UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #12

[Shiressleuth]

If the ping in Barton Mills has a radius of approx 4 miles how did LE precisely know that the mobile phone was close to the rubbish lorry at the time it pinged. The rubbish lorry might be a complete red herring, the phone pings could of come from a completely different vehicle.

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I think they know C and phone were in Bin area at a certain time and they know bin lorry was also there at a certain time when not many other vehicles were about and I guess the phone pings took off at a similar time to the bin lorry so they seem to have matched it there. The BM end must be a much looser match imo because of the radius, different routes and limited cctv. They only have a motion cctv at the BM roundabout so they just saw the bin lorry and made a guess it was that vehicle I think but don't know for sure as we are not privy to all the pings.JMO.

 

[Blueazman74]

I reckon he has been hanging around to drive his car back in the morning. Hence the reason he has ordered a lot of food (to help sober up) and had a kip in the doorway. Once he awoke at 3am he has decided that he only has around 4 hours to get back to base, sleep and then back out to the town to pick it up before parking restrictions start to kick in on the saturday morning. He has wandered about a bit went for a piss and then spotted the relatively clean cardboard bin and hopped in there for a further kip (remember that this is a guy who had just slept for an hour or two in a cold doorway in full public view, a secluded, clean and warmish recycle bin would be like the Hilton after that). That would explain him hanging around there and then leaving around the time the bin lorry does. It would also explain why he was recorded entering that area but never leaving. Then, during the journey back to the bin depot, he has woke up (possibly injured and disorientated) hopped out the truck and wandered across the forrest/river where he has perished. I know the bin lorry has been searched, but I doubt they would find anything, particularly in the skip area of it. I also understand the loads get weighed, but at which point? If it is purely when the lorry leaves the yard and then when it arrives back (weighbridge similar to a scrappies?) then this theory would be the most logical.

My theory: Corrie was hanging around hoping to sober up so he could drive his car back in the morning. He hopped into cardboard bin for a few hours kip then accidentally got tipped into refuse truck. During trucks journey back to the depot he has somehow exited it. Possibly disorientated/injured/concused he has wandered into the forrest/river and perished.

I don't see how it would be possible to get out of the lorry once 'dropped' in via the bin.

Have a look at the linked video, I don't know if this is the same style of vehicle exactly.

https://youtu.be/Y_yBRO_t6hI

Also, as far as I can find out, the bin is weighed on the way up into the lorry and then on the way down. The difference is the weight of the contents of the bin. So an item weighing around 85-90 kilos couldn't not have been in there.

The company that fits the weighing equipment shows it working on their website.

http://vwsltd.co.uk/product/rear-end-loader-rel/

 

[MidsummersDay]

I thought the phone pinged at 0430? I could be wrong. But if Corrie is last seen heading in the direction of the bins and focus 12 at 0325 but the phone didn't ping until 0430 then what was he doing for that time inbetween?
Had he met a few randomers who were staying at focus 12 without focus 12 knowledge?


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See I came up with a theory that caused a right old division and debate (division bad/debate good) about this in several earlier threads. I even did some death by PowerPoint slides lol. The departure time regardless whether it's from the 'Horseshoe' OR BSE mast area is massively important to me. Again, regardless of whether Corrie was with it or not, we know that the phone ONLY had departed. We could then work out roughly when it was parted from Corrie (if it was)....


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[trefrew2016]

IMO it seems highly probable that Corrie’s phone somehow ended up in the back of the bin lorry.
I just can’t convince myself that he did as well, given all the checks and measures that are in place - if the weighing system is flawed, the sorting procedure would uncover him, and if that was flawed too, the forensics would find evidence of his presence.
There’s a window of roughly an hour from Corrie entering the horseshoe for him to become detached from his phone, and possibly for some misadventure to befall him, either of his own making or at the hand of someone else.
Mystified.

 

[Robert00]

With all due respect, and not to offend anyone. But the bin theory is not possible. <modsnip>

 

[stepmeek]

James you know I respect your theorising without question. It'd be wrong of me to respectfully question it though, so here it is....

Drugs:
I know of no one in the RAF who would use drugs on a weekend whilst 11 miles from there base. Very, very occasionally back home on leave but they would be found out fairly soon anyway. Besides apart from the random drugs and drink testing, the culture just isn't there. I just don't see it happening. Perhaps I have rose tinted glasses on but I'm not feeling the love for this one.
Party:
Dear goat above! I've lost count of how many top floor windows I've jumped out of stark naked into snow drifts or how many trees I've slept in. The party culture is most definitely there. Can I see him having a party at 0330? Erm, bit late but feasible.
Hook up:
The less said about this the better but we all know that we're 'lovers not fighters' at heart
Hook up gone wrong:
A massive possibility in my mind. A blottowed Serviceman, a modern day, touchy feely, free sex line that offers that extra jiggly approach....erm, it's a ten from Len. It would only take the honey trap scenario for this to happen like you suggested. We had problems with this in Germany AND NI etc. He certainly hasn't appeared after three months 'house sitting'. Perhaps the four and six months point might provide fruit?
Intentional AWOL:
Nothing points that way unless he's planned EVERYTHING to the nth degree. We know he's a risk taker but the dog at home, the expensive car in a disabled bay that need recovering by 0900 the next day, the CCTV footage in a major town centre, drinking with his mates, kebab shop audience....nope, not feeling the love for this scenario.
UNINTENTIONAL AWOL:
For this to happen it would mean a last minute decision to leg it. If this were the case he would need wheels to get somewhere at 0330. No taxi driver etc has come forward that we know of.

The only way you would get into a vehicle is if it was attractive to do so. So what would attract you to get into a vehicle excluding the driver?...cash.....sex.....honey....sex....sex...man....woman....sex....sex?
If it's a woman I'm fine with that. Why hasn't she come forward though if it was innocent sex? Probably because she was married to the Stashe or someone in his section/regiment?
If it's a man I'm fine with that also. This is probably the most plausible for me as as much as I disagree with its ethos, it fits the bill of hook up gone wrong. The meet is deniable because Corrie hasn't officially come out as bisexual or full blown gay. The driver doesn't want to come forward for fear of persecution or blowing his identity. Neither would the driver come forward if he was guilty of the disposal of Corrie by dropping him off at a bus stop or dumping his body in a wood.
JMO.


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I have to disagree with the drugs thing. Not saying it is common in the military but it happens, and certainly more than most people would think. That's not to suggest Corrie was but it can't be discounted.

 

[SOMETHINGWILLDO]

See I came up with a theory that caused a right old division and debate (division bad/debate good) about this in several earlier threads. I even did some death by PowerPoint slides lol. The departure time regardless whether it's from the 'Horseshoe' OR BSE mast area is massively important to me. Again, regardless of whether Corrie was with it or not we know that the PHONE ONLY had departed. We could then work out roughly when it was parted from Corrie (if it was)....


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Absolutely, the departure time from both are important - what time it left the horse shoe AND what time it left BSE are 2 totally different things altogether.
Did we ever get the different times laid out? (Sorry, normally I'm more than switched on for times etc but I've thought about it so much today that I've now confused myself massively)

If we knew for certain what time the phone left the horseshoe area we would know that either (a) Corrie hung about in there for an hour for some reason and then left somehow with his phone or (b) the phone was separated from Corrie and left at that time but did Corrie? If he didn't then where is he? Who binned it?

What's the chances even if a search was granted at this point of finding the phone in the landfill site? Slim to none?

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[Shiressleuth]

I hadn't appreciated the juxtaposition of the teenagers being nearby at the same time as the bin operation was going on. The questions would be:
a) whether they would have the opportunity to throw something into the lorry as it was either stationary or as it drove past them, and:
b) whether they were picked up by CCTV at any point either side of being seen by the driver and if not, how?

Very good point.

 

[c4nd1_83]

That's another thing isn't it. If he was in bin lorry with his and hopped out along the way to walk the rest of the way back. You would expect him to have some sort of activity on his phone rather than just a ping. We know that his phone died at 8am so he had enough charge to keep him company along the journey until he met with an incident. He never used his phone after 3.08 so even when he arrived at horseshoe area at 3.24 and whatever he was jogging for appeared to not be there, he never contacted anyone which would make me feel that something happened very quickly once he turned in to this area - bringing me back to 4 minute man.

Also, I wonder what he did between 3.08 - 3.20ish when he headed off to horseshoe, not using his phone sat in that doorway. Seems quite a while to be just sat there not doing anything at all with your phone

I agree. Something happened very quickly to him after entering horseshoe area. If he felt in danger at anytime he would have used his phone to contact someone.

Its hard to establish a timeline when we are not aware of the 3 other vehicles times of arrival and departure, 1 of which had no reason to be there as states by Nicola in her recent online video.

This vehicle would have had to have been there before the bin lorry arrived for the phone ping timings to match up.
If we believe the phone was in the bins and went into the bin lorry that is.

So if he went in a vehicle the vehicle would have had to have already been there parked up when Corrie walked into the horseshoe. Or it arrived before the bin lorry at 4am. This leaves approximately 30 minutes for Something to have happened where Corrie could not let anyone know via mobile phone.

Phone went to Barton Mills (possibly in bin lorry waste), did not move after this until finally losing connection.

It would be interesting to know how quickly the incineration process takes from delivery of waste. This could help with the phone being cut off if the waste was incinerated at 8am.


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[KaiserSauzee]

I agree. Something happened very quickly to him after entering horseshoe area. If he felt in danger at anytime he would have used his phone to contact someone.

Its hard to establish a timeline when we are not aware of the 3 other vehicles times of arrival and departure, 1 of which had no reason to be there as states by Nicola in her recent online video.

This vehicle would have had to have been there before the bin lorry arrived for the phone ping timings to match up.
If we believe the phone was in the bins and went into the bin lorry that is.

So if he went in a vehicle the vehicle would have had to have already been there parked up when Corrie walked into the horseshoe. Or it arrived before the bin lorry at 4am. This leaves approximately 30 minutes for Something to have happened where Corrie could not let anyone know via mobile phone.

Phone went to Barton Mills (possibly in bin lorry waste), did not move after this until finally losing connection.

It would be interesting to know how quickly the incineration process takes from delivery of waste. This could help with the phone being cut off if the waste was incinerated at 8am.


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My understanding is that the waste does not get incinerated. It was cardboard waste which gets recycled.

With regards to his phone, smartphones are notorious for running out of battery when on a night out. Assuming he charged in his car, his phone was active for around 12 hours, with some activity (phone calls, texts etc) on the go, i reckon that it has simply 'died' on him.

My theory: Corrie was hanging around hoping to sober up so he could drive his car back in the morning. He hopped into cardboard bin for a few hours kip then accidentally got tipped into refuse truck. During trucks journey back to the depot he has somehow exited it. Possibly disorientated/injured/concused he has wandered into the forrest/river and perished.

 

[mrseeker]

To make sure the lorry contained the phone they should check the driver's mobile to see if it pinged off the same towers as it travelled to Barton Mills.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Absolutely, the departure time from both are important - what time it left the horse shoe AND what time it left BSE are 2 totally different things altogether.
Did we ever get the different times laid out? (Sorry, normally I'm more than switched on for times etc but I've thought about it so much today that I've now confused myself massively)

If we knew for certain what time the phone left the horseshoe area we would know that either (a) Corrie hung about in there for an hour for some reason and then left somehow with his phone or (b) the phone was separated from Corrie and left at that time but did Corrie? If he didn't then where is he? Who binned it?

What's the chances even if a search was granted at this point of finding the phone in the landfill site? Slim to none?

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I look at the pongs as unknown quantities. We have the time the bin lorry left only - at 4.20. The bse mast is close to bin area I believe so add on 3 miles travel time at 30 mph = 6 mins so we have leaving BSE mast area approx 4.26. We have 28 mins travel time but do not know if that is from bin area to BM roundabout or from mast perimeter to mast perimeter. One would be 12 miles and the other would be only 6 miles approx so it is now guesswork from that point on and is pointless IMO. What are we trying to show with these pongs anyway?

Re the landfill- the sorted waste was incinerated it never went to landfill so why search the landfill?

 

[c4nd1_83]

4 minute man has the answer. I am sure of it.

Nicola said he was seen hiding from people, then his seen leaving 4 minutes after Corrie went in. Captured one 1 cctv camera which appears to show him running or walking very fast (hence the bad quality image). Dressed all in black, hood up on a summers night when its relatively warm.

He was up to no good. Stalking the area, waiting for a victim.

This however does not explain how Corrie has not been found in that area. As clearly the 4 minute man doesn't have him on his person when his seen leaving.

Could 4 minute man have done something to Corrie? Dragged him into a dark Corner to hide him? Put his phone in the paper bin? Come back in a Vehicle at a later time and put Corrie in it?

It all seems a little far fetched, and if this was the case this person would have to have some serious guts about him. But then again ive watched a documentary recently of a teenage boy who randomly killed his ex gf and then went to get his friend and took him to show him her body in the woods. And he was only 15 years old. So is possible. Lack of evidence unfortunately in this country means, you can have a suspect but cant do nothing about it.

4 minute man knows something!


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[Purplepixii]

4 minute man has the answer. I am sure of it.

Nicola said he was seen hiding from people, then his seen leaving 4 minutes after Corrie went in. Captured one 1 cctv camera which appears to show him running or walking very fast (hence the bad quality image). Dressed all in black, hood up on a summers night when its relatively warm.

BIB - do you have a source for this please?

 

[MidsummersDay]

To make sure the lorry contained the phone they should check the driver's mobile to see if it pinged off the same towers as it travelled to Barton Mills.

Genius statement (if it's not been done already). I meant that sincerely by the way.


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[c4nd1_83]

BIB - do you have a source for this please?

I will have to search. She said it on an interview.


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[TheTruthWillOut]

To make sure the lorry contained the phone they should check the driver's mobile to see if it pinged off the same towers as it travelled to Barton Mills.

Yes. I said this very early on. Although I think it was said the bin lorry man is quite old been with the company years so may not have one? Then again work early hours alone I would think work would provide one for safety if nothing else?

 

[Miss_B]

Sorry - first post and not sure if I've done it correctly. I've read all of the posts and have no real ideas. Not sure how to quote but Nicola says "1 of which had no reason to be there" - a parked up taxi perhaps. Can you access taxi apps without it showing on the phone history records? Just a thought, I know everything has probably been covered already.

 

[MidsummersDay]

4 minute man has the answer. I am sure of it.

Nicola said he was seen hiding from people, then his seen leaving 4 minutes after Corrie went in. Captured one 1 cctv camera which appears to show him running or walking very fast (hence the bad quality image). Dressed all in black, hood up on a summers night when its relatively warm.

He was up to no good. Stalking the area, waiting for a victim.

This however does not explain how Corrie has not been found in that area. As clearly the 4 minute man doesn't have him on his person when his seen leaving.

Could 4 minute man have done something to Corrie? Dragged him into a dark Corner to hide him? Put his phone in the paper bin? Come back in a Vehicle at a later time and put Corrie in it?

It all seems a little far fetched, and if this was the case this person would have to have some serious guts about him. But then again ive watched a documentary recently of a teenage boy who randomly killed his ex gf and then went to get his friend and took him to show him her body in the woods. And he was only 15 years old. So is possible. Lack of evidence unfortunately in this country means, you can have a suspect but cant do nothing about it.

4 minute man knows something!


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<modsnip>

There are a number of things that we need to underline first though:
1. Was Corrie with or without his phone when it pinged the BM mast area? IMHO likely.
2. If he was with it then he should be within the BM mast footprint (likely battery exhaustion at 0800). IMHO likely.
3. If he wasn't with it, where was Corrie? IMHO unknown.
4. More importantly, under what circumstances would you part with a mobile phone...lost, misplaced, stolen, thrown away?
5. The parting of the mobile phone seems to have more speculative evidence fastened to it than the traceability of Corrie himself. App updates, text messages, image transmissions, phone signals against masts, prove the phone was in a given area at a given time (BM).
6. How do we give more weight to the speculation? IMHO I suppose we only have the lack of sightings by CCTV persons, lack of sightings by the bin lorry (allegedly) and lack of visuals of Corrie on CCTV departing the area and suggestions that he left in a vehicle!

Again, IMHO.....WE NEED TO TIE DOWN THE PHONE TIMINGS TO ASCERTAIN CORRIE's MOVEMENTS IN THE 'HORSESHOE'.

Grrrrrrrr!


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[MidsummersDay]

Yes. I said this very early on. Although I think it was said the bin lorry man is quite old been with the company years so may not have one? Then again work early hours alone I would think work would provide one for safety if nothing else?

I would have thought being a single man operation and covered by vehicle CCTV (non recording), the very least that H&S would suggest is a cab phone?
JMO.


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