UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #21

[wellawoo]

Something I've been trying to discover are the potential sightings early on. I wasn't around at the beginning and it's hard to find anything concrete on this. I've heard of sightings by the dentist that caught fire and on the road by the sugar factory. Where these looked into or dismissed off hand? Were there other sightings? Where sightings reorder to the police or family do we know?
Sorry for the questions if it's all been covered before as I can't find anything tangible. Now I've decided to move from lurker to posting it's like I can't shut up 😂

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[Deleted member 189081]

They won't search the whole landfill. It is neither practical nor justifiable.

<modsnip>

Do you know what I find strange? The landfill reportedly was ruled out by the police however the landfill people didn't add anymore rubbish to it after it was ruled out at the beginning.

Was that because it was almost full and they started a new Cell? and God forbid the lad is actually at the bottom of the new Cell.I do hope not

 

[Shiressleuth]

The police announced the landfill search before they announced the bin weight change, but why does that mean it happened that way around? My assumption all along has been that logic pointed to the LF, but the weight put an end to that theory. When they found that the weight tied in, hey presto.

Also, thinking logically, if his phone went there and he is assumed to have ended up there, surely logic tells us that they went there at the same time. The more complex a theory we dream up, the less likely it is to be the case.

Because it did happen that way round. LF search was announced with many weeks prep needed. Then the arrest for PTCOJ (Biffa dispatcher) plus interview under caution for one other person (prob bin lorry driver). Following that was the bailing of the dispatcher till beginning of April. Shortly after that the "error" was announced and deemed human error by Biffa and no furthet action on the bailed dispatcher was pursued. Whether LE had a hunch there was an error and so they made that arrest to get the confirmation is a possibility.
Only problem now is neithet C nor his phone has yet been discovered. Whether LE take anothet look at those bin weights again could be an option. Something doesn't ring true for me.

 

[wellawoo]

The police announced the landfill search before they announced the bin weight change, but why does that mean it happened that way around? My assumption all along has been that logic pointed to the LF, but the weight put an end to that theory. When they found that the weight tied in, hey presto.

Also, thinking logically, if his phone went there and he is assumed to have ended up there, surely logic tells us that they went there at the same time. The more complex a theory we dream up, the less likely it is to be the case.

I agree we don't know it didn't happen the other way around and I agree the LF was ruled out initially due to the weight..... but.. The phone pings don't mean the phone was in the BL, they have a radius of around 4 miles and even further should other masts reach capacity and divert to the next one. The pings show the phone was in a vehicle and the rough direction it travelled but it doesn't point directly to BL or LF. That is an assumption, although not an unreasonable one.
I've read people saying that 11kg was a fairly normal weigh for that bin but I just can't comprehend a business paying anyone to empty a bin that isn't regularly full on collection day. I think the adjusted weight is correct and that it was probably no different than other weeks because I can't find anything reliable stating the normal average weight of the bin.
Early on someone working in waste said on the FC page that the equipment resets at 100 and that the bin likely weighed 111kgs rather than 11. It made sense and then that appears to be what happened.
I think the weights and the LF etc are all red herrings UNLESS police have info we don't know. They have to, surely. With no further evidence I'd be shocked they got the search signed off by those in charge of the purse strings.

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[Shiressleuth]

Do you know what I find strange? The landfill reportedly was ruled out by the police however the landfill people didn't add anymore rubbish to it after it was ruled out at the beginning.

Was that because it was almost full and they started a new Cell? and God forbid the lad is actually at the bottom of the new Cell.I do hope not

They periodically move to another cell. When LE alerted landfill site to put that cell on hold it was already some weeks into the investigation after all the initial roadside searches had been done. The FCC would have probably been about to start another cell so just did that once LE had asked them to. They keep records to ensure when cells were used as part of the decomposition process. MOO.

Eta. Of course we have recently found out that C did know he was going to be a father (the family knew this but the public didn't) and that of itself may have determined his actions to some degree that night. It is not clear to me if LE knew those circumstances but they knew about his last ever text message so they must have known some of the circumstances IMO.

 

[Cherwell]

I've read people saying that 11kg was a fairly normal weigh for that bin but I just can't comprehend a business paying anyone to empty a bin that isn't regularly full on collection day.

Full doesn't always mean heavy. Cardboard packaging can be quite bulky and take up a lot of room, but is light in weight.
As far as I know, the police have never confirmed that it was a paper/card recycling bin though. Did the driver pick up the wrong bin? We don't know.

I do think that if the bin weight and the phone pings is really all the evidence they have, it's pretty flimsy.

 

[wellawoo]

Full doesn't always mean heavy. Cardboard packaging can be quite bulky and take up a lot of room, but is light in weight.
As far as I know, the police have never confirmed that it was a paper/card recycling bin though. Did the driver pick up the wrong bin? We don't know.

I do think that if the bin weight and the phone pings is really all the evidence they have, it's pretty flimsy.

As far as I'm aware it was emptied every two weeks. If recycling then the boxes etc would be flat packed or broken down else they wouldn't be able to fit two weeks worth in. Cardboard, when there is enough of it can be heavy. Two weeks worth of just cardboard from Greggs would be heavy imo
Anyway the weight went up by 100kgs and C apparently weighed around 85 kgs. I know he had an old phone on him but it wasn't a phone from the 80s &#128514;
I think the police described it as "general waste" and N referred to it as "household waste". I really don't think it was recycling x

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[Deleted member 189081]

Well I am back to the beginning with two thoughts

AWOL for what ever personal reason or
Murdered and disposed of for whatever reason and somewhere other than the landfill

I really think in the case of an accident, Corrie would have been found by a member of the public, land owner or one of the many searches.


mho
R

 

[Blamhappy]

I agree we don't know it didn't happen the other way around and I agree the LF was ruled out initially due to the weight..... but.. The phone pings don't mean the phone was in the BL, they have a radius of around 4 miles and even further should other masts reach capacity and divert to the next one. The pings show the phone was in a vehicle and the rough direction it travelled but it doesn't point directly to BL or LF. That is an assumption, although not an unreasonable one.
I've read people saying that 11kg was a fairly normal weigh for that bin but I just can't comprehend a business paying anyone to empty a bin that isn't regularly full on collection day. I think the adjusted weight is correct and that it was probably no different than other weeks because I can't find anything reliable stating the normal average weight of the bin.
Early on someone working in waste said on the FC page that the equipment resets at 100 and that the bin likely weighed 111kgs rather than 11. It made sense and then that appears to be what happened.
I think the weights and the LF etc are all red herrings UNLESS police have info we don't know. They have to, surely. With no further evidence I'd be shocked they got the search signed off by those in charge of the purse strings.

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Yes, I was responding to someone who said maybe the phone is in the landfill and Corrie is in a different part because he was put there another time. To me, that's just over complicating it.

Now that I've been corrected that the weight discrepancy must have come up later than the decision to search (I must have misremembered this!), I think there must be other clues. I can't see them searching unless they're sure.

 

[wellawoo]

Yes, I was responding to someone who said maybe the phone is in the landfill and Corrie is in a different part because he was put there another time. To me, that's just over complicating it.

Now that I've been corrected that the weight discrepancy must have come up later than the decision to search (I must have misremembered this!), I think there must be other clues. I can't see them searching unless they're sure.

Oh sorry! New here &#128584;&#128584; yes logic dictate C is with the phone x
I don't discount the theory the police knew the weight mistake before they had signed off on the LF search. The mistake could have been found and then they would have had to investigate who had reported the wrong figure. They may have put off arrest on purpose, maybe news they would search the LF would bring people forward, pretty sure there was a bit of a push on the reward just before the search started. A time limit was placed on it. Suggesting a push before the search. Maybe they think he is there due to foul play ?

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[Cherwell]

I think the police described it as "general waste" and N referred to it as "household waste". I really don't think it was recycling

Do you have a direct quote from the police on what kind of waste the bin contained, and/or what kind of waste the bin lorry was collecting?

I don't accept N as a reliable source as it wasn't clear which she was referring to. Either way, it wouldn't have been "household waste" as there were only commercial bins there. That may be splitting hairs, but it shows that she doesn't get details right.

 

[Pooks101]

Hi. I have one, but as with most there are glaring holes in it lol I think he was suffering from depression to some degree, was possibly confused about his sexuality, possibly a very lonely person surrounded by friends but none that were close to him. I think he was a bit lost the night he went missing, ringing his brother 4 times that day, accidentally being left behind, possibly drunk drove to BSE followed by more drinking alone before venturing to the pubs. It would seem he was on his own for much of the night trying to tag onto other groups and found himself alone in the doorway. I think he used his phone in the doorway because on Sky news D stated he was seen on camera using his phone (since then it's always been maintained he hadn't been seen using or with his phone). I think he went into the HS and through to short brackland when the camera rotated (by luck not design). I think he got into a car there that he either arranged whilst in the doorway or it was a chance encounter with someone he was familiar with. No idea where he went or why but obviously he has travelled in a similar direction as the BL but not necessarily the same roads etc. My thought is that he could have had a great time with whomever he left with, was down about life in general and kind of though 'bugger it' I'm just going to go off and start again, start new. If you Google there are many AWOL servicemen that work using their own NI number etc, when people go AWOL it's not like the forces start a massive manhunt. He could well have gone to Amsterdam as people are sometimes suggesting but I think he is most likely in the UK. I can't decide if I think he has rang a brother or not. I'm wavering a bit now though....

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This has pretty much been my theory since day one! I don't believe he'll be found in LF, I don't understand how he could be 30 miles away in a different direction to the last phone ping? I think he met someone in the HS after they'd finished work and went off for a bit of fun (gf away in America, mates not expecting him back in camp all weekend) and he's done a spur of the minute AWOL or has come to some harm somewhere... the chances of that after the seemingly rubbish night he'd had though? Got to be pretty unlucky imo. The 4 calls to D that day still makes me wonder...


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[Blamhappy]

Oh sorry! New here &#128584;&#128584; yes logic dictate C is with the phone x
I don't discount the theory the police knew the weight mistake before they had signed off on the LF search. The mistake could have been found and then they would have had to investigate who had reported the wrong figure. They may have put off arrest on purpose, maybe news they would search the LF would bring people forward, pretty sure there was a bit of a push on the reward just before the search started. A time limit was placed on it. Suggesting a push before the search. Maybe they think he is there due to foul play ?

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No need to apologise. I didn't quote the post, so it was unclear.

Shire gave reason for why it was that way around, although I'm still dubious. I dunno. I get confused easily!

 

[sandamanda]

LATEST ~ 'Police may have been given wrong information about bin lorry rubbish location' says mum


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/corrie-mckeague-search-police-been-13015960

 

[Shiressleuth]

LATEST ~ 'Police may have been given wrong information about bin lorry rubbish location' says mum


http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/corrie-mckeague-search-police-been-13015960

So N has doubts about the weight and where the lorry went? So does she believe Biffa are PTCOJ? LE have already been thru this and this is why they have spent 10 weeks searching thru stinking landfill as Ironside has said. If he's not there, what should LE do?

 

[Mindie304]

http://www.edp24.co.uk/news/bin-lorry-bursts-into-flames-on-the-a47-1-5012716

Nothing to do with C i know but interesting all the same

 

[jessie]

So N has doubts about the weight and where the lorry went? So does she believe Biffa are PTCOJ? LE have already been thru this and this is why they have spent 10 weeks searching thru stinking landfill as Ironside has said. If he's not there, what should LE do?

Sorry Shiresleuth I know you've used it before, but what does this mean?

 

[guruagain]

Jessie - Perverting The Course Of Justice.

 

[Amonet]

I don't think the police were given information that Corrie might be in the landfill (therefore he could have got there some other way), I think it's about following a logic trail.

Corrie went into the horseshoe, wasn't seen coming out, never seen again. No one walking past saw him in there, and when the Look East reporter did his segment in the horseshoe it looked fairly well lit, so why didn't anyone see Corrie in there?

A) he went into a building -- no trace

B) he was hidden out of sight in a bin

We were told there was no forensic trace of Corrie in the bin, but we weren't told what kind of forensics were done on it. We were told the bin was too light to have contained Corrie when it was lifted.

But if you rule everything out and you're left with nothing, you've got to go back and start assuming at least one 'fact' is not a fact after all.

So I think that's what they did. Combine the fact that Corrie wasn't seen with the fact that the bin lorry was the first vehicle into (and out of) the horseshoe after Corrie was seen on camera, and assume the bin weight was wrong and that there's a logical reason that the forensics missed him being in the bin.

Then Corrie can be in the horseshoe for an hour and get out unseen.

Which, we are told, leads to the landfill.

Then they had the confirmation that the bin weight was wrong, supporting the decision to do the landfill search.

When you've got all those people walking past, the cameras, the details of the vehicles in that time frame.... I think you need to do the same again *if* Corrie is not found in the landfill. Limit yourself to just one or two tiny 'facts' being incorrect, not attempt to rewrite every fact, which goes back to the Occam's razor principle (the simplest explanation with the fewest assumptions is most likely correct) and Wella's comments about not making too many assumptions or excursions from the known 'facts'. The way I see it is like making paths through a flowchart, and we need to make as few changes to the 'facts' and as few assumptions as possible, and take into account that Corrie wasn't seen by a person or a camera after entering the horseshoe...Corrie hasn't used his phone, his bank account, presumably his NI number since that night. The police searches didn't find a body, the Sulsar searches didn't find a body. If Corrie lost his phone and it went alone to the landfill (to account for the pings) then why haven't the searchers found the phone in the landfill?

I think that's the kind of thinking process we need to be considering.

 

[Cherwell]

LATEST ~ 'Police may have been given wrong information about bin lorry rubbish location' says mum
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/local-news/corrie-mckeague-search-police-been-13015960

So N has doubts about the weight and where the lorry went? So does she believe Biffa are PTCOJ? LE have already been thru this and this is why they have spent 10 weeks searching thru stinking landfill as Ironside has said. If he's not there, what should LE do?

Exactly, and the police have already made it clear that they have been searching in the right place. I don't understand why she is still querying it.

Throughout the search officers have found material that have indicated they are in the right area – finding waste that was clearly identifiable as being from Bury St Edmunds, and within the right time frame.

If he's not there, there must be another explanation.