UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #19

[Aye]

I should imagine NU as a serving Police Officer will be feeling remarkably let down by the organisation she works for. That on top of everything must add additional pain and anguish. I am not police bashing but I find the above link absolutely disgraceful if true.

Scotland police were merged not only saving money but share experience across the force, England still has a pre technology antiquated system with IT and staff between forces bolt ons to the central point of police at the local force. Generally only when there is a investigation done by another force/PCC AFTER the facts. The lessons of Ian Huntly have still not been learnt.

 

[Aye]

Hmm, that doesn't quite fit with what the police have implied

The amount of murders/suspicious deaths the press report and what police actually deal with miles apart. Many deaths police find as non suspicious are infact such, you have to follow the clues and you cant train a great officer that is instinct just like a entrepreneur. What police know (or think they know) and what they release for obvious reasons, again miles apart.

 

[pinklilies]

If it wasn't the usual driver was it the usual lorry? Could it have been a general waste lorry that emptied the recycling bin, hence going to landfill. Having said that, I'm sure the lorry must be on cctv.


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[Insp.Dots]

Today I was working in a different location to my normal one and was given a desk overlooking the bin area at the workplace.

Having been able to spend time looking at the sie of the bins, which I think were the same size as the ones in the HS, I can't see how a tall man could fit in without being doubled up, the floor area is too small to be in anything other than a fetal position which doesn't IMO fit with C wanting to sleep some more but otoh I can't see how one person could physically lift another into a bin by themselves.

I'm still confused

I thought about this too, but whoever could have laid the bin down on its side rolled body in and then lifted the bin...still hard work but do-able!

 

[crystal_Tips]

Corrie's car didn't have back seats apparently. it was a 2 seater

 

[Deleted member 189081]

Corrie's car didn't have back seats apparently. it was a 2 seater

I must admit I would still prefer a 2 seater rather than a bin .I would say the passenger side is not to bad to nod off in as your legs are almost horizontal in any case and your back and head supported. My OH quite happily nodded off in mine the other day he is 5ft 10 I don't think he did it because he was tired I think he just wished he was driving instead of me. Just an observation.

 

[Reallyodd]

Sitting here having a quiet ponder imagining scenarios about how C got to the landfill without detection, if he is in fact there. My first point is if the bin lorry is operated to lift a bin that is full of cardboard surely the bin man would have heard a body (C being a well built lad) dropping into the back I'm sure it would have been more noisier than cardboard given that it was the early hours of the morning and there would not be much other noise about, would the actual lifting part (don't know its proper name) not slightly struggle under the weight of a body I am sure a bin full of cardboard would still be no where near the weight of a human body? Maybe not ok then but, there is apparently no DNA in that bin either (also I'm struggling to believe that) then we have the thought of a crushing mechanism (sorry not a nice thought) crushing all the cardboard but, still we have no DNA in the bin lorry! Then did the bin go straight to the landfill is that a process that is open 24 hours to dump rubbish? we are told that there is no sign of him on other checks like before rubbish goes to the incinerator so how the hell was he totally missed. Does anyone know if the landfill does have organic material there just wondering if food is sent there as where I am from we have a special bin for recycling food. So many ifs and buts going around in my head something is just not adding up for me!

I agree that the binman should have realised that something was not right. If C was in the bin the driver would surely have wondered why the bin was so heavy to move to the back of the truck. Lack of DNA could be because it was some time after C went missing before forensics were done and I am sure the lorry would have been cleaned during the intervening time. We don't know if the load went straight to landfill or not, but MOO is that it didn't, or at least, not straightaway. The landfill site is not open 24 hours and I think I have seen somewhere in my recent research on this, that there is a number to call if you need the landfill out of hours. It would be very suspect if that was used.

Could you tell me please, where and when we were told there was no sign of him through the other checks? As far as I am aware, nobody has confirmed that the load was taken to a Waste Transfer Site, or processed. The only clue to that, and I am not certain that it definitely means it was checked, was said yesterday by the police, whatever her name is, in the interview at the landfill site, something to the effect that they didn't think he would be in landfill originally because of the processing the waste would go through and it was, at that time, and I quote: "likely, Corrie would have been identified before he got here" (approx 14 mins 10 secs in the video). We can't be sure whether that means he was missed at the WTS or if the load was not processed at all.

Another video on BBC Look East FB page, there is a video of the live report from the site and at 8 mins 52 secs in, the reporter says "Police knew that load came here"

Waste food goes to a WTS too. In fact, just about all waste goes, or should go, to a WTS first to be sorted/baled and then sent to the appropriate facility.

 

[Yorkshirelass]

In going to ask something and even before I type it sounds daft ... but if 4 minute man didn't see anything at all .... realistically how long would it take someone to look in a bin to select which was suitable to sleep in I.e clean, cardboard. Then lift the lid, climb in close the lid and not be seen ?? 4 minutes plus a few seconds for C to walk in HS plus few seconds for 4mm to exit .... doesn't seem a long time in my opinion !!

 

[Aye]

Sitting here having a quiet ponder imagining scenarios about how C got to the landfill without detection, if he is in fact there. My first point is if the bin lorry is operated to lift a bin that is full of cardboard surely the bin man would have heard a body (C being a well built lad) dropping into the back I'm sure it would have been more noisier than cardboard given that it was the early hours of the morning and there would not be much other noise about, would the actual lifting part (don't know its proper name) not slightly struggle under the weight of a body I am sure a bin full of cardboard would still be no where near the weight of a human body? Maybe not ok then but, there is apparently no DNA in that bin either (also I'm struggling to believe that) then we have the thought of a crushing mechanism (sorry not a nice thought) crushing all the cardboard but, still we have no DNA in the bin lorry! Then did the bin go straight to the landfill is that a process that is open 24 hours to dump rubbish? we are told that there is no sign of him on other checks like before rubbish goes to the incinerator so how the hell was he totally missed. Does anyone know if the landfill does have organic material there just wondering if food is sent there as where I am from we have a special bin for recycling food. So many ifs and buts going around in my head something is just not adding up for me!

These trucks as proven by Glasgow are H&S liabilities by design, with few safety features and what ones they do have ignored by operatives, even distracted for a second from watching contents unload (manual dustbin men had no choice) in the manner to speed waste collection up and not implement a national recycling policy in law in doing such is poor show, how many bodies have been lost forever ?

Between the noise of operation, running (diesel) engine and cardboard acting as sound insulation for any heavy object dropping the onus is on the operatives eyes to 1) weight (and investigation under H&S) 2) what is going in before 'crushing' so it is easily missed if not in 100% training (or lack of) mode. It just should not happen.

The truck would not struggle but the weight scale should & in my opinion have a alarm of heavier than expected load so if the operative misses the scale warning visually it stops automatically (and visually records manual investigation intervention). Had a legislative measure of national recycling policy and refuse collection with H&S standards for these new wheelie bin trucks been implemented when introduced to the UK...lead by example, now that example is #brexit & hate crimes.

Camera footage of what went in to recycling/incinerator belts is probably not recorded by H&S legislation or even needs to be there in place, even so all this time later if the site had recordings under DPA they would have been rerecorded over or destroyed after the minimum 30 days.


Waste/recycling collection & disposal has minimal H&S and recording requirements, given we have one planet is absurd, and we now have highly publicised case of why that requirement of national legislation is needed things slip between the cracks including mammals.

Paper & cardboard collected repeatedly and sitting inside could and would absorb any kind of fluid including its DNA content.


.

 

[Deleted member 189081]

In going to ask something and even before I type it sounds daft ... but if 4 minute man didn't see anything at all .... realistically how long would it take someone to look in a bin to select which was suitable to sleep in I.e clean, cardboard. Then lift the lid, climb in close the lid and not be seen ?? 4 minutes plus a few seconds for C to walk in HS plus few seconds for 4mm to exit .... doesn't seem a long time in my opinion !!

TBH I would say 2 mins max. It took him approx 22 seconds to walk across Brentgoval Street then disappear out of sight. He would have looked in the first bin available (Greggs) and thought that will do.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Hmm, that doesn't quite fit with what the police have implied

My thought when I read this was the same. The two versions don't match and I wondered if there are issues between these two police officers at all. JMO.

 

[Cherwell]

If you mean what are their names then we don't know, if you mean how do they feature in the case they are names given to two people that have been seen in CCTV footage or spoken about by the family that some people think might be involved in C's disappearance as they were in in the HS area around the same time as he was

Thank you, Cagney gave me the details in post 707.

 

[Taskforce88]

These trucks as proven by Glasgow are H&S liabilities by design, with few safety features and what ones they do have ignored by operatives, even distracted for a second from watching contents unload (manual dustbin men had no choice) in the manner to speed waste collection up and not implement a national recycling policy in law in doing such is poor show, how many bodies have been lost forever ?

Between the noise of operation, running (diesel) engine and cardboard acting as sound insulation for any heavy object dropping the onus is on the operatives eyes to 1) weight (and investigation under H&S) 2) what is going in before 'crushing' so it is easily missed if not in 100% training (or lack of) mode. It just should not happen.

The truck would not struggle but the weight scale should & in my opinion have a alarm of heavier than expected load so if the operative misses the scale warning visually it stops automatically (and visually records manual investigation intervention). Had a legislative measure of national recycling policy and refuse collection with H&S standards for these new wheelie bin trucks been implemented when introduced to the UK...lead by example, now that example is #brexit & hate crimes.

Camera footage of what went in to recycling/incinerator belts is probably not recorded by H&S legislation or even needs to be there in place, even so all this time later if the site had recordings under DPA they would have been rerecorded over or destroyed after the minimum 30 days.


Waste/recycling collection & disposal has minimal H&S and recording requirements, given we have one planet is absurd, and we now have highly publicised case of why that requirement of national legislation is needed things slip between the cracks including mammals.

Paper & cardboard collected repeatedly and sitting inside could and would absorb any kind of fluid including its DNA content.


.

Here in North Ayrshire a lot of the binmen wear ear phones for music so that on top of the rattle of the bin, diesel engine and watching out for traffic, well there is so much distraction and other noises.

 

[Yorkshirelass]

Seems like the whole night for Corrie was just an unfortunate chain of events .... missed opportunities, wrong turns, missed sightings ..... I know it's life but Christ how unlucky can one lad and his poor family be ... the what ifs and If onlys have consumed his family and a couple of hundred thousand of us for six months

 

[Taskforce88]

Seems like the whole night for Corrie was just an unfortunate chain of events .... missed opportunities, wrong turns, missed sightings ..... I know it's life but Christ how unlucky can one lad and his poor family be ... the what ifs and If onlys have consumed his family and a couple of hundred thousand of us for six months

I dunno, maybe that was a typical night out for him with the exception of going missing.

 

[Aye]

I must admit I would still prefer a 2 seater rather than a bin .I would say the passenger side is not to bad to nod off in as your legs are almost horizontal in any case and your back and head supported. My OH quite happily nodded off in mine the other day he is 5ft 10 I don't think he did it because he was tired I think he just wished he was driving instead of me. Just an observation.

Being in a car over the limit is not a good option for anyone esp a serviceman, drugs/drink/hypothermia could have led to confusion over even where his car was located.

The fact is how many men given the closure of public toilets for decades are now forced 1) break the law 2) seek obscure places
to urinate and to a lesser extent females put themselves at risk of attack.

In Glasgow city centre leaving clubs I have used the toilets downstairs from street level drunk several times, recent visit found them 20p autoloos and with only a bankcard I asked a few fellow clubbers for 20p to no avail, I had to go down a dark lane nearby fully aware I had a few drinks and vulnerable - no one thinks about that, very few.


Again the local council cost of say £20000 a year for public toilets is dwarfed by a 1 police investigation cost for a murder in a lane, but the local council don't care about another gov dept budget just theirs. Counterproductive use of tax money.

C went to urinate is highly possibly and that now has cost SP how much ? But its ok the local council budget is protected. ??


Surely having a safe place to evacuate with our trousers at our ankles in a very vulnerable situation (let alone under the influence) is the least tax payers should demand from their tax/Council Tax. And one police should support to save their own budgets, let alone NHS - people found passed out drunk up side streets/lanes to urinate.

My city centre has ONE 8-8pm MANNED? 30p chargeable toilet away from the city centre, the risk of assault goes up tenfold if not more .

Frankly I would hand parks & toilets to NHS marked with no closures in legislation, encourage use of them, people with bladder/colon issues & disabled people are very limited these days outdoors, 1 murder cost outweighs the balance of cost to the public purse let alone those who need to participate in walking/exercise the most.

C goes for a pee, the worst happens and it costs 1 million pound ? Absolutely no logic in public service delivery (or lack of).

 

[Pooks101]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...lice-confident-missing-raf-gunner-will-found/

About half way down this article there's a bit that says a bin lorry was seen on CCTV stationed near Brentgovel Street on the night C went missing. Is this made up or another bit of info we weren't aware of? Why would a bin lorry be stationed there, surely it would just drive in and out after emptying one bin in 4 minutes?


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[Hexenb]

I agree that the binman should have realised that something was not right. If C was in the bin the driver would surely have wondered why the bin was so heavy to move to the back of the truck. Lack of DNA could be because it was some time after C went missing before forensics were done and I am sure the lorry would have been cleaned during the intervening time. We don't know if the load went straight to landfill or not, but MOO is that it didn't, or at least, not straightaway. The landfill site is not open 24 hours and I think I have seen somewhere in my recent research on this, that there is a number to call if you need the landfill out of hours. It would be very suspect if that was used.

Could you tell me please, where and when we were told there was no sign of him through the other checks? As far as I am aware, nobody has confirmed that the load was taken to a Waste Transfer Site, or processed. The only clue to that, and I am not certain that it definitely means it was checked, was said yesterday by the police, whatever her name is, in the interview at the landfill site, something to the effect that they didn't think he would be in landfill originally because of the processing the waste would go through and it was, at that time, and I quote: "likely, Corrie would have been identified before he got here" (approx 14 mins 10 secs in the video). We can't be sure whether that means he was missed at the WTS or if the load was not processed at all.

Another video on BBC Look East FB page, there is a video of the live report from the site and at 8 mins 52 secs in, the reporter says "Police knew that load came here"

Waste food goes to a WTS too. In fact, just about all waste goes, or should go, to a WTS first to be sorted/baled and then sent to the appropriate facility.

When I mentioned about other checks I meant that if there had of been other checks (which I think it may have been Nicola that referred to them) C would not have gone through the process of not being found even down to incineration he could not have been completely dissolved as such this was a scenario playing through my head personally I think he went straight to the landfill if he is there. I don't know anything about cleaning out the back of a bin lorry but, I imagine if C had been in there it would not be a pretty sight also if the back had of been cleaned I have my CSI head on thinking about luminol which I believe would show up blood even after cleaning. The reason I mentioned about food waste etc was if C was at the landfill I would think maybe the smell of decay would attract birds etc to a certain part of the landfill all just my thoughts written down.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Seems like the whole night for Corrie was just an unfortunate chain of events .... missed opportunities, wrong turns, missed sightings ..... I know it's life but Christ how unlucky can one lad and his poor family be ... the what ifs and If onlys have consumed his family and a couple of hundred thousand of us for six months

Apparently it was a normal night out for C according to family. Nothing unusual except he went missing.

 

[mrseeker]

We really don't know if he got in the bin voluntarily, though circumstances suggest that. Supposedly bin trunk drivers open the bins and look inside before collections, but I would think it doesn't happen like the companies want. Perhaps some procedure could be put in place, during cooler nights, to check for drunks. Maybe they just stop picking up in the middle of the night. Some of the people who have been found dead from bins, died of exposure before collection. I am hoping C was unconscious and never felt a thing if this was his fate.