UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #2

[Deleted member 178385]

The only thing related to the landfill and the phrase 'released this back' is the bin lorry itself. It was originally reported that the bin lorry had been 'seized' when they realised the timings matched, so it would make sense for the bin lorry itself to have been 'released back'.

In fact, the whole paragraph does mention the bin lorry:

"A bin lorry which was in the exact area that Corrie was last seen has made the journey from Bury to Barton Mills, within a few minutes of Corrie’s phone arriving. The police have since made the decision not to search the landfill and released this back."

So I think 'released this back' refers to the seizing of the bin lorry and subsequent release.

 

[suzyjackson]

Funny you should say this as in the beginning someone asked why no footage of him asleep in the door way was released and the reply was because it's too distressing. Hmmmm

Can you remember who said that, I'd like to see that quote, I'm pretty sure that's new info for the thread

 

[hermes&&]

This is interesting don't you think?...
"Bury to Barton Mills, within a few minutes of Corrie’s phone arriving. The police have since made the decision not to search the landfill and released this back.".

Release what back, the landfill....the PHONE?

This means that the police have told the landfill operator they can resume tipping at the site as normal. It must have previously been frozen pending search.

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[suzyjackson]

Also on the official website:

"3.24am to around 4.30am: Police were able to trace Corrie’s mobile phone from Bury to the Barton Mills area, near Mildenhall, at a speed only a vehicle could travel at."

So the phone ping in Barton Mills is sometime after 3.24 and on/before 4.30.

Could it be possible that the bin lorry got to BM closer to 4am, and the bin lorry driver saw the teens on his way back (home? end of night shift?) at 4.20?

Good point, there isn't enough information to be sure either way but that would make mroe sense than the sighting being before the lorry headed to BM

 

[suzyjackson]

This means that the police have told the landfill operator they can resume tipping at the site as normal. It must have previously been frozen pending search.

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Interesting then that they had a search in mind at one time then decided not to, makes you wonder what made then change their minds

 

[hermes&&]

Interesting then that they had a search in mind at one time then decided not to, makes you wonder what made then chaneg their minds

I had thought they had done a search at the landfill, hence my previous adamant posts that he wasn't there.

I'm not sure where I'd picked that idea up from. I'm not sure now it had been searched.

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[c4nd1_83]

I personally think they have been searching the wrong routes. Has there not been a search along the same route the bin lorry took? All ive seen is routes back to camp. Routes to RAF Midenhall? I mean if the phone went that way surely thats the way to go with the search.


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[Amonet]

I had thought they had done a search at the landfill, hence my previous adamant posts that he wasn't there.

I'm not sure where I'd picked that idea up from. I'm not sure now it had been searched.

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I Google searched Corrie's name with 'landfill' to try to find it, but I couldn't find it. I thought I had read somewhere that the police had searched the landfill area that's active but came up empty and ended the search. I just can't work out where I might have read that?

 

[Amonet]

I think at this point it's worth reviewing all the updates on this page, which give a loose rundown of activities by police and related services, and also reiterate at each step of the way what appeals the police are making to the public.

https://www.suffolk.police.uk/news/missing-persons/corrie-mckeague

I can't see any mention of landfill in any of those updates, so maybe that was in one of the media articles?

 

[suzyjackson]

I had thought they had done a search at the landfill, hence my previous adamant posts that he wasn't there.

I'm not sure where I'd picked that idea up from. I'm not sure now it had been searched.

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I Google searched Corrie's name with 'landfill' to try to find it, but I couldn't find it. I thought I had read somewhere that the police had searched the landfill area that's active but came up empty and ended the search. I just can't work out where I might have read that?

I think we were allowed to believe that landfill searches had been done, it may never have been explicitly said and it's only with the thunderclap update that it's been "confirmed" that no search has been carried out. I use quotes as I'm sceptical about everything now.

 

[JamesKing]

From what I can gleam from the two info releases, so....

That area of town (Short Brackland loading area ?) is apparently known for drug deals and unsavoury people.
Corrie isn't into drugs

In the doorway people did come up to him, likely to see if he was okay.
Nothing can be seen on CCTV to suggest he was mugged in the doorway, although that is a rumour in Bury.

The mates he went out with did wonder where he was. They didn't phone him.
They got their taxi back to base

At around 4am the phone pings between Bury and Barton
The final ping was in the Barton area just after 4am
Corries phone arrived in Barton within a few minutes of the bin lorry.
The phone last pinged to a mast in Barton, this last ping was at 4.20am

Then there is some speculation about if he walked or was in a vehicle.
Some of it I don't understand, but here it is.

Walking. The only way he could have left Bury unseen would be if a sizeable van or lorry was parked in front of one of the cameras that would have picked him up, therefore obscured the view and blocked Corrie as he walked past.

My note.
I don't get that. Do they mean the one camera that's on a sweep, or are they talking about another camera ?
The sweep one wouldn't necessarily see him anyway. There are some in the market square however.

Vehicle. Nicola was asked if all the vehicles that left Bury between 3.24am and 4.20am have been checked by CCTV and ANPR, however because of the market stalls being set up, there were a large number of vehicles there.
This is still a work in progress as there are hundred to go through.

My note
And I didn't know that !

Waiting. After analysis, nothing can be seen from his body language to suggest he was waiting for someone. He made no calls, suggesting if he was, he didn't have their contact details, which would be unusual. However, he is awake at 03.08am and waits until 03.24am before he gets up. Due to that, it can not be ruled in or ruled out.


Barton Mills. Various places named for "dogging" and "gay dogging". It is noted that it is "highly suspicious" that his phone pinged near such dodgy areas. The note does confirm Corrie is straight.

The phone going off. It isn't understood if it was manually turned off or it ran out of battery.


There are some other issues raised after this, in question format. One or two stand out. Not sure what to make of them, but they do make you think. I'll come back to them later.

 

[JamesKing]

There are various baffling things to make sense of.

The timing of the pings.

If Corrie has his phone when he enters the loading bay area, that's where it is at 3.25am
The phone pings between Bury and Barton at around 4.00am.
And the last ping, in the Barton area is 4.20am
Previously it was said the phone took 28 minutes to get from Bury to Barton.

How long was it pinging in Bury for after 3.25am ? How long was it pinging in Barton for prior to 4.20am ?
There's 55 minutes to consider OF WHICH 28 minutes is "travel time".
So that's 27 minutes, placed either in Bury or Barton or split unevenly by the two places.

The traffic in the area

Seems like there were "hundreds" of vehicles in the area, a number to do with the market. So logically they'd be in the Market Square. From where Corrie is, he would have to pass through the Market Square to get to the taxi rank.
It would depend on which sweep the CCTV in the area was on, if they'd have seen him or not.

A purposeful walk.

This bit has me stumped. It is said that Corrie was kicked out of Flex at "just after 1.00am" and headed for the take-away. He left the take-away and seen by CCTV at 1.20am.
He'd ordered "a lot of food" and it appears that he is "walking with conviction across the street as though he knows where he is going". Corrie is not looking around for a bench or somewhere else to sit. It appears he is heading straight for that shop doorway.
Personally, I have never considered that, but that is how it was put.

The next bit is even more bizarre. It is to do with the last man to speak to Corrie. It is said that, it is known he asked Corrie if he wanted a lift back to base. It is said that Corrie must have said "No" and given a reason "why" he did not want a lift. BUT surely if this man has told the police he did offer a lift to Corrie... then this man would have told them what Corrie's reply had been ? I don't get it !

 

[MidsummersDay]

Good point, there isn't enough information to be sure either way but that would make mroe sense than the sighting being before the lorry headed to BM

I'm intrigued with this also. Do we have any Comms experts here to clarify?
My ignorant question could explain it: We're lead to believe that the phone was tracked by the way the phone apps were updated. After a bit of research it seems a low level app would update about once a month. A high level app with lots of data to monitor, around once a week. If as the police state, they were able to track the phone to the Barton Mills mast area that would suggest an algorithm with quite a few constants (ie quite a few apps to update all remarkably between 0324 and 0800 when thereafter the phone went dead or switched off into power save mode).

My question is this: If the phone was updating during that time frame using the Barton Mills and BSE masts...is it a simple switched handshake from mast area to mast area or is the signal followed exactly like a gps?

Also through my limited research, the stated mast was Barton Mills mast. Barton Mills mast is a Vodaphone mast. Would the phone use ONLY Vodaphone masts onroute or defer to the nearest mast regardless?

 

[suzyjackson]

I'm intrigued with this also. Do we have any Comms experts here to clarify?
My ignorant question could explain it: We're lead to believe that the phone was tracked by the way the phone apps were updated. After a bit of research it seems a low level app would update about once a month. A high level app with lots of data to monitor, around once a week. If as the police state, they were able to track the phone to the Barton Mills mast area that would suggest an algorithm with quite a few constants (ie quite a few apps to update all remarkably between 0324 and 0800 when thereafter the phone went dead or switched off into power save mode).

My question is this: If the phone was updating during that time frame using the Barton Mills and BSE masts...is it a simple switched handshake from mast area to mast area or is the signal followed exactly like a gps?

Also through my limited research, the stated mast was Barton Mills mast. Barton Mills mast is a Vodaphone mast. Would the phone use ONLY Vodaphone masts onroute or defer to the nearest mast regardless?

I think the apps updating is a red herring. The only reference I've seen to that is Nicola saying that they know when comms with the phone stopped because of lack of apps updates.

I'm not a phone expert but have followed many cases and am as sure as I can be that the phone movements will have been tracked by pings with the masts as it moved along i.e. the "I'm here" signals sent by the phone continually whilst it has battery life. These can't provide an accurate route map but can give the general direction of travel and indicate when a phone has stopped moving. I don't think the provider of the phone mast determines whether a phone can ping with it, afaik any phone can ping with any mast but it won't necessarily be the nearest one to it.

Happy to be corrected by experts in this field

 

[MidsummersDay]

BSE to Barton Mills mast is 12 miles roughly. That's a speed of between 11-20mph between masts unless the alleged vehicle was a faster on than a bin lorry and zig zagged its way there!

Are we allowed to post homemade visual aids on this forum?

 

[Amonet]

I haven't done a comprehensive search, but this is what I've found referring to landfill.

"The fact it went off at Barton Mills was the reason the police searched the rubbish tip, as the phone was communicating there.

"The fact it hasn't been found is unfortunate but searching places like that is very difficult."
"My guess is the most likely reason for this is that there were other people or a person involved."
​

– COLIN SUTTON, RETIRED DETECTIVE CHIEF INSPECTOR

http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2016...e-corrie-mckeague-didnt-disappear-on-purpose/

And, in his update dated 25th October, "Uncle Tony" Wringe posted:

Corrie’s black Nokia Lumia phone is still outstanding. It is possible that it made its way to the rubbish tip in the Dustbin Lorry - we don’t know. The Police have chosen not to continue the search of the refuse sites. If it went there it may have been destroyed, but will not now be found there.

It's hard to tell from these two quotes whether it was actually landfill that was searched, or if it was sites at the refuse centre or what. There might be additional quotes out there, but it was time-consuming just to find these two.

 

[Amonet]

BSE to Barton Mills mast is 12 miles roughly. That's a speed of between 11-20mph between masts unless the alleged vehicle was a faster on than a bin lorry and zig zagged its way there!

Are we allowed to post homemade visual aids on this forum?

If you're talking about a homemade map, then those are usually coveted by users of the forum. I don't know every rule of the forum, but I would just make sure to notate any image upload with either where it came from or that it's self-made.

 

[suzyjackson]

I haven't done a comprehensive search, but this is what I've found referring to landfill.


http://www.itv.com/news/anglia/2016...e-corrie-mckeague-didnt-disappear-on-purpose/

And, in his update dated 25th October, "Uncle Tony" Wringe posted:



It's hard to tell from these two quotes whether it was actually landfill that was searched, or if it was sites at the refuse centre or what. There might be additional quotes out there, but it was time-consuming just to find these two.

It would seem that Colin Sutton might have also made the same assumption as everyone else about landfill searches. When he said that the family must have also been under the impression that a seacrh had been done or IMO they would have corrected the misinformation straight away

 

[Amonet]

I've just seen a post by Nicola on the FB page. I'll type it out instead of screenshot though.

Nicola Urquhart the rubbish that was picked up was taken to the landfill. Although the area was secured initially. A decision was made that it was too big a job and they might not even find anything. The family tried really hard to talk to police about this decision but the landfill was released back without allowing discussion first.

 

[guruagain]

Amonet - That is just crazy. How many weeks? Initially we are told its card and paper - why is that going to a landfill? How can they be 100% certain that Corrie is not also in that landfill. They may have weighed the bin but that doesn't stop him for being foolish and jumping on the back for a ride and going in the back?