I can't find it for the life of me!
UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #3
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Has Tony's comment been removed now, or can someone point me towards it (can't find it)?
Is it confirmed as being 4 minutes after Corrie went into the area?
Is it confirmed as being 4 minutes after Corrie went into the area?
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I can't find his comment (might have been deleted) - can you remember what his exact words were?
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I see that Tony has posted:
"To avoid further confusion as people start checking posts this morning - a number of posts and threads were deleted last night. Don't worry, we are not trying to inhibit discussion!
In almost all cases it was because pieces of information were being erroneously combined and then picked up elsewhere and repeated as fact.
In the Intelligence community it is referred to as 'false collateral' - where an unfounded statement is repeated by a second source; a third person then assumes it is true because they have received the same information from 2 different sources.
Just wanted to ensure speculation starts from as solid a base as possible.
Please also have a read of the update if you haven't already. Please do keep discussing and commenting and don't take it personally if a post or two disappears!"
"To avoid further confusion as people start checking posts this morning - a number of posts and threads were deleted last night. Don't worry, we are not trying to inhibit discussion!
In almost all cases it was because pieces of information were being erroneously combined and then picked up elsewhere and repeated as fact.
In the Intelligence community it is referred to as 'false collateral' - where an unfounded statement is repeated by a second source; a third person then assumes it is true because they have received the same information from 2 different sources.
Just wanted to ensure speculation starts from as solid a base as possible.
Please also have a read of the update if you haven't already. Please do keep discussing and commenting and don't take it personally if a post or two disappears!"
Its been taken down. Which now opens up a new can of worms.
I am now starting to think this publicity thing with FB etc is being orchestrated so they can catch the perpetrator/s.
As apparently that camera doesnt rotate out of view of the area at all.
The lady said she only sees a man leaving that area a few minutes after Corrie went in.
I mean unless they have eliminated this person already and don't think its worth saying about or showing to the public.
But I agree he is definitely Bi Sexual. No man does all that sort of stuff on social media if he is completely straight. Or maybe he is just Bi Curious they call it.
I think he was meeting someone there. Man or Women. Arranged via a phone app, which cant be traced unless you have the phone I guess. Ran down to that area where they arranged to meet up, was looking for the car and they either beeped or shouted him and he gingerly walked over in that direction. Making sure he wasnt being followed or watched, because he was about to meet a complete stranger for sexual encounter.
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So basically this women was lying. Is that was his saying?
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JerricaBenton
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Well, that's a HUGE game changer!
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Asking the obvious question here: are we 100% sure the person wearing dark clothing walking out of the bin area wasn't Corrie after a change of clothes?
JerricaBenton
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That was my first thought. His actions that night have made me suspect that all was not well.
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Have just seen a comment where Tony is asked if the person seen leaving the bin area has been categorically confirmed as NOT Corrie, to which Tony replies 'Yes.'
Could the CCTV footage have been 'cut' into pieces so that something someone viewed 4 minutes later didn't actually take place 4 minutes later, but could have actually been an hour or two later in real time? That might be considered "pieces of information were being erroneously combined and then picked up elsewhere and repeated as fact."
I could still see Nicola's post saying that she'd chase it up with the police and come back with a response, so it wasn't all deleted. So hopefully there will be an explanation forthcoming to explain it.
I could still see Nicola's post saying that she'd chase it up with the police and come back with a response, so it wasn't all deleted. So hopefully there will be an explanation forthcoming to explain it.
So someone did come out of that area? God this is confusing!
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MidsummersDay
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Reposted...
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whatever the reasons for the family to withhold such critical information, it doesn't help their cause on Facebook as so many people have wracked their brains for possible scenarios whilst not being told the full facts.
Its been establised by Tony that the man wasn't Corrie, and it COULD be someone leaving one of the flats who just happened to leave at the same time Corrie entered.
Whatever, Corrie was only inside that area for 4 minutes before the man left, so it's unlikely it was a sexual encounter. And a fight can be ruled out too, as the man left alone and Corrie was nowhere to be seen. It's possible they exchanged information or items, although there's never been any suggestion that Corrie used drugs, so that's unlikely too.
is it possible that Corrie had another phone with a different number, which he used solely for apps such as Grindr (if indeed he was gay or bi?) Lots of people buy cheap pay-as-you-go phones from Tesco etc simply for the purpose of conducting illicit affairs, so that they can't be caught or traced by their known mobile number.
And Corrie would have had to be careful conducting any such affairs (if he was gay), because he'd be aware that he would be watched by the authorities, and as he hadn't come out - again, presuming he was gay - it would have caused not just embarrassment for him, but he'd have been open to blackmail.
Its been establised by Tony that the man wasn't Corrie, and it COULD be someone leaving one of the flats who just happened to leave at the same time Corrie entered.
Whatever, Corrie was only inside that area for 4 minutes before the man left, so it's unlikely it was a sexual encounter. And a fight can be ruled out too, as the man left alone and Corrie was nowhere to be seen. It's possible they exchanged information or items, although there's never been any suggestion that Corrie used drugs, so that's unlikely too.
is it possible that Corrie had another phone with a different number, which he used solely for apps such as Grindr (if indeed he was gay or bi?) Lots of people buy cheap pay-as-you-go phones from Tesco etc simply for the purpose of conducting illicit affairs, so that they can't be caught or traced by their known mobile number.
And Corrie would have had to be careful conducting any such affairs (if he was gay), because he'd be aware that he would be watched by the authorities, and as he hadn't come out - again, presuming he was gay - it would have caused not just embarrassment for him, but he'd have been open to blackmail.
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Another comment from Tony:
"Appears I need to be less subtle.
It has been established that a person could not leave the 'Horseshoe' area on foot without being caught on camera.
Corrie is not seen leaving the 'Horseshoe' area on foot on any of the cameras in the time window being considered.
There are people and vehicles in the area - some are of interest to the investigation, some are not.
Lines of inquiry continue - some of which may be visible in BSE in the next 24/48 hours."
"Appears I need to be less subtle.
It has been established that a person could not leave the 'Horseshoe' area on foot without being caught on camera.
Corrie is not seen leaving the 'Horseshoe' area on foot on any of the cameras in the time window being considered.
There are people and vehicles in the area - some are of interest to the investigation, some are not.
Lines of inquiry continue - some of which may be visible in BSE in the next 24/48 hours."
Another response from Tony just now:
Appears I need to be less subtle.
It has been established that a person could not leave the 'Horseshoe' area on foot without being caught on camera.
Corrie is not seen leaving the 'Horseshoe' area on foot on any of the cameras in the time window being considered.
There are people and vehicles in the area - some are of interest to the investigation, some are not.
Lines of inquiry continue - some of which may be visible in BSE in the next 24/48 hours.
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Appears I need to be less subtle.
It has been established that a person could not leave the 'Horseshoe' area on foot without being caught on camera.
Corrie is not seen leaving the 'Horseshoe' area on foot on any of the cameras in the time window being considered.
There are people and vehicles in the area - some are of interest to the investigation, some are not.
Lines of inquiry continue - some of which may be visible in BSE in the next 24/48 hours.
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MidsummersDay
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...note the time window considered comment.
MidsummersDay
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Originally Posted by hermes&&
So there were two sober drivers and space in both cars for corrie if he needed to get back with them.
MidsummersDay
Corrie's work colleagues take two cars into BSE.
"Corrie drove in to bury on his own as he was sorting out his little puppy louell. The lads thought he was in the other car to him. Once they got to bury they realised this and so corrie had to drive in on his own. Corrie then stopped his car and spoke to his brother darroch on the phone for nearly an hour and rightly or wrongly he did sit in his car drinking whilst on the phone. Yes I am well aware this is an offence and am very upset it's happened. But to be honest the only thing I care about right now is getting my boy back home x"
With two full cars, the occupants of each automatically think that the other car was taking Corrie. See the confusion? Hence the reason why Corrie took his own car into BSE!
SPECULATIVE EVENTS OF THE NIGHT:
Corrie is running late as he’s trying to sort out his puppy Louell. His work colleagues are unaware of this as each of the two cars think that Corrie is in the other one. The preceding events are hurried and the rushing to get ready results in an inevitable communication breakdown.
Late evening (around 2100)
He's on base waiting for a lift and his mates (inadvertently) have left without him! Reluctantly, he takes his nice shiny BMW Z4 into BSE and parks it as close to the pub and nightclub bar areas as he can along Robert Boby Way where the lads are already well advanced in the drinking games. Corrie parks up and speaks to his brother Darroch whilst he drinks alcohol in his car for an hour. Followed by 3 hours drinking in the pubs. Corrie is now playing catch up as he's quite a few pints behind.
After several rounds, the alcohol is starting to kick in and Corrie is trying to prove himself. The banter is flying about who thought who was taxiing Corrie into town. Corrie is throwing the slagging back at the gang. The air is heated but jovial. Remember he's a 'one man army'. He's boisterous and the gang don't like it. The banter turns to mild aggression. It's noisy and the group are separated inside the loud nightclub. Corrie is asked to leave the club and is EJECTED.
He desperately tries to make contact whilst being asked to leave. He knows that it's either a single and costly taxi home or a desperate attempt to make contact with his mates and secure a joint taxi back. The alternative is to walk the 12 miles home.
0050
Corrie is now frustrated at being ejected from his mates and the nightclub and walks to the Mama Mia kebab shop to cool off. He's annoyed at the nights proceedings. He meets an USAF airman in a BLACK TSHIRT and shares a slice of pizza. He makes mild conversation whilst waiting for his kebab, chips and burger. The collection time for food is around 20 minutes.
0100
He bids the proprietor goodnight and leaves the kebab shop in the direction of The Grapes pub, bumping into a vagrant along the way. He mentions in a glancing conversation that he's 'walking home'. He's still annoyed.
0115
Corrie is seen to be 'walking with purpose' past The Grapes pub and is caught on CCTV doing so. He's heading towards Hughes shop doorway where he sits in a semi recumbent position and finishes off the remains of his meal. His belly is now full after eating a kebab, two burgers and chips. The cool night air inebriates him further. His annoyance gives way to desperation as he notices the time. It's probably gone 0130 and his text messages and drunken, garbled voice mails have received no response for a lift back to base. He’s edging his bets that at least one of his pals has read and heard his messages in the noisy club. He sets an alarm on his watch/phone for 0250 hoping that he doesn't miss his 0300 lift and dozes for awhile. He's done this before and isn't anything unusual.
0308
There's no sign of his 0300 lift and Corrie wonders if he has the time wrong? Shortly after, Corrie sends a picture text to his brother and staggers towards the bin area as if to be searching for somewhere to relieve himself of the several pints of alcohol. He's now dishevelled, full belly and alone.
0324
Corrie is seen jogging towards the bin area as if hurriedly to meet someone. He appears to be late for an appointment, a meeting, a collection by his friends perhaps? He bumps into an object on the left of shot near the Nailbar and staggers to a leisurely slow walk, then wanders into the middle of the pedestrianised area near to some commercial rubbish bins. He looks cautiously over his shoulder at the Nailbar area. Maybe he begins to realise that he’s missed his last chance for a lift home. His last events are caught on CCTV.
0328
A dark hooded figure is seen leaving the bin area four minutes after the last sighting of Corrie. A number of vehicles are also seen.
PART TWO (to be read in conjunction with Part One).
0328 - 0410
1. Decided to walk home via Shortbrackland?
2. Decided to walk home and thumbed a lift via Shortbrackland?
3. Decided to walk home and was offered a lift?
4. His phone messages were finally read and his work colleagues picked him up and took him towards the BM mast area?
5. Organised abduction?
6. Organised collection by someone he met that evening?
7. Kebab shop USAF Airman collection by vehicle?
8. Tinder/Grinder type app and collection by vehicle?
9. Mugging by car enroute home?
10. RTA enroute home, body in a ditch?
11. RTA enroute home, body removed from scene?
12. Pedestrian accident, body submerged?
13. Pedestrian accident. Succumbed to injuries?
14. Further suggestions…
Additional information
• A dark hooded figure is seen leaving the bin area four minutes after Corrie was last sighted by CCTV. A number of vehicles were also seen.
• A car is seen driving down a one way street the wrong way in BSE.
• Three teenagers are heard arguing by a resident in Shortbrackland.
• Corrie's phone continues to upload app data whilst travelling towards the Barton Mills mast area. A time/speed/distance equation matches the speed of a bin lorry.
• The masts at Barton Mills and Bury St Edmunds (BM & BSE) is a straight line distance of approximately 11 miles. A single mast is located roughly equidistant between the two at 5 miles from BSE and 4 miles from BM. 3G strength coverage is focused mainly nearer the two end masts and is weaker and patcher at the midway point (in some places non existent along the A1101).
0420
A bin lorry driver reports a sighting of three teenagers in Shortbrackland to the rear of Cornwalk Shopping Centre whilst on route to where Corrie was last seen.
Corrie's phone continues to make contact with Barton Mills area mast.
0800 (approx)
Corrie's phone signal stops transmitting in the Barton Mills mast area.
More work is needed on the transmission/receiver information of BM mast to identify possible locations of the phone.
So there were two sober drivers and space in both cars for corrie if he needed to get back with them.
MidsummersDay
Corrie's work colleagues take two cars into BSE.
"Corrie drove in to bury on his own as he was sorting out his little puppy louell. The lads thought he was in the other car to him. Once they got to bury they realised this and so corrie had to drive in on his own. Corrie then stopped his car and spoke to his brother darroch on the phone for nearly an hour and rightly or wrongly he did sit in his car drinking whilst on the phone. Yes I am well aware this is an offence and am very upset it's happened. But to be honest the only thing I care about right now is getting my boy back home x"
With two full cars, the occupants of each automatically think that the other car was taking Corrie. See the confusion? Hence the reason why Corrie took his own car into BSE!
SPECULATIVE EVENTS OF THE NIGHT:
Corrie is running late as he’s trying to sort out his puppy Louell. His work colleagues are unaware of this as each of the two cars think that Corrie is in the other one. The preceding events are hurried and the rushing to get ready results in an inevitable communication breakdown.
Late evening (around 2100)
He's on base waiting for a lift and his mates (inadvertently) have left without him! Reluctantly, he takes his nice shiny BMW Z4 into BSE and parks it as close to the pub and nightclub bar areas as he can along Robert Boby Way where the lads are already well advanced in the drinking games. Corrie parks up and speaks to his brother Darroch whilst he drinks alcohol in his car for an hour. Followed by 3 hours drinking in the pubs. Corrie is now playing catch up as he's quite a few pints behind.
After several rounds, the alcohol is starting to kick in and Corrie is trying to prove himself. The banter is flying about who thought who was taxiing Corrie into town. Corrie is throwing the slagging back at the gang. The air is heated but jovial. Remember he's a 'one man army'. He's boisterous and the gang don't like it. The banter turns to mild aggression. It's noisy and the group are separated inside the loud nightclub. Corrie is asked to leave the club and is EJECTED.
He desperately tries to make contact whilst being asked to leave. He knows that it's either a single and costly taxi home or a desperate attempt to make contact with his mates and secure a joint taxi back. The alternative is to walk the 12 miles home.
0050
Corrie is now frustrated at being ejected from his mates and the nightclub and walks to the Mama Mia kebab shop to cool off. He's annoyed at the nights proceedings. He meets an USAF airman in a BLACK TSHIRT and shares a slice of pizza. He makes mild conversation whilst waiting for his kebab, chips and burger. The collection time for food is around 20 minutes.
0100
He bids the proprietor goodnight and leaves the kebab shop in the direction of The Grapes pub, bumping into a vagrant along the way. He mentions in a glancing conversation that he's 'walking home'. He's still annoyed.
0115
Corrie is seen to be 'walking with purpose' past The Grapes pub and is caught on CCTV doing so. He's heading towards Hughes shop doorway where he sits in a semi recumbent position and finishes off the remains of his meal. His belly is now full after eating a kebab, two burgers and chips. The cool night air inebriates him further. His annoyance gives way to desperation as he notices the time. It's probably gone 0130 and his text messages and drunken, garbled voice mails have received no response for a lift back to base. He’s edging his bets that at least one of his pals has read and heard his messages in the noisy club. He sets an alarm on his watch/phone for 0250 hoping that he doesn't miss his 0300 lift and dozes for awhile. He's done this before and isn't anything unusual.
0308
There's no sign of his 0300 lift and Corrie wonders if he has the time wrong? Shortly after, Corrie sends a picture text to his brother and staggers towards the bin area as if to be searching for somewhere to relieve himself of the several pints of alcohol. He's now dishevelled, full belly and alone.
0324
Corrie is seen jogging towards the bin area as if hurriedly to meet someone. He appears to be late for an appointment, a meeting, a collection by his friends perhaps? He bumps into an object on the left of shot near the Nailbar and staggers to a leisurely slow walk, then wanders into the middle of the pedestrianised area near to some commercial rubbish bins. He looks cautiously over his shoulder at the Nailbar area. Maybe he begins to realise that he’s missed his last chance for a lift home. His last events are caught on CCTV.
0328
A dark hooded figure is seen leaving the bin area four minutes after the last sighting of Corrie. A number of vehicles are also seen.
PART TWO (to be read in conjunction with Part One).
0328 - 0410
1. Decided to walk home via Shortbrackland?
2. Decided to walk home and thumbed a lift via Shortbrackland?
3. Decided to walk home and was offered a lift?
4. His phone messages were finally read and his work colleagues picked him up and took him towards the BM mast area?
5. Organised abduction?
6. Organised collection by someone he met that evening?
7. Kebab shop USAF Airman collection by vehicle?
8. Tinder/Grinder type app and collection by vehicle?
9. Mugging by car enroute home?
10. RTA enroute home, body in a ditch?
11. RTA enroute home, body removed from scene?
12. Pedestrian accident, body submerged?
13. Pedestrian accident. Succumbed to injuries?
14. Further suggestions…
Additional information
• A dark hooded figure is seen leaving the bin area four minutes after Corrie was last sighted by CCTV. A number of vehicles were also seen.
• A car is seen driving down a one way street the wrong way in BSE.
• Three teenagers are heard arguing by a resident in Shortbrackland.
• Corrie's phone continues to upload app data whilst travelling towards the Barton Mills mast area. A time/speed/distance equation matches the speed of a bin lorry.
• The masts at Barton Mills and Bury St Edmunds (BM & BSE) is a straight line distance of approximately 11 miles. A single mast is located roughly equidistant between the two at 5 miles from BSE and 4 miles from BM. 3G strength coverage is focused mainly nearer the two end masts and is weaker and patcher at the midway point (in some places non existent along the A1101).
0420
A bin lorry driver reports a sighting of three teenagers in Shortbrackland to the rear of Cornwalk Shopping Centre whilst on route to where Corrie was last seen.
Corrie's phone continues to make contact with Barton Mills area mast.
0800 (approx)
Corrie's phone signal stops transmitting in the Barton Mills mast area.
More work is needed on the transmission/receiver information of BM mast to identify possible locations of the phone.
MidsummersDay
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