money, it's likely they were interested/excited and found out a long time ago. Whatever has happened in London over the last few years, <modsnip> I'd imagine that the pregnancy notes also detailed her aristocracy (to keep her safe let's be fair), as well as any issues regarding her health. Lastly, with her being 35, likely lots of information on baby's development including his sex/gender. I do not see how or why Bolton police/emergency services would go to such forensic lengths to determine the baby's chromosomes especially following a car fire/the damage. All we know is parents and a newborn have absconded and there's a question mark over mum's and baby's health. Likely there's reasons for it to do with the turbulent way they've been living for the past 6 years. It's so strange but no they'd never analyse any blood in a wreckage especially after CCTV evidence they were on foot. No crime had been committed? At least not that's been disclosed. Gosh, I just want her and baby safe <modsnip - not victim friendly>.

 

[4dagon]

Good point. Given the time frame involved, I wonder if they knew she was having a boy already (medical records) or if she sent a message to tell someone. Not much seems to run efficiently anymore so I would be surprised if they took a sample from the car and were able to get a result so quickly.

I’ve seen cases before when babies were removed soon after birth by social services, and heartbreakingly, the poor mother has more and more babies to fill the void. I think she didn’t engage with obstetric services at all because she could see what was going to happen.

 

[JumpingFrog]

I’ve seen cases before when babies were removed soon after birth by social services, and heartbreakingly, the poor mother has more and more babies to fill the void. I think she didn’t engage with obstetric services at all because she could see what was going to happen.

You imo absolutely do make a point that they could have gone alternative routes throughout the pregnancy - private etc. You can refuse scans too, in fact it's quite normal in "crunchy" parenting circles to limit exposure to developing fetus. But yes they could have conceivably been avoiding the NHS for example throughout the whole pregnancy.

 

[4dagon]

If the police find them, they will take the baby.

 

[Perodicticus potto]

If the police find them, they will take the baby.

Only if they can justify exercising Police Powers of Protection, and only for up to 72 hours.
More info here.

 

[StillDiggin]

Missing mum who disappeared with baby ‘was a talented actress’, pals say

A MISSING MUM, who disappeared with her newborn baby, was a “talented actress”, according to pals. Constance Marten “could have gone very far” as a star and even appeared in…

www.thesun.co.uk

 

[AmandaSkis]

A search for a missing mother and her newborn child has entered its sixth day, with every hotel and B&B in the city of Colchester being checked.

Police are concerned that Constance Marten, 35, has financial resources as she is from a wealthy, landowning family.

Miss Marten, and her partner Mark Gordon, disappeared after the car they were travelling in broke down on the M61 near Bolton, Greater Manchester, on Thursday evening, before leaving on foot with their baby boy.

The family was last seen in Colchester, with Essex Police stating that they now have a number of confirmed sightings in the city.

Yesterday, officers worked through the night to visit every single hotel and bed and breakfast in Colchester to establish whether the couple and their baby had recently stayed.

The search is continuing today and leaflets are being handed out to help members of the public identify Miss Marten and Mr Gordon.

It has now emerged Ms Marten is from an aristocratic landowning family in Dorset with 'ties to the Royal Family'.

But it is understood that she has not been in close contact with them for a considerable time.

[...]

Intelligence provided by taxi drivers suggests that the couple paid cash to travel first to Liverpool and then to Essex. They later stayed at a hotel using false names. They were spotted in Harwich Port in Essex at around 9am on Saturday morning.

[...]

Police check every hotel in city in hunt for missing mother and baby

A search for missing mother Constance Marten (pictured), 35, and her newborn child has entered its sixth day, with every hotel and B&B in the city of Colchester being checked.

www.dailymail.co.uk

I am somewhat confused because this article indicates that they think the mother has “resources” yet they were in a car that broke down? Why did they not get it fixed?

 

[ScalableHeights]

Ive thought that too but according to the Times article the family’s money is with some old private bank Hoare & co, whether that applies to CM’s money- i dont know, but I would think its a private bank for a reason, seeing as you need millions to bank with them. I expect the Police would need a good reason/warrant to look at anyones bank accounts due to the data protection act etc..

Yes, they strike me as the kind of “old money” bank who sell themselves on their discretion and have lots of very rich clients who would rather the police didn’t go sniffing around, so I imagine they would push back against police attempts to monitor anything. That being said, they’re giv off major duffel-bag-full-of-cash vibes.

One of the weird contractions of the whole thing is her supposed wealth and the conditions she’s apparently been living in for the last six or seven years (according to The Times, anyway).

 

[ScalableHeights]

I am somewhat confused because this article indicates that they think the mother has “resources” yet they were in a car that broke down? Why did they not get it fixed?

My feelings is they bought a cheap banger for cash and it broke down and caught fire. The Times article mentions they’ve been evicted from at least one property for not paying rent, so whatever their “resources” they seemed reluctant to dip into it more than they had to (although that seems have possibly changed now)

 

[Amaz0nia]

I’ve seen cases before when babies were removed soon after birth by social services, and heartbreakingly, the poor mother has more and more babies to fill the void. I think she didn’t engage with obstetric services at all because she could see what was going to happen.

My sister is a heavy drug addict & has had 3 out of 5 of her children removed pretty much at birth -is horrendous and has added to her addiction, the last 2 she disappeared from the hospital within 2 hrs of the births after refusing to accept help with her issues ,…is tragic but she is in no fit state to care for herself let alone her children. I dont think CM’s case is that extreme but obv they have been living a chaotic lifestyle recently…

 

[Amaz0nia]

It also says in the most recent articles that they didnt really leave the house on coldharbour estate (which i know really well) and that the neighbours say they rarely came out or in garden, just hearing shouting inside sometimes. Seems like MG was at home all day while CM did ‘odd jobs’ whatever that means why would she be out doing odd jobs if she has access to considerable money? <modsnip> that house was also smashed up and had burn marks in it & they were evicted for non payment of rent…all sounds very unhealthy to me whatever they were doing in there…also maybe she only has a certain amount of trust fund money a month and was odd jobbing to make ends meet until the next payout..anyhow why wasnt MG out working as well? <modsnip - not victim friendly> CM’s life dosnt sound very nice atm…All my opinion

 

[Perodicticus potto]

Yes, they strike me as the kind of “old money” bank who sell themselves on their discretion and have lots of very rich clients who would rather the police didn’t go sniffing around, so I imagine they would push back against police attempts to monitor anything.

Private banks are bound by the same laws and regulations as retail banks. They just provide a more personalised service to clients. As long as the police requested the information properly, they would have no power to "push back."

 

[Amaz0nia]

Private banks are bound by the same laws and regulations as retail banks. They just provide a more personalised service to clients. As long as the police requested the information properly, they would have no power to "push back."

Ah I wasnt sure! So, in theory then the police should know where they have been, if theyve been withdrawing money…thanks for clearing that up!

 

[Perodicticus potto]

<modsnip - quoted post snipped>

that house was also smashed up and had burn marks in it

IIRC, the Times article said there was "smoke damage" and a collapsed ceiling, which could have been caused by smoking in the property and failing to report/repair a leak. That's if you take the landlord's word that the tenants were at fault, which - having dealt with my share of landlords - I wouldn't automatically do.

 

[JumpingFrog]

If we consider that mental health, abusive relationships (of any kind), world views/politics and self abandon can make people behave on the outside (to our observations) as strange...there could be a myriad of reasons why. To me, neighbours hearing shouting and a couple who were never seen, with burn damage to a property is telling (and scary). Friendships breaking down, distancing from family...I say again, why haven't (either) families made pleas for them to get in touch? Why are a couple based in London in Bolton - had they been living there, escaping medical intervention during the pregnancy maybe? Or visiting connections - did they outrightly buy the banger or was it given to them to make the journey back to London? Were the odd jobs so cash withdrawals were less as to pinpoint their location at any given time? Lots of possibilities only conjecture but I say again, I really hope she and baby will be okay.

 

[Amaz0nia]

Private banks are bound by the same laws and regulations as retail banks. They just provide a more personalised service to clients. As long as the police requested the information properly, they would have no power to "push back."

Ah I wasnt sure! So, in theory then the police should know where they have been, if theyve been withdrawing money…thanks for clearing that up!

<modsnip - quoted post snipped>


IIRC, the Times article said there was "smoke damage" and a collapsed ceiling, which could have been caused by smoking in the property and failing to report/repair a leak. That's if you take the landlord's word that the tenants were at fault, which - having dealt with my share of landlords - I wouldn't automatically do.

<modsnip - quoted post snipped>
I also know the neighbours of the house.
Yes have had my fair share of nasty landords too..but according to the articles they had been evicted from a few properties -thats if you believe the newspaper reporting (times & mail)…

 

[Perodicticus potto]

Yes have had my fair share of nasty landords too..but according to the articles they had been evicted from a few properties

Yes, for nonpayment of rent (at least in the second case). I was just questioning the report of damage, which may or may not be meaningful.

 

[Earthwindfire]

I am somewhat confused because this article indicates that they think the mother has “resources” yet they were in a car that broke down? Why did they not get it fixed?

It also says in the most recent articles that they didnt really leave the house on coldharbour estate (which i know really well) and that the neighbours say they rarely came out or in garden, just hearing shouting inside sometimes. Seems like MG was at home all day while CM did ‘odd jobs’ whatever that means why would she be out doing odd jobs if she has access to considerable money? <modsnip> that house was also smashed up and had burn marks in it & they were evicted for non payment of rent…all sounds very unhealthy to me whatever they were doing in there…also maybe she only has a certain amount of trust fund money a month and was odd jobbing to make ends meet until the next payout..anyhow why wasnt MG out working as well? <modsnip - not victim friendly> CM’s life dosnt sound very nice atm…All my opinion

I've taken the odd jobs comment to be an assumption that neighbours made. As in he never left the house but she did and they probably assumed she was doing odd jobs as she left at no consistent time.

My neighbours wouldn't have a clue what I do when I leave the house. They probably assume I go to work but wouldn't really have a clue.

 

[youmeddlingkids]

If she has had previous children removed that would trigger social services to complete assessments during her pregnancy to check if the baby would be safe to stay with her.

If she avoided the assessments and there is evidence of continued drug use/domestic abuse and other unsafe behaviours (being unable to manage a tenancy and all the damage or unsafe people) it may be they were told that social services would apply to the courts as soon as baby is born for them to be removed. That could explain them concealing the birth/fleeing. If she is using drugs baby could be really poorly.

For there to be this level of police involvement there has to be a high level of risk to baby, I hope they are ok.