Recovered/Located UK - Constance Marten & Mark Gordon & Newborn, left a broken down car on motorway, Bolton Greater Manchester, 5 Jan 2023

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Do you have a link to the exact law you are citing, please?
The children act 1989
Section 1: the welfare checklist

This is what courts consider when making decisions about a child.
For this baby:
His physical needs (shelter/medical attention)
Any harm he has suffered
His parents capability to meet his needs

Would all be areas where significant harm might be evidenced.
Social workers would have to outline how this threshold is met for a court to make an order to remove baby from parents
Police can removed baby using police powers for up to 72 hours

The section 47 inquiries are child protection enquiries - they would undoubtably be met for baby due to the circumstances but it’s welfare checklist/ children act threshold that is used to make decisions on potential separation of baby from parents
 
The children act 1989
Section 1: the welfare checklist

This is what courts consider when making decisions about a child.
For this baby:
His physical needs (shelter/medical attention)
Any harm he has suffered
His parents capability to meet his needs

Would all be areas where significant harm might be evidenced.
Social workers would have to outline how this threshold is met for a court to make an order to remove baby from parents
Police can removed baby using police powers for up to 72 hours

The section 47 inquiries are child protection enquiries - they would undoubtably be met for baby due to the circumstances but it’s welfare checklist/ children act threshold that is used to make decisions on potential separation of baby from parents
Thank you for taking the time to provide such a clear explanation. i really appreciate it.
 
There is no proof that they're sleeping rough. 18 days ago they bought a tent. That's it.
This is it.
All the headlines stated they were living in a tent when there is not a single iota of evidence they are.
HE bought a cheap tent and a couple of sleeping bags..
That is all.
The media did the rest.
Same as always.
 
There is no proof that they're sleeping rough. 18 days ago they bought a tent. That's it.
I dont think they are sleeping rough either but their current lifestyle dosnt seem very comfortable or appropriate for a newborn baby either, being dragged around from pillar to post, just trying to hide must be exhausting in itself…not to mention the strain of the situation on CM postpartum and MG. The stress of being spotted must be horrendous, i dont envy them and wonder how long they can continue evading the police/SS or whoever else is involved
 
I dont think they are sleeping rough either but their current lifestyle dosnt seem very comfortable or appropriate for a newborn baby either, being dragged around from pillar to post, just trying to hide must be exhausting in itself…not to mention the strain of the situation on CM postpartum and MG. The stress of being spotted must be horrendous, i dont envy them and wonder how long they can continue evading the police/SS or whoever else is involved
It's been 18 days lovely. I'd imagine that everything people are worried about (stability and warmth) they took care of a couple of weeks ago.
 
It's been 18 days lovely. I'd imagine that everything people are worried about (stability and warmth) they took care of a couple of weeks ago.
It's been 18 days lovely. I'd imagine that everything people are worried about (stability and warmth) they took care of a couple of weeks ago.
Ive been following this from day one & Im not so sure that they are that sorted, but i doubt they are sleeping rough..i dont think they expected this level of media interest either which has probably scuppered some of their best laid plans.
 
I dont think they are sleeping rough either but their current lifestyle dosnt seem very comfortable or appropriate for a newborn baby either, being dragged around from pillar to post, just trying to hide must be exhausting in itself…not to mention the strain of the situation on CM postpartum and MG. The stress of being spotted must be horrendous, i dont envy them and wonder how long they can continue evading the police/SS or whoever else is involved
We are told they moved between 2 addresses?
Hardly the Sahara on a trek is it?

They lost one, was probably in dire condition to begin with and landlord may have refused to repair it causing them to withhold rent? SPECULATING

They were moving to a new place, car and waters broke en route resulting in some confusion and a misplaced placenta, a burned out vehicle but the new place was awful when they got there so they had to return, thus the wild journeys..
POSSIBLE, is it not?

Another POSSIBILITY is that they shun media, all media and don't have the faintest idea they are on anybody's radar.

I feel compelled to make this presentation on their behalf even though it is merely speculation soup, because I want what is best for all three and negative feelings and words in my superstitious mind may lead to negative consequences.

In other words, everything might just turn out all right and I hope it does.
 
I agree but would they really waste money on a tent and sleeping bags just to pay a false trail? Unless they are keeping it for the warmer weather? Also a lot of stuff to carry around everyday?
I haven't a clue. But until such a time as they are found living in a tent...
I don't know how they think...
 
For the benefit of anyone still doubting that families sleep rough in London, this is a news story from 2018 about a fire that broke out in a homeless camp in a little park close to the Barking Road/North Circular interchange, which is a couple of roads away from where CM and MG were dropped by the taxi they took from Essex. I'm not local so I don't know if that particular camp is still there, but the article illustrates the general problem, which imo is only likely to have become worse since 2018.

Fire crews tackle ‘out of control’ bonfire at homeless camp in East Ham
 
For the benefit of anyone still doubting that families sleep rough in London, this is a news story from 2018 about a fire that broke out in a homeless camp in a little park close to the Barking Road/North Circular interchange, which is a couple of roads away from where CM and MG were dropped by the taxi they took from Essex. I'm not local so I don't know if that particular camp is still there, but the article illustrates the general problem, which imo is only likely to have become worse since 2018.

Fire crews tackle ‘out of control’ bonfire at homeless camp in East Ham
Wow. That is an eye opener.
 
I think they could using a burner phone or contacting a friend and asking them to make contact on her behalf?
Emailing a photograph from a burner email account containing the latest edition of some newspaper would at least be proof of life.
LE have expressed concern about the baby.
What about the mother, presumably having given birth in a vehicle and then having to walk for such a long long time?
I know that was on 7th but they're using cash..no tracking available..
Any picture of a baby could be any baby. Police will want to make sure Baby is ok and at some point do a DNA check.
 
I think the main concern is for the police and social services at this point is the fact they've not made contact.

The media speculates, as it does, but there is some reason to be concerned that they've not even made contact with someone to say 'hey, we're all good, we just don't want a conventional life'. It's concerning for all 3 of them that they haven't done that. I believe that's why this has gone from a private affair that began in a bizarre way to a public affair where the general public are informed.

It is possible that the mum and the baby have in fact been checked out by a medical centre who, unless they have concerns about the infant, can't pass on those details to other services -- even the police.

Again, my social work training was a while ago and things change, but we have things similar to HIPPA here which means health information can't just be casually shared unless there's a concern for the health and welfare of the child.

So it is entirely possible mum and baby (and even dad) have gone to a walk-in health centre, since an A&E is possibly too public and may have police in by chance, been checked over, and the professionals who checked them have no concerns for the infant, or no concerns that raise the bar high enough to involve social services. (ETA: This is just IMO, there is no proof this has or has not happened.)

It is a very very tricky line to cross between people living how they want, and keeping kids (especially newborns) safe. It is one professionals on both sides have to consider when it comes to sharing information between services and especially with the general public and media.

Would I personally have concerns if I knew that mum and dad are sleeping rough with a newborn? Of course, but that would be coming from a personal, emotional angle. If someone is thinking with their professional head, they might not think their non-conventional life is concerning enough to elevate it and break confidentiality.

If medical professionals started giving information to social services every single time they had a personal concern that someone isn't raising a child the way they would, then people would stop going to medical professionals out of fear. It isn't always clear if there should be a concern. If a baby presents with frequently broken bones that it couldn't have broken by itself and has no medical condition that causes that fragility, then of course social services should be involved -- that's nice and clear. Obviously, this is me being extreme to make that point especially clear, that there's levels to concerns about a baby or child.

But someone going with a healthy baby (and you don't have to disclose how or where you're living) that you may think could be swaddled better or is a little chilly or has parents who don't live the same life you live makes it more complicated. You can't report an otherwise healthy baby to social services just because the parents use a box instead of a crib, for example. You may refer them on to parenting services and try to get them home visits, but they have the right to refuse those things, too -- again, without that raising the bar of concern high enough to ignore privacy.

My main point, mid-ramble, was that it's entirely possible they have had medical exams, but that the concern continues from the angles of social services and the police because these people have made a choice not to be in contact with them or someone who can verify that things are okay.
 
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We don't know if there was a search activated before the car caught fire.
With MG's conviction IMO/IME I would guess that SS were aware of unborn baby and flight risk warnings were sent to local authorities around the country or in areas they had links to.

Several forces, West Yorks, South Yorks, 6th Jan Essex, MET by 9th Jan were quick to appeal for information on their whereabouts soon after Greater Manchester police, so that lead me to believe they were on police radar before the car fire incident.
 
Other than the prison record, not much seems to be known about MG, did he ever have a job or go to school after he was returned to the UK, what did he do for fun (in the UK not US!) again- did he keep in contact perhaps through mail delivery with fellow Florida prisoners?
What connections, friends did MG make, how did he support himself before his UK <modsnip>?
speculation, imo.
 
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