UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #14

[lusijay]

MrSeeker- as per the lengthy discussion in previous threads, there is not currently any stated evidence of the last BSE ping time. Happy to be corrected but whilst this remains the case any theory is based on a huge assumption and that's difficult to work from as a basis for an argument.

I'll have a look through what i've got Pil, and see if I can find anything that states a time or even a rough time. Even then it's hard, as it's a directional mast so it depends which direction the phone came from, as to the location accuracy. *advertiser censored*

 

[MidsummersDay]

In jeans and fashion boots after a night on the pop?

...and there my friend, you may have hit on the answer. Some members of this forum are civilians. Some members are ex military. Some members are military. SOME members are ex airborne. The clothes that you wear on a night out bare absolutely NO bearing on the attitude of the airborne warrior. IF Corrie was part of the airborne brethren, then sitting in a doorway getting your nice pair of clean white jeans and your Ralph Lauren shirt scruffy wouldn't matter. It's all in the psychology. The colder, smellier and wetter you are...the more determined you are. It's called grit. Adapt and overcome then excel.
With regards to the soft skinned fashion boots he was wearing...exactly the same as above.
I'm not suggesting this as my prime answer as I still have many that I'm thumbing through, but the target is BED. Target acquired. Crack on regardless. I can absolutely see him walking (tabbing) home. The path of least resistance would apply so it's I case of nav by the stars (remember my shoelace post in the earlier Threads?).
We know for a fact that mis truths have been offered. 'He couldn't have evaded the CCTV cameras...' Come on guys, there are several CCTV images of people who are still to be traced because they can't be identified! I offered up a lightened image of the '0334 man' that potentially showed shirt tails, rolled up sleeves and chinos in the shadows! We've even proved that 'Legs man' (who could be a woman for all we know?) could evade the cameras AND proved that the Greenwoods camera swivels to 'Eyelet' default when fast motion isn't detected in other locations! Even if he did evade the cameras (very probable in my mind), we've nearly proved that his phone and the bin lorry could have a most certainly have travelled towards BM at the same time regardless of the debate over pings, pongs, pegs, pigs or anything else we want to call the mast TX/RT footprint.
JMO


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[lusijay]

From Nicola's Q and A:

"His phone left barton mills at 4.25am in the same direction as the bin lorry and has last been triangulated at the micro mass at Barton Mills. This doesn’t mean it was at Barton Mills, it means it was between 3-5km near the mass and there are other roads that you could be on and phone would still triangulate at that Barton Mills mass although common sense says that if he's been in that area and the bin lorry has too, and both left and triangulated within 1 min an half of the bin lorry being there its most likely that the phone has been in the bin lorry."

And then from the timeline by midsummersday:
0425: Corrie's phone leaves the BSE mast area. Phone takes 28 minutes to reach the BM area. Link at 9 minute 9 seconds point. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v9IR-qslpEw
Bin lorry heads directly towards Barton Mills roundabout and then on to Waitrose at Mildenhall for a collection.
0453: Corrie's phone enters the BM mast area
http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/2016/11/...-been-checked/
0455: (Bin lorry is at Barton Mills roundabout.)

So this should mean that his phone pinged the second mast at about 4:55?

Let me know if I've worked that out wrong xx

 

[chickenbeakin]

Occams razor: I hope I spelt that right. IMO and for the sake of my new idea which may change tommorow. I dont think the recycling has anything to do with it, nor dogging sites, awol, hookups, or spying homeless people. I think it is quite simply that perhaps Corrie was an extrovert but a social butterfly as he navigates his way around the pub. You have some attractive lady in her 40's, coming up to the last roll of the dice. Already has her family, security of job, safe marriage but bored of the hum drum and is out one night. Corrie is charming the crowd and she finds she has the attention of him. He stands out and is goodlooking. They start to have a friendship and maybe even a promise of a future. Reality check on the 40 year old lady. She doesnt anticipate to have feelings , real or not but is she not ready to give it all up. Nope too much to lose. She agrees to meet with him one last time as he is upset or they are petering out. Unsure if she shows up goes to the normal pickup. She does or they are found out and its the partner that meets. Enraged. A confrontation. Corrie is taken to a place where he can be removed without being seen. This is just another line of thought.

 

[lusijay]

Occams razor: I hope I spelt that right. IMO and for the sake of my new idea which may change tommorow. I dont think the recycling has anything to do with it, nor dogging sites, awol, hookups, or spying homeless people. I think it is quite simply that perhaps Corrie was an extrovert but a social butterfly as he navigates his way around the pub. You have some attractive lady in her 40's, coming up to the last roll of the dice. Already has her family, security of job, safe marriage but bored of the hum drum and is out one night. Corrie is charming the crowd and she finds she has the attention of him. He stands out and is goodlooking. They start to have a friendship and maybe even a promise of a future. Reality check on the 40 year old lady. She doesnt anticipate to have feelings , real or not but is she not ready to give it all up. Nope too much to lose. She agrees to meet with him one last time as he is upset or they are petering out. Unsure if she shows up goes to the normal pickup. She does or they are found out and its the partner that meets. Enraged. A confrontation. Corrie is taken to a place where he can be removed without being seen. This is just another line of thought.

I like your theory and it could well fit, but could I ask why the lady has to be in her 40's? xx

 

[chickenbeakin]

I like your theory and it could well fit, but could I ask why the lady has to be in her 40's? xx

Ok that may detract from the content, I was thinking in lines of stability career and children more settled as older.

 

[Redgoblin]

Whatever happened I think he left the HS area voluntary, there is no sign of an altercation and things get messy in terms of imagining there may of been, and I think there would be more in the media about it, that said we don't get the bigger picture.

Something crossed my mind about getting lifts, I remember scanning maps of the area, and I know BM is just one area where the last ping data may of hit...

I was scanning the maps and there is a Barton Hill (I believe) to the north of BSE its a minor road but could it of been a route on the way to Honington , could it be possible that whoever gave Corrie a lift, went in the wrong direction mistaking what Corrie might have told them.

Hills, Mills... Pings, Pongs,

Gud knows...

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[mrseeker]

Most likely he is dead in one of the nearby fields, and when the farmers return to work them in the spring, he might be found. My most likely scenario is an accident due to alcohol, or suicide. There is always the possibility of murder, but the least likely.

 

[Kasabel]

I was also thinking this, just trying to get it all straight in my head!
C does look like he wants to carry on walking in the 3.24 CCTV but sees somewhere quiet for a wee and turns right into the HS. I'm not convinced someone calls him or he sees someone he knows, if someone called you your head/eyes would go up and his don't. For whatever reason, he doesn't stop in the HS for a wee but carries on walking tight right further down SB, out of sight of CCTV and into a waiting lift. I'm not convinced about 24/7 CCTV coverage as C could be out of sight in a split second, it's the early hours so plenty of shadows with rotating cameras and some that aren't even on. When we were discussing 'legs' he/she could barely be seen so I reckon it's possible.

So what I'm trying to get to is... could N and UT be looking at CCTV in the wrong place at the wrong time? C has already left the HS area, his lift didn't enter the HS and they're away in whatever direction where no one is checking because the assumption is that he stayed in the HS for an hour and in fact he was gone in seconds?

Happy for you all to pick some holes in this but my logical brain is sticking to Occam's razor as closely as possible!
Phone was with him.
Haven't worked out the rest of the story yet as my brain can't magic up a reasonable explanation until I work out how he got out the HS!

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Due to the bin lorry being the first vehicle entering HS at 4.20 and the phone seems to travel directionally and with the same speed as bin lorry this would mean that C would have had to have been in/around BSE until the phone starts to move which is over an hour later from when he entered HS. Therefore, he couldn't have left immediately unless he left his phone accidentally on the bin and it went into the bin lorry or unless it was disposed of by C or someone else when the bin lorry arrived.

If it wasn't disposed of as described above and was with C on movement/time running parallel with bin lorry movement and time (albeit not necessarily on the same road but any of the surrounding area from which pings can be picked up) this indicates that C remained in BSE for just over an hour after he was picked up by cctv entering HS.

 

[Kasabel]

Due to the bin lorry being the first vehicle entering HS at 4.20 and the phone seems to travel directionally and with the same speed as bin lorry this would mean that C would have had to have been in/around BSE until the phone starts to move which is over an hour later from when he entered HS. Therefore, he couldn't have left immediately unless he left his phone accidentally on the bin and it went into the bin lorry or unless it was disposed of by C or someone else when the bin lorry arrived.

If it wasn't disposed of as described above and was with C on movement/time running parallel with bin lorry movement and time (albeit not necessarily on the same road but any of the surrounding area from which pings can be picked up) this indicates that C remained in BSE for just over an hour after he was picked up by cctv entering HS.

Edit: Also add that there is no reason that it is necessarily the bin lorry the phone left with - if it wasn't with C and travelled without him it could have travelled by vehicle which matches direction and velocity of bin lorry provided that the direction is covered by the phone pings (I.e. Not necessarily in the same direction as such.

 

[Kasabel]

Therefore, if it is assumed that C travelled with his phone then he was for all intents and purposes in BSE for just over an hour after last sighting on cctv.

if C was not with his phone leaves the result that it was lost/disposed of and ended up travelling on its own in a vehicle.

If the former is taken to be true then C and his phone travelled in a direction but only an hour after he was last seen. Possibilities therefrom are that he was animate or inanimate when this occurred.

if the latter is taken to be true then C and his phone travelled separately and from this are a number possibilities that could have occurred to or by C and no specific timeframe can be surmised due to information limits (I.e. He could have left BSE immediately, he could have stayed in BSE for an indeterminate period of time, he could still be in BSE - all 3 of which cover either scenario of a i act or inanimate).

The only thing that can be mooted as possibilities are that C was separated from his phone a) willingly b)unwillingly or c)unaware (therefore either he was inanimate at time of seperation or it was lost without being noticed at the point of loss).

 

[Kasabel]

That last point should read "all 3 of which cover either scenario of either animate or inanimate"

 

[Kasabel]

I went back and read all i could find on the movement of the cell phone, garbage truck and the bin. The best I can find is, the phone last pinged in BSE "around" 4am. So i guess that could mean give or take several minutes. Then it pings in BM "around" 4:30 am. Does anyone have more precise times? Given about 30 minutes to travel, I suppose, the phone was travelling at 25 mph. Seems terribly slow for a truck. You would think the driver, as well as his own pda pings could verify if this timing is correct. Biffa has news stories it gives its driver's pda's to track time, weight, customer info, etc. So there has to be some info. He should know when and where his last pickup, and of course his route, approximate speed, and then when he arrives at his depot. I doubt he drove under 30 mph, so something needs to be explained. A bike might travel the route in this time. The truck could have if the "around times" are off about 10-15 mins. But this driver only explains the phone movements. It does nothing to explain where C was at the time. I notice there are at least 5 bins in the HS. Are they all Biffa? Are they all the same type? Nobody even knows C is gone until Monday. What about all the other trucks coming and going over the weekend, and on Monday. If he is dead in a bin, he might not be noticed in just a few days. Then there are the cars parked in the HS, by employees or perhaps residents.
I also think the cops need to really take a look again, if he could have walked out, or maybe never fully entered the HS. I am not convinced their cctv angles catch everything, but since we cannot see them, we can only take their word. I also think it is possible, someone gave him a lift for just a few miles, and he got out accidentally leaving his phone in a car heading towards Mindenhall. He might have decided to walk like he had said, and took off across the pastures and farmland. It was a 3/4 moon and he is still a bit drunk. It reminds me of all the young men found in water after walking away from a night of drinking.

It may not be that it was constantly travelling. The pings only verify the space of time between them. If it was a vehicle it could have made stops which would have also filled time in order that the space of travel is met at more reasonable speed but with 1 or more stops which used time. If you see what I mean. A car travelling at 30 mph at constant speed would reach 15 miles from start location in 30 minutes. However, there is no evidence to assume constant speed therefore stops or a stop could have been made.

The only thing that can be assumed is that C's phone left BSE at 4am and arrived within the vicinity to be picked up by the BM mast approx half an hour later. Wherever the two masts overlap are the points of exchange from mast to mast. I think someone put up (many threads ago now) a map of mast area and where they overlap. On this basis the phone could have picked up the BM signal at the nearest or further most point of the BM mast radius or anywhere in between. But I think it is fair to assume that none of these distances could be travelled on foot or by bike but must be some form of vehicular passage based on distance/time.

 

[Kasabel]

The bin lorry was in the horseshoe BSE 420-425, so if the phone was in BM at 430, it definitely wasn't in, on or under the lorry.

True that! I didn't notice this anomoly in the timeline! Or it could be the confusing of times and information being presented differently between Media sources which explains this as it seemed pretty determinate that the time/distance of travel was associated with the same as bin lorry. If that is not the case then the bin lorry can be completely ruled out.

 

[Kasabel]

I've just checked back on various msm sources all of which agree that C enters HS approx 0325, bin lorry enters and collects approx 40 mins later therefore it is within timeframe for reaching BM around the time of the phone pings.

 

[Kasabel]

Thanks for bumping that back up Coach.
just for anyone that wasn't on last thread, yesterday:


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-38536126

This is good as it narrows down the possibilities which are innumerable had C and his phone been separated. I would safely go with this theory on the basis that 1) this is being stated as the most plausible theory by experts and 2) the alternative gives too many options which would result in ever expanding search areas starting in and around HS which hasn't even been fully searched yet!

Assuming that C was with his phone and arrived in BM area around 0430 (ish) this means that from the time of entering HS at 0325 (ish) C remained in and around BSE until 0400 (ish) - so he remained in BSE for a further 30(ish) minutes after being seen entering HS. He was not visibly in HS when bin lorry arrived at 0400 (ish). The most sensible option would be to search all surrounding buildings while obtaining other phone mast pings from BM that connect noticeably to C's phone ping. If there is a ping that is located to be of interest it can be matched to owner and if that/those individuals can be identified with the HS area due to any factor. If C was inanimate when he left BSE then there is more than one individual involved in moving an 80kg dead weight. The only other option then being that he was animate when he left BSE which could be willingly or unwillingly (if the latter this could be achieved by one individual under duress).

I hope we get a bit more information on what's happening with MIS as at least they have a directional focus and method.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

Calculated correctly but specifically a statement of the last BSE ping. Leaving HS cannot be the last ping on the BSE mast due to its proximity to HS.

From Nicola's Q and A:

"His phone left barton mills at 4.25am in the same direction as the bin lorry and has last been triangulated at the micro mass at Barton Mills. This doesn’t mean it was at Barton Mills, it means it was between 3-5km near the mass and there are other roads that you could be on and phone would still triangulate at that Barton Mills mass although common sense says that if he's been in that area and the bin lorry has too, and both left and triangulated within 1 min an half of the bin lorry being there its most likely that the phone has been in the bin lorry."

And then from the timeline by midsummersday:
0425: Corrie's phone leaves the BSE mast area. Phone takes 28 minutes to reach the BM area. Link at 9 minute 9 seconds point. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=v9IR-qslpEw
Bin lorry heads directly towards Barton Mills roundabout and then on to Waitrose at Mildenhall for a collection.
0453: Corrie's phone enters the BM mast area
http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/2016/11/...-been-checked/
0455: (Bin lorry is at Barton Mills roundabout.)

So this should mean that his phone pinged the second mast at about 4:55?

Let me know if I've worked that out wrong xx

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

Bin lorry departs at 0424

I've just checked back on various msm sources all of which agree that C enters HS approx 0325, bin lorry enters and collects approx 40 mins later therefore it is within timeframe for reaching BM around the time of the phone pings.

 

[PilgrimsPrayer]

Please check this for inaccuracies on the timings and in relation to overlaps on cell towers (there isn't one).

It may not be that it was constantly travelling. The pings only verify the space of time between them. If it was a vehicle it could have made stops which would have also filled time in order that the space of travel is met at more reasonable speed but with 1 or more stops which used time. If you see what I mean. A car travelling at 30 mph at constant speed would reach 15 miles from start location in 30 minutes. However, there is no evidence to assume constant speed therefore stops or a stop could have been made.

The only thing that can be assumed is that C's phone left BSE at 4am and arrived within the vicinity to be picked up by the BM mast approx half an hour later. Wherever the two masts overlap are the points of exchange from mast to mast. I think someone put up (many threads ago now) a map of mast area and where they overlap. On this basis the phone could have picked up the BM signal at the nearest or further most point of the BM mast radius or anywhere in between. But I think it is fair to assume that none of these distances could be travelled on foot or by bike but must be some form of vehicular passage based on distance/time.

 

[Kasabel]

Please check this for inaccuracies on the timings and in relation to overlaps on cell towers (there isn't one).

Is there actually accurate data on times (distinguished from timeline which can be used as meaning of order of events)?

As regards the mast areas I referred back to a post that someone took time to create many threads ago. I am not designing to be completely accurate on times. And I am reluctant to firmly apply any 'times' coming throughout MSM due to their flux. Therefore, all of the above should be read within the perspective of chain of events. Nevertheless I don't think it is disputed anywhere on MSM that the time/distance of travel coincided with the time/distance of travel of the bin lorry.

Just to to point out and request if you are ultimately certain of the times you are giving could you please source them and if it is MSM be aware that times are variant, albeit not massively. Therefore, to be so determinative of time to the minute seems to be rather presumptive.