UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #4

[Amonet]

Well I don't want to reply as if I'm giving absolute answers, but my guess would be that what it means is that, say the phone went into the recycling bin and after it got to the recycling centre the phone was crushed, then the phone wouldn't be able to send out an "I'm turning off now" signal so it would still be in a sort of loose connection on the mast as the mast waits to see if it gets pinged again? But it doesn't get pinged again.

I don't know whether the battery going flat would have the same effect. From what's been said on here, our masts should have the same turning on/turning off communications with the mast, but I don't know if they're recorded or notated in the mast data?

Or, as Nicola's said, say the phone turned off in one of the 'blackspots' where the phone can't communicate with the mast, then would have the same effect, but from what Nicola's said there's a delay on the mast picking up a phone, so I am guessing that the phone could send a signal as it reaches the outskirts of the mast area, then enter a blackspot and be turned off/run out of battery, then the delayed signal is noted by the mast, and then the phone appears to stay on the mast for 3 hours but in reality it could move anywhere, and being in an 'off' state, it won't get picked up by any other mast.

I hope that makes sense and that I got it all right.

I can't quote your summary but I can't see how the bit about a phone staying a mast for 3 hours is true unless she means that it will stay there if it doesn't move within 3 hours which I suppose would make sense.

My understanding would then be that the phone pinged the mast at 5am and then nothing was heard for another 3 hours so the possibilities are that it stayed still for 3 hours or stopped transmitting during those 3 hours and now could be anywhere - is that right?

It still doesn't fit with what I've read in other cases where it was possible to identify whether the phone run out of battery or was switched off but as these cases were in Amercia it may be that things work differently there

 

[calo44]

But it's not a dead end for a pedestrian is it? I think this was an early confusion, there are actually lots of ways to walk out

https://www.facebook.com/james.80schild/videos/g.307450186284715/10153789039706652/?type=1

From the video link above, it does look like there are 2 other ways for a pedestrian to walk out of this area. Do any locals know where these two exits lead to?

 

[Ironside]

Thankyou!
Conversations with Biffa yieled the conclusive response that they do not collect Recycling from this area of Bury on a saturday morning.
They do collect from this area on a Saturday morning before 0600hrs however this is only general waste.

This does not tally with said upate regarding the contents or logistics.

Who exactly had these conversations with Biffa?

 

[maya90]

Who exactly had these conversations with Biffa?

There are screenshots of an online transcript from the company - with full details.

 

[Dcflag]

While we were down, I got these quotes about the phone pings from Nicola on the FindCorrie page. I have edited them to remove references to the names of people she was replying to, but I don't think I made any other major edits. I can see that one of them might be slightly awkwardly worded, and that's the last post in the group that I'll post all together, I believe Nicola was saying that IF the phone connection to the mast went down and then the phone went dead but it was in a vehicle that kept on driving, then a vehicle could have driven out of the mast area with a dead phone, it's just a hypothetical that she's presenting, not a fact.

Anyway, here are the posts

I'm glad you posted these, I found the part about believing corries phone to be be with him very interesting

 

[Deleted member 178385]

Who exactly had these conversations with Biffa?

Unless I missed something on here, the only comments I saw were non-family comments on the FB Group - therefore should be dismissed as rumour (particularly as I don't think the family have ever even said it was a Biffa bin lorry?)

As far as I'm concerned, the only important info is this from Tony's update:

"The Bin Lorry. The bin Lorry collected 1 bin. Recycling waste. The lorry had cameras on it, but they are for viewing only, not recording. The bin it collected was weighed when it was lifted into the back, showing only 11kg of material was in it (Corrie is around 85Kg). It then drove to its next pick up in Mildenhall, then on to the recycling centre. It did pass by Fiveways roundabout at Barton Mills, but we know for certain that it did not stop at any point on its journey from BSE to the next pick up or its final destination.- The waste is emptied out of the vehicle and then a supervised sortation process occurs. We are told that it is possible that a phone might pass through this process and be destroyed or disposed of in landfill, but we are told that a body would have been found at this point. "

Therefore, he wasn't in the bin lorry. His phone might have been. We may never know!

 

[Dcflag]

https://www.facebook.com/james.80schild/videos/g.307450186284715/10153789039706652/?type=1

From the video link above, it does look like there are 2 other ways for a pedestrian to walk out of this area. Do any locals know where these two exits lead to?

They are covered by cctv im lead to believe. They're just walkthroughs into the streets surrounding

 

[suzyjackson]

Thankyou!

Conversations with Biffa yieled the conclusive response that they do not collect Recycling from this area of Bury on a saturday morning.
They do collect from this area on a Saturday morning before 0600hrs however this is only general waste.

This does not tally with said upate regarding the contents or logistics.

If this is true then is it actually a lorry from a different bin company? it can't be that the whole thing is fabricated surely or Biffa have made a mistake or misunderstood the question

 

[Tricksy]

https://www.facebook.com/james.80schild/videos/g.307450186284715/10153789039706652/?type=1

From the video link above, it does look like there are 2 other ways for a pedestrian to walk out of this area. Do any locals know where these two exits lead to?

You can exit that area back the way the filmer came, there is the left exit - which mill house fabrics (the empty shop is on) Short Brackland I think? Then you could walk through past the old shopping mall and down by McDonald's. Short Brackland feeds in around St John's St and Northgate St and could be used to get out of town. Walking directly past McDonald's would ultimately lead you to Northgate St, where you could head out of town, or turn left on to the bottom of angel Hill and carry straight out of town via Eastgate st.

 

[Dcflag]

From Tony's most recent update I can only conclude the following:

Corrie is seen leaving on cctv but is one of the unidentified 23. Unidentified maybe because of a clothing change or unclear picture. In this scenario you can assume he binned his own phone, logically to go awol.

Corrie left in one of the four vehicles. I think the bin lorry is pretty safely ruled out (for him not the phone) the update doesn't mention specifically what action is being taken with the cars. So, either the same as situation one, he's binned the phone and used the vehicle to go awol. Or, an altercation happened in the loading bay, his phone was binned and he left in a vehicle. I'm ruling out going willingly purely on the phone evidence, although it's possible the phone did travel with him, in that situation it would suggest getting in a vehicle willingly.

Lastly, he stayed in the loading bay until after 8am and further footage needs to be viewed. Interestingly this one is seemingly ruled out based on Tony's description of the searches in the area. But, who has access to the buildings at 3-4am on a Saturday morning? Who has keys to those properties? Potentially interesting. In this instance I would assume he was forcibly taken purely on the phone evidence of pings.

To rule out the first scenario the 23 have to be identified. A mean feat and one I'm not sure is possible, or they need a reliable witness sighting corroborating him leaving in this manner.

Scenario 2 to be ruled out would be the usual, searching and testing for all the vehicles, alibis for all who have access to the vehicle and a timeline of the person driving that night. As well as catching up with all cctv in outward areas to confirm car movements. From the wording it seems the other vehicles entered the loading bay opposed to being in the vicinity however this is no confirmation on this so you can only assume it was possible he had unseen access to get in one.

Scenario 3 is seemingly ruled out but I guess if there's further testing they can do inside, store cctvs and interviewing all staff who had keys that would help.

It doesn't seem such a mystery any longer, more constrained by budget and resources. Which is frustrating for all involved.

I only include awol purely because I feel it can't be discounted as a credible theory. While the family have confirmed Corrie wouldn't have gone awol it is still a possibilty based on the options we have, hence leaving it in.

I'm still thinking option 2 personally. This doesn't cover any motives or what happened next obviously.

 

[TheTruthWillOut]

I'm honestly not sure why there is still confusion about the area and access layout?

Short Brackland is a dead end road with the horseshoe area to allow vehicles to turn around and to the left and right there are pedestrian only walking paths to McDonalds and Greggs.

The horseshoe is a complete dead end for vehicles and people would have to do some climbing to access the roof. Unless a person was prepared to drop 20+ feet at the front of these buildings then I can't see any option other then to come back out the same way.

On the subject of bins again (groan), the only question I have now is was there another pick up later that day for general waste? I think this could be a very important point to answer.

 

[calo44]

You can exit that area back the way the filmer came, there is the left exit - which mill house fabrics (the empty shop is on) Short Brackland I think? Then you could walk through past the old shopping mall and down by McDonald's. Short Brackland feeds in around St John's St and Northgate St and could be used to get out of town. Walking directly past McDonald's would ultimately lead you to Northgate St, where you could head out of town, or turn left on to the bottom of angel Hill and carry straight out of town via Eastgate st.

Thank you, Tricksy!

So, the hooded figure filmed exiting the entrance that Corrie entered could have come from one of these two other entry points and may have not been just loitering in the horseshoe area? Is it a popular cut-through area for pedestrian traffic?

I had had pictured the horseshoe area as a true cul-de-sac, as if once Corrie turned down between those buildings he had no other way to exit than the way he entered. Now it looks like there were other exits (which I'm sure have all been checked via CCTV) but may explain all of the foot traffic in that area if it is a common short cut.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

While this thread was down, I took your advice and read the whole of the Susan McLean thread and it was absolutely incredible -- so many thanks for the suggestion.

Oh thanks, CarrieJ, it's a special thread indeed, especially Hippy's bombshell half way through huh! I had a couple of messages from people who also read it. I wish all threads could be like that with both family members and feet on the ground!

 

[Dcflag]

I think in terms of the bin collection we need to go on what tony has confirmed today. It was collected, there was another collection in mildenhall and then it went to the recycling centre.

No reputable company is going to give out information regarding a bin collection involved in a missing persons investigation to a stranger. So while we can reasonably assume it was a biffa bin (due to the bins all but one I believe being biffa in the area) we can't say much else. The lorry may have been contracted for example.

 

[Dcflag]

Oh thanks, CarrieJ, it's a special thread indeed, especially Hippy's bombshell half way through huh! I had a couple of messages from people who also read it. I wish all threads could be like that with both family members and feet on the ground!

Oh, me too by the way! For some reason I must have omitted the part where you said tragic so it really was sad to discover she passed away. But what an incredible act of kindness on hh part and the pulling together was heartwarming. I'm glad her family and friends got closure.

One thing that struck me was how she was found in an area that police managed to "Miss" buut at risk of going off topic ill just say thank you again.

 

[jessie]

Oh thanks, CarrieJ, it's a special thread indeed, especially Hippy's bombshell half way through huh! I had a couple of messages from people who also read it. I wish all threads could be like that with both family members and feet on the ground!

Have to say I read it as well Cags after your recommendation. Such a sad, sad outcome - but she was found thank goodness. Very moving thread indeed. A good tribute to WS.

 

[calo44]

I'm honestly not sure why there is still confusion about the area and access layout?

Short Brackland is a dead end road with the horseshoe area to allow vehicles to turn around and to the left and right there are pedestrian only walking paths to McDonalds and Greggs.

The horseshoe is a complete dead end for vehicles and people would have to do some climbing to access the roof. Unless a person was prepared to drop 20+ feet at the front of these buildings then I can't see any option other then to come back out the same way.

On the subject of bins again (groan), the only question I have now is was there another pick up later that day for general waste? I think this could be a very important point to answer.

Sorry, TruthWillOut -

I think some of us hearing the term "horseshoe" pictured it a little differently in our heads. For myself, I truly thought it referred to the entire alley area between those buildings in which Corrie walked - meaning he had to come out the same way he went in. I had pictured it as a darkened, dead-end and in hearing the volume of foot traffic in that area, it sounded like it would be a great place for drug activity. But after seeing that it could be part of a common pedestrian cut-through, it's totally changed my thoughts. I didn't mean to be thick on it, just had the wrong image in my head and couldn't make sense of the conversation based on my image

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Oh, me too by the way! For some reason I must have omitted the part where you said tragic so it really was sad to discover she passed away. But what an incredible act of kindness on hh part and the pulling together was heartwarming. I'm glad her family and friends got closure.

One thing that struck me was how she was found in an area that police managed to "Miss" buut at risk of going off topic ill just say thank you again.

Have to say I read it as well Cags after your recommendation. Such a sad, sad outcome - but she was found thank goodness. Very moving thread indeed. A good tribute to WS.

Awww you guys!! Thanks for reading it - feels like it's how threads should be done and I've never known a member go 'above and beyond' like that. That, and the Becky Watts thread, are great examples of how we should conduct ourselves, in my opinion, and it's cases like those that keep me here.

 

[calo44]

Just curious - but does Bury St. Edmunds have a drug problem? (I'm sure every town has its questionable areas, but is this particular area known to be "questionable"?)

 

[Dcflag]

Sorry, TruthWillOut -

I think some of us hearing the term "horseshoe" pictured it a little differently in our heads. For myself, I truly thought it referred to the entire alley area between those buildings in which Corrie walked - meaning he had to come out the same way he went in. I had pictured it as a darkened, dead-end and in hearing the volume of foot traffic in that area, it sounded like it would be a great place for drug activity. But after seeing that it could be part of a common pedestrian cut-through, it's totally changed my thoughts. I didn't mean to be thick on it, just had the wrong image in my head and couldn't make sense of the conversation based on my image

Scroll back a few pages there's some photos. On the official find Corrie website there is also a video walkthrough of the path Corrie took for clarification if this helps.