UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #20

[Coach]

I love reading about Websleuthers experiments! That's great.

Wish you'd taken video!

Thanks Amonet - fingers crossed my daughter doesn't write about our experiment at school tomorrow!! Knowing here she probably will, I can see it now "mum put me in the bin"��

 

[Coach]

This is probably far out so apologies in advance if this offends anyone. Someone posted that the Biffa bin looks too small for someone to sleep in. What if C needed the toilet (no 2), there wouldn't have been any toilets open at that time were there? After eating all the food, drinking and sleeping, could he have got into the bin to do the toilet? Also, were all the street lights working properly in the HS that morning, it would have been pretty dark for the lorry reversing if they were not lit. If C had been sitting on the ground the lorry driver might not have been able to see him, he would have been concentrating on the reverse.

 

[Shiressleuth]

I have just found a bbc source of 04.20 for the bin lorry arriving. Quite a bit different from our timeline. Am wondering if we can correct ours now we actually have a source.?

(GT - How can we update the timeline ? )

Am typing in the link so hoping it works.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-39200319

Doesn't look like the link is posting right for me as a clickable link but that is the correct address for the article.if someone wants to check it out.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Also, were all the street lights working properly in the HS that morning, it would have been pretty dark for the lorry reversing if they were not lit. If C had been sitting on the ground the lorry driver might not have been able to see him, he would have been concentrating on the reverse.

If you play the cctv of running man on the find corrie website, you can see it is quite well lit. That was 03.40 and the bin lorry was there at 04.20 so it should have been similar lighting. Daylight would have been around 06.30 a.m. time as it was close to the autumn equinox so lights should still have been on.

 

[Amonet]

This is probably far out so apologies in advance if this offends anyone. Someone posted that the Biffa bin looks too small for someone to sleep in. What if C needed the toilet (no 2), there wouldn't have been any toilets open at that time were there? After eating all the food, drinking and sleeping, could he have got into the bin to do the toilet? Also, were all the street lights working properly in the HS that morning, it would have been pretty dark for the lorry reversing if they were not lit. If C had been sitting on the ground the lorry driver might not have been able to see him, he would have been concentrating on the reverse.

Even if he'd knocked his head on the side of the bin, you'd expect him to wake up well before the bin lorry arrived? It was about an hour afterwards?

I think it's possible that he got into a bin to sleep and then aspirated vomit. But if he was asleep I think he probably wouldn't be aware enough to get up and shout in time

 

[Amonet]

I have just found a bbc source of 04.20 for the bin lorry arriving. Quite a bit different from our timeline. Am wondering if we can correct ours now we actually have a source.?

(GT - How can we update the timeline ? )

Am typing in the link so hoping it works.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-39200319

Doesn't look like the link is posting right for me as a clickable link but that is the correct address for the article.if someone wants to check it out.

Mrs Urquhart previously reported the bin lorry went in to the "horseshoe" area of Bury St Edmunds at about 04:20 BST, just under an hour after Mr Mckeague was last seen.

It says "about" 4.20, so that's pretty close to the time of 4.19 that we had before?

 

[Greater Than]

I have just found a bbc source of 04.20 for the bin lorry arriving. Quite a bit different from our timeline. Am wondering if we can correct ours now we actually have a source.?

(GT - How can we update the timeline ? )

Am typing in the link so hoping it works.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-suffolk-39200319

Doesn't look like the link is posting right for me as a clickable link but that is the correct address for the article.if someone wants to check it out.

I can edit MidsummersDay's post.

TW said the following in his 5th January update, which would be approx 4:05. Maybe this is where MidsummersDay got 4:00 from?

The Bin Lorry that arrived in the early hours of Saturday morning (around 40 minutes after Corrie went into the Horseshoe)

http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/the-bin-lorrys-refuse-sites-update-5th-january-2017/

I will change it to the 4:20 time NU stated in the article you linked, though. That seems more accurate as that is also the time the driver saw the three teens in the horseshoe.

 

[Coach]

Did anyone else see the three teens other than the driver?? Were they identified?

 

[Amonet]

Did anyone else see the three teens other than the driver?? Were they identified?

In the early days, Nicola said that some private CCTV caught the three teens. They were identified and spoken to...I think there was an update to that effect on the Suffolk Police website.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

In the early days, Nicola said that some private CCTV caught the three teens. They were identified and spoken to...I think there was an update to that effect on the Suffolk Police website.

I still feel that the 'private' CCTV was just the CSC rear cameras. Backed up somewhat by Nicolas's walkabout video and Tony's CCTV graphic. No mention of private home CCTV.

 

[Spyder84]

Regarding the weight of the bin, I did have a thought that maybe the reset button could have been hit. When you bake, you place a bowl on a weighing scale, once the weight of the bowl is weighed, you hit reset and start weighing the correct weights of ingredients, but if the reset button were to be re-hit again, it would go back to 0.00 despite the weight of the contents in the bowl- Could that be what caused the error in data - however I do tend to think 110 was read as 11.0 - Maybe that was a typo

Regarding foul play - As much as I still think it could have been an accident involving C dropping his phone in the bin and going in after it, theres still the fact that there was a significant timeframe between C going missing and be reported missing, we're talking well over 24 hours, adequate time to destroy any evidence, if it was foul play then possibly the person somehow evaded cctv, as we now know, the cctv was not static and had momentary lapses......... I also cant help but think if this is foul play then that time frame has enabled someone to be able to muddy the waters hence why there are so many questions and answers that all seem so contradictory

 

[Spyder84]

In addition to my last post - Could it be the case that C was involved in an altercation with someone and when biffa turned up for the collection C was pulled out of sight behind another bin - I just think there was so much time that passed that is plausible to think C may have been there for a while and someone went back to move him - I dont think its ever been made clear if every second of cctv was checked over that period of C going missing and being reported and as for lack of forensics, there would not necessarily have to be blood/tissues as its possible there could have been an internal injury - I am also not sure if dogs ever searched the HS but, there was a case locally a while back, young lad went missing after crashing his car, dogs were brought in a day or two later, and found nothing, the lads body was found nearby a few weeks later, it then emerged that some dogs can only trace scent in the first few hours and the conclusion was, if dogs had been brought in sooner, that lad may have been found alive........

 

[Reallyodd]

Apologies, but I am going to throw a spanner in the works. Having read the latest news and posts here and thinking about the things LE have said, there seems to be a lot of anomalies which has created confusion. I was going to mention each thing and put in a link to the relevant site, but it appears that a lot more has now been deleted, including SP's updates before November 2016. I had gone through the previous updates last week making notes, but these updates are no longer there. The same has happened on FC site too, or has been amended with previous information given by SP removed.

SP Update 2 October 2016: C may have been in Mildenhall area between 4.30am and 8am

SP Update 3 October 2016: referring to the phone: Barton Mills area - it doesn't move after this.

SP Update of 10 October 2016: "There isn't 100% coverage in the area" and "it's a possibility he may have attempted to walk home but is not on CCTV"

SP Update of 17 October 2016: repeated that there is not 100% CCTV

FC website update of 3.08am picture received as per my quote in my post of 19th February when it was still there.
Link to my post: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...tember-2016-17/page55&p=13156709#post13156709
The quote was: "ETA: From FC site: "We all know that corrie sent a photo via an app at 3.08…… however the FACT as I have now had confirmed by police, is the photo was RECEIVED at 3.08, I do not actually know the exact time it was sent.I have been told by police it was between 01.10 and 04.19 that his phone was on the mast but they do not know when it was sent." BBM
That's the time the phone was on the BSE mast til.

The things that we have been told since:

Bin lorry collecting recycling arrived at BSE HS at 4.20am (that can only mean that C's phone was going in the direction of BM at the same time as the bin lorry was going in the opposite direction to get to HS area.)

Bin lorry collecting (general waste) arrived on the Monday

So I pondered on this and wondered if the bin lorry emptied the wrong bin and instead of taking recycling, he took general waste. So then I wanted to know what a typical average weight might be for general waste in a 1100 litre bin. Couldn't find such info on the B website, but found it on another: "Our largest 4 wheeled heavy duty bin, measuring H1500 x W1000 x L1300mm, has 4 rubber tyre swivel castors with wheel locks preventing unwanted movement. It is designed for general waste or mixed recycling material and holds between 20 to 25 standard bin bags totalling an average weight of 80KG 12-15 black bags."
Link: http://www.obrienwaste.co.uk/services/bin-front-end-loader-fel-collection/bin-fel-specifications/

So, could the driver have taken a rubbish bin which may have been full and a little more weighty instead of taking recycling? Then when he collected the recycling from Mildenhall, the load was mixed and therefore any recycling was contaminated and therefore had to go to landfill as it couldn't be processed in the usual way.

 

[Deleted member 178385]

Apologies, but I am going to throw a spanner in the works. Having read the latest news and posts here and thinking about the things LE have said, there seems to be a lot of anomalies which has created confusion. I was going to mention each thing and put in a link to the relevant site, but it appears that a lot more has now been deleted, including SP's updates before November 2016. I had gone through the previous updates last week making notes, but these updates are no longer there.

RSBM BBM.

The earlier Suffolk Police updates are on an archive page - it's linked on the right hand side of the main SP CM page, but this is a direct link.

ETA: Also, I think all of the original SP updates were copied and pasted onto the family site here, here and here.

 

[YachtClassic007]

ABSOLUTELY SPOT ON !!! This was never a case of anyone deliberately recording the data incorrectly. It was a case of the interpretation of the data being wrong. My only surprise would be that a figure of 110kg would stand out in a column (going back over 6 months) of 10-15kgs ... but again, as this info was not required for costing, it's format/position may have been considered unimportant and therefore 'lost in the noise' of all the other data.. sadly

The thing is, we don't know how the weight information is captured, the implication from family statements from posters who have some knowledge of the industry and the way I have undertsood them is that the weight recording isn't a manual process, no one writes it down, it is an electronic process and if we are to believe UT the recording equipment was found to be working properly.



What now seems to be tha case is that as the weight wasn't needed for this round (pick up charged by occurance not be weight) it wasn't produced in any kind of easily understandable form and when the police asked Biffa what the weight was an employee (HS?) looked it up but because it's hard to understand the printouts or computer info (I don't think we know what form the output takes) he read it wrongly.

I don't think anyone deliberately gave the wrong weightor misrecorded it, it's one of the many complexities of this case that has led to poor C not yet being found

JMO

 

[Shiressleuth]

I can edit MidsummersDay's post.

TW said the following in his 5th January update, which would be approx 4:05. Maybe this is where MidsummersDay got 4:00 from?
http://www.findcorrie.co.uk/the-bin-lorrys-refuse-sites-update-5th-january-2017/

I will change it to the 4:20 time NU stated in the article you linked, though. That seems more accurate as that is also the time the driver saw the three teens in the horseshoe.

Thanks GT.

 

[Miss_French]

I have to disagree with some of the points here. I'm absolutely not being picky or pedantic. Possibly my experience is more recent?

Medics within the RAF regiment don't do that role as an extra little job at all. They are highly trained in combat medicine and are the first line guys in combat situations and more crucially in recent years, in patrolling injuries. These guys will be on their medic role first and foremost when in theatre. It's also a choice to take this role on and isn't given to anyone.

In previous years it is true that all of the services would wade In and get involved in driving offence cases and cite the need to drive for the forces as a way to avoiding driving bans etc. This is absolutely not the case anymore and hasn't been for some time. It will still be used as a defence but it receives absolutely no backing from the MOD anymore. Saying the RAF is supportive of airmen in court for driving offences is just not true.

As I said I'm not being critical or anything else, just factual to the best of my knowledge. We are all trying to make our minds up based on what may or may not be factual. I base my facts on being an MOD employee and they are correct to the best of my knowledge.

JMO


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

That's fine. Yes, I know what the role of a medic is for the RAF Regt, I've posted on here before in more detail. I just put the basics for someone who appeared new to it. Still comes back to the point that C may have been given the role rather than volunteered. N has said on tv that she knows nothing about C's job, but apparently knows the medic part, and doesn't say anything about secondary duties; maybe that's part if the reason why he got the medic duty?

The driving offence is based on my experience with the MOD.

 

[Miss_French]

There are two ways to get to the HS in a vehicle in a lorry, by Short Brackland or by Brentgovel Street (pedestrians but lorries can access for loading/unloading). Looking at the street view on google maps, if the lorry came down Short Brackland he would have had to turn left head first into Brentgovel and reverse back to the bins. If he drove up Brentgovel he would have turned right into Short Brackland head first and reversed back to the bins from there. Brentgovel is narrower than Short Brackland. Were there any cars parked in the HS when the lorry got there? On Google maps there are four cars, if there had been cars there that morning the lorry driver would have had to negotiate a very cautious reverse manoeuvre and it would still have been quite dark at that time as well.

There's too much street furniture to get along Brentgovel St to the HS with a lorry. There's a metal junction box cabinet widthways between Greenwood's and Greggs, plus trees/light at the other end.

 

[guruagain]

There's too much street furniture to get along Brentgovel St to the HS with a lorry. There's a metal junction box cabinet widthways between Greenwood's and Greggs, plus trees/light at the other end.

Coach might mean the bit of Brentgovel that runs in front of the Cornhill Shopping Centre.

 

[DaveShu]

<modsnip>

Anyway, I have an interesting new thought that you might be interested in - I have shared this with someone else so don't know if he posted it already, but here goes:

What has been rattling around in my brain is that the Police have taken the 11Kg number as fact and not investigated it further until far too late - if they actually did investigate it further at all.

Det Supt Katie Elliott was bigging up her team for "their persistence" in bringing the new weight to light - well 5 or 6 months is a long time to confirm or deny a number, and the insinutation I've seen from a news source is that it was the bin company who contacted the Police with the new numbers, not the Police diligently investigating and "discovering" an error as they are trying to portray.

When the Police were adamant that the 11Kg was correct my immediate thought was that CM was in the cab of the truck - he had to be, however the "new correct weight" "shows" that he was in the bin all along.

So my devious mind has considered the following:

Imagine you killed CM and dumped him at the landfill. While the Police are "certain" that he wasn't in the bin truck, and therefore aren't going to search the landfill, you are in the clear.

When they decide they ARE going to search the landfill then you're up the creek without a paddle - when they find his body there, but he couldn't have been in the bin, then there is only 1 other possible solution.

So, isn't it strange that it was only AFTER the Police annouced the landfill search would go ahead that the new numbers came to light?

In other words - what if the 11Kg WAS correct, and rather than the Police being given the wrong number at the beginning - the false number is the one they are working with now.

That is to say, the bin DID weigh 11Kg, and the "raw data" has been subsequently altered to show a much heavier weight.

If Biffa have an audit trail built into their software then the Police will be able to see when that raw data was altered, and by who, but if they don't then the BIG mistake the Police made was not obtaining copies of it right at the beginning.

If they had original copies they would be able to see if and when the data was altered.

On top of that - imagine if CMs body is found at the landfill (which it will be) - no one can be 100% sure of the level of decomposition, but even in the worst case scenario - say he had been stabbed and there is bone damage from a blade - isn't it convenient that a knife was found in the horseshoe AFTER it had been cleared by the Police during an extensive search?

If someone had, hypothetically speaking, stabbed CM, taken his body to the landfill, and wanted to cover their tracks later - changing the recorded bin weight AND leaving a knife at the last known location for CM would lead the Police to deduce (incorrectly) that he was stabbed at the scene, and dumped in a bin.

Rather than what actually happened.

This is why I LOVE forensics, and especially DNA evidence - when they found no trace of him in the cab or the waste area of the truck = he can't have been there.

When they find his body with stab wounds and they have a knife with no DNA, and no DNA from the bin, etc - they'll conclude he was stabbed there and put in the bin - the lack of DNA or blood etc will be IGNORED>

I really do think this is a viable solution that explains EVERYTHING and solves the entire "mystery" - doubtful though that they will consider or investigate it.

One former detective has been giving his verdict in the Sun newspaper, but it's so full of holes it's laughable - one thing to consider if nothing else is how do you as an individual lift a dead weight high enough to put them in a bin, and that's after you've sneaked into and out of the horseshoe without being seen on the CCTV there or in the surrounding roads, etc.

Anyway, think that over and my "psychic prediction" is CM's body will show knife wounds.