UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #22

[JustJo]

I still am skeptical that absolutely no trace at all has been found in HS, bin, lorry, transfer station, transfer lorry, incinerator or landfill and that not even the rubbish from that day has turned up seemingly. Odd, just like the circumstances of the case.

The chances of finding not one thing in any of those places does seem remote. Not once single trace. After all this time I still don't know if I believe the landfill theory or not!


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[Taskforce88]

This is the first time I have heard MM criticize the police. He has always been supportive. I cannot see what more can be done, especially if SP are adamant CM went in the bin and has been crushed. Very sad they could find no evidence of phone, clothes, shoes, wallet or Corrie himself to confirm he went in that bin. Have they found the actual rubbish from that day at all? I still am skeptical that absolutely no trace at all has been found in HS, bin, lorry, transfer station, transfer lorry, incinerator or landfill and that not even the rubbish from that day has turned up seemingly. Odd, just like the circumstances of the case.

I believe he fully expected the Police to find his son there, and hes understandably annoyed that hasn't happened.

They could search through the whole landfill and still not find anything.

 

[Taskforce88]

The chances of finding not one thing in any of those places does seem remote. Not once single trace. After all this time I still don't know if I believe the landfill theory or not!


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I'm not sure anymore either, but the police believe he is there so...

 

[Shiressleuth]

I believe he fully expected the Police to find his son there, and hes understandably annoyed that hasn't happened.

They could search through the whole landfill and still not find anything.

I think it is likely he will not be found in cell 22. However, if they think he was crushed in the lorry, yet they found no forensic trace in the bin lorry early on when they tested it, why do they think he is there at all? I just don't get it.

 

[Reallyodd]

I think it is likely he will not be found in cell 22. However, if they think he was crushed in the lorry, yet they found no forensic trace in the bin lorry early on when they tested it, why do they think he is there at all? I just don't get it.

It seems to me that they have relied solely on the phone being with him and in the lorry. It could be that the phone was, but not him, or it could be that he was in a vehicle behind the bin lorry or perhaps he'd been given a lift and left his phone behind.

 

[Shiressleuth]

It seems to me that they have relied solely on the phone being with him and in the lorry. It could be that the phone was, but not him, or it could be that he was in a vehicle behind the bin lorry or perhaps he'd been given a lift and left his phone behind.

Apart from phone pings and bin weight, what is the evidence he travelled and got crushed in the bin lorry that made them think it? I have read that you can put your phone in a crisp bag and the pings would not be traced, so in a load of crushed rubbish inside a bin lorry? That test they did was inconclusive - a bit like the investigation.

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.cetusnews.com/news/Emplo...e-his-whereabouts-during-work.HymuS0nFeM.html

Just posting the link about the crisp packet Faraday cage. I wish we had known this a year ago.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

http://www.cetusnews.com/news/Emplo...e-his-whereabouts-during-work.HymuS0nFeM.html

Just posting the link about the crisp packet Faraday cage. I wish we had known this a year ago.

But we have known about the possibility of the hopper of the bin lorry, rather than a crisp packet, acting as a Faraday cage from fairly early on. This is from the transcript of Nicola's Q&A dated 28/12/2016:

Yes, it would be possible but CCTV sees the vehicle leave and has smooth sides so he couldn't hold on to it and he cant be seen on or under it as it leaves the horseshoe - given all of that though his phone left barton mills at 4.25am in the same direction as the bin lorry and has last been triangulated at the micro mass at Barton Mills. This doesn’t mean it was at Barton Mills, it means it was between 3-5km near the mass and there are other roads that you could be on and phone would still triangulate at that Barton Mills mass although common sense says that if he's been in that area and the bin lorry has too, and both left and triangulated within 1 min an half of the bin lorry being there its most likely that the phone has been in the bin lorry. We asked police to make enquires as to if the phone would work in the back of bin lorry as it may act as a faraday cage and we’re waiting for results. The results won’t be scientific but will give us reassurance that he hasn't been in the lorry with his phone.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/entry.php?1767-Corrie-Mckeague-Nicola-s-live-Q-amp-A-Part-One-Transcript

 

[Shiressleuth]

But we have known about the possibility of the hopper of the bin lorry, rather than a crisp packet, acting as a Faraday cage from fairly early on. This is from the transcript of Nicola's Q&A dated 28/12/2016:



[/FONT]http://www.websleuths.com/forums/entry.php?1767-Corrie-Mckeague-Nicola-s-live-Q-amp-A-Part-One-Transcript

I meant I wish we knew a crisp packet could act as a Faraday cage. More weight may have been given to the theory. The tests weren't carried out for some time and were "inconclusive" - what did that mean? Is a mobile phone trackable inside several tons of rubbish inside a metal bin when just a crisp packet renders it ineffective? We still don't know a year on.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I meant I wish we knew a crisp packet could act as a Faraday cage. More weight may have been given to the theory. The tests weren't carried out for some time and were "inconclusive" - what did that mean? Is a mobile phone trackable inside several tons of rubbish inside a metal bin when just a crisp packet renders it ineffective? We still don't know a year on.

But it's any metal or metallised container that acts as a Faraday cage. That's why some techies say you should carry your passport and credit/debit cards in a metal- or foil-lined pouch or sleeve to prevent people with skimmers skimming off the data in the chip. It's why in the past week we've seen advice to keep car keys in a metal tin or similar because car thieves are now using electronic devices from outside a property to use the electronic keys inside the property to unlock vehicles outside. Keeping your car keys in a tin blocks the signal.

So I have just carried out an experiment involving (a) my mobile phone, (b) a large empty (the sacrifices I make in the cause of investigation) Doritos packet and (c) the household landline phone.

I can confirm that my phone went straight to voicemail even though the two phones were only 2 feet apart.

The fact that his phone's pings were tracked until 8.30am in the Barton Mills area means that the phone was communicating with the local masts (which we in fact know to be the case) and therefore strongly suggests to me that it could not have been in the back of the lorry. If a crisp packet acts as a Faraday cage I can't imagine that a thick steel box would not.

 

[Shiressleuth]

But it's any metal or metallised container that acts as a Faraday cage. That's why some techies say you should carry your passport and credit/debit cards in a metal- or foil-lined pouch or sleeve to prevent people with skimmers skimming off the data in the chip. It's why in the past week we've seen advice to keep car keys in a metal tin or similar because car thieves are now using electronic devices from outside a property to use the electronic keys inside the property to unlock vehicles outside. Keeping your car keys in a tin blocks the signal.

So I have just carried out an experiment involving (a) my mobile phone, (b) a large empty (the sacrifices I make in the cause of investigation) Doritos packet and (c) the household landline phone.

I can confirm that my phone went straight to voicemail even though the two phones were only 2 feet apart.

The fact that his phone's pings were tracked until 8.30am in the Barton Mills area means that the phone was communicating with the local masts (which we in fact know to be the case) and therefore strongly suggests to me that it could not have been in the back of the lorry. If a crisp packet acts as a Faraday cage I can't imagine that a thick steel box would not.

There is loads on the net about this and I was going to do the same experiment as you, till I watched someone do it on you tube, (also I had no crisps. :frown: )
So why have police not properly addressed this right from the beginning? As you say I don't see it is possible at all.

 

[JustJo]

Oh my goodness, can you imagine if it is correct and phone pings can't work from inside the bin lorry..... the whole investigation and landfill being a waste of time!!

Thank you for the experiment Melmoth . I hope you enjoyed conducting it as much as eating the Doritos

I think I am leaning to Corrie leaving the area in a vehicle and then coming to harm at a different location. If the occupants of the vehicle harmed Corrie, it could have happened anywhere and they could have disposed of his body in dozens of unknown locations

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[MelmothTheLost]

There is loads on the net about this and I was going to do the same experiment as you, till I watched someone do it on you tube, (also I had no crisps. :frown: )
So why have police not properly addressed this right from the beginning? As you say I don't see it is possible at all.

The issue for me now is that if the phone could not have been in the back of the bin lorry then it seems highly unlikely that Corrie was. I just don't see a situation where Corrie was in the back of the bin lorry but his phone was in the cab (ie not inside the Faraday cage at the back).

The only way he could be in the landfill site is if he had been in the bin in the horseshoe, been tipped into the lorry and somehow missed during unloading and reloading of the rubbish at the Red Lodge transit centre before finally being dumped at the landfill site.

So why are SP spending so much time and money searching it?

What the hell is going on?

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Oh my goodness, can you imagine if it is correct and phone pings can't work from inside the bin lorry..... the whole investigation and landfill being a waste of time!!

It also raises the question as to why, with all the technical and scientific knowledge available to them, the police did not understand the implications of a Faraday cage very early on in the investigation.

Thank you for the experiment Melmoth . I hope you enjoyed conducting it as much as eating the Doritos

I enjoyed both. Sometimes carrying out these experiments for yourself is the best demonstration of the idea.

I think I am leaning to Corrie leaving the area in a vehicle and then coming to harm at a different location. If the occupants of the vehicle harmed Corrie, it could have happened anywhere and they could have disposed of his body in dozens of unknown locations

It will be interesting to see what SP say when the search is finally ended. Are they going to maintain that he is in there somewhere but effectively not ever recoverable, or are they going to say that they no longer believe he is in the landfill and that they will therefore be looking to pursue other leads if and when they come in?

I tend to agree that he is probably not in the landfill site, which means that he left the horseshoe by some other means than the bin and that he is somewhere else, alive or dead. Much more likely the latter.

 

[Shiressleuth]

It also raises the question as to why, with all the technical and scientific knowledge available to them, the police did not understand the implications of a Faraday cage very early on in the investigation.



I enjoyed both. Sometimes carrying out these experiments for yourself is the best demonstration of the idea.



It will be interesting to see what SP say when the search is finally ended. Are they going to maintain that he is in there somewhere but effectively not ever recoverable, or are they going to say that they no longer believe he is in the landfill and that they will therefore be looking to pursue other leads if and when they come in?

I tend to agree that he is probably not in the landfill site, which means that he left the horseshoe by some other means than the bin and that he is somewhere else, alive or dead. Much more likely the latter.

I would say it depends. Did they actually find any rubbish with the right dates on it? If so then highly unlikely C*is anywhere else in the LF imo. If not, then where is that rubbish - pull the driver and dispatcher in again to find out where that lorry really tipped it's load and go from there.

Also, can you repeat the experiment with your phone in the back of a bin lorry?

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-24-September-2016-13&p=13046651#post13046651

Here's a link to where we were discussing it before - way back in January .

 

[MelmothTheLost]

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-24-September-2016-13&p=13046651#post13046651

Here's a link to where we were discussing it before - way back in January .

Thanks for finding that - I looked for it earlier today but couldn't find it amongst all the other stuff we were discussing at the time.

And I see I was wrong on the phone pings issue. Back then I said that the phone would ping from inside the bin lorry but as we now know that seems to be very unlikely.

It does seem to be a major omission by SP that they did not really bottom out this issue at the time.

 

[Cherwell]

Did they actually find any rubbish with the right dates on it? If so then highly unlikely C*is anywhere else in the LF imo. If not, then where is that rubbish - pull the driver and dispatcher in again to find out where that lorry really tipped it's load and go from there.

I thought they said that they had found rubbish from BSE from the right time period, way back during the first search.
It's not going to be a case of exact dates anyway. Most rubbish will not have dates on, and anything that does might not have been discarded immediately.

 

[cotswoldemmie]

I thought they said that they had found rubbish from BSE from the right time period, way back during the first search.
It's not going to be a case of exact dates anyway. Most rubbish will not have dates on, and anything that does might not have been discarded immediately.

I was under the impression too that they had already found rubbish from around the correct date. I’ll have a look for the link


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[Cherwell]

Yes, I think I can remember N saying that they had found rubbish from the right dates but not from Greggs.
Because I wondered what they expected to find since it's a small branch selling mostly takeaway food - so most wrappers, cups etc would be thrown away elsewhere.
Somebody local confirmed that IIRC, saying that there is another, larger Greggs in BSE with eat-in tables.