UK UK - Corrie McKeague, 23, Bury St Edmunds, 24 September 2016 #5

[markymint]

Cool Thanks! Are you suggesting the legs guy is there at 3:24 and 3:40?

The problem I have with that is that, in CCTV#2 with a little image adjustment, you can see the legs guy walking down from the Cornhill shopping center entrance - at the very least - on the other side of the Short Brackland road turning. The legs person appears to start in that clip from roughly where "skinny hooded guy" is stood. So they are not hanging around that area at the start of the clip, they walk down into it, from the opposite end of the Horseshoe near Cornhill entrance.

That's not to say someone is NOT pacing up and down from 3.20 through to 3.40. I think someone IS loitering in that fashion, but I don't feel anyone is stood in the alleyway (that Corrie runs down) in wait or anything.

And nice point about the timings. Not sure at this point! I'm having some difficulty with it. See, in the shot of the group of 3, and in a shot of 2 people, from the CCTV angle in Cornhill, you can see a large light on the left bathing the area. When skinny guy and short fat guy walk past, that light is off. Yet in Corrie's video and in running man's that large light appears to be on (I'm having some difficulty confirming that but it looks that way to me for now).

This would suggest to me that Corrie's video and the running man's are near the same time, as you suggest (OR a light switches off for some reason in between the two videos). Though I thought it was established (your times seem to solidify it) that Corrie was 3.25 and running man was 3.40. Yet that big light is on at both those points and I don't know where to place the other 2 when the light is off, whether the light goes off inbetween those times, or we're looking at the same time for those 2 and the light goes off AFTER that (or before). Confusing! But someone perhaps knows the times of each person in the CCTV clips (the new ones of several people)? Anyway thanks for updating the img

 

[hazel324]

Original image courtesy of Markymint, enhanced by MidsummersDay.

Yay I can see the figures....I put my glasses on!

(jk the enhanced images worked, thanks again)

edit to ask: is blue line figure lurking in shadows....could've been hanging around there over crucial time period as opposed to the other people who just walk/run past the area..?

 

[bestie]

Yes I'm sure he looks back towards that space too.

I am guessing that the second cctv of Corrie going to the bin area actually shows more.The cctv waits for him to appear unless it was purposely released like that.

 

[MidsummersDay]

 

[Dcflag]

Any thoughts on the figure on the very very left hand corner of the indoor shots? In all of them I think so must have been loitering

 

[markymint]

Good point. CCTV #2 should have a lot more, including Corrie walking with his kebab earlier on, using the doorstep to sleep, walking down toward the alley and up to the moments he's seen running and turning to bins. That camera swings around every 10 seconds to a new angle at the least and possibly has motion detection at best, so at least 3 angles which would see him (Brentgrovel Street, Horsehoe alley wide, Horseshoe alley closeup), 1 of which probably wouldn't (St John's). There's also that angle you see briefly at end of recent new CCTV video, which is I believe the same camera looking downwards at the small courtyard in front of Gregg's and Greenwoods, again another angle he could potentially be seen on. Point being, they've definitely cut down CCTV #2, there should be a good minute or more leading up to that closeup with him in.

 

[cotswoldemmie]

In the second footage that was released, is it possible that Corrie had taken a shove from that person standing in the shadows on the left? Hence why he was jogging/stumbling to catch his balance? He then looks around, then glances back at that person to see what he's doing and whether he's being followed. It seems the way he then drops & turns his head slightly is what people do to see something in their peripheral vision, not wanting to look directly at or make eye contact with someone to avoid conflict/confrontation


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[MidsummersDay]

Cool Thanks! Are you suggesting the legs guy is there at 3:24 and 3:40?

The problem I have with that is that, in CCTV#2 with a little image adjustment, you can see the legs guy walking down from the Cornhill shopping center entrance - at the very least - on the other side of the Short Brackland road turning. The legs person appears to start in that clip from roughly where "skinny hooded guy" is stood. So they are not hanging around that area at the start of the clip, they walk down into it, from the opposite end of the Horseshoe near Cornhill entrance.

That's not to say someone is NOT pacing up and down from 3.20 through to 3.40. I think someone IS loitering in that fashion, but I don't feel anyone is stood in the alleyway (that Corrie runs down) in wait or anything.

And nice point about the timings. Not sure at this point! I'm having some difficulty with it. See, in the shot of the group of 3, and in a shot of 2 people, from the CCTV angle in Cornhill, you can see a large light on the left bathing the area. When skinny guy and short fat guy walk past, that light is off. Yet in Corrie's video and in running man's that large light appears to be on (I'm having some difficulty confirming that but it looks that way to me for now).

This would suggest to me that Corrie's video and the running man's are near the same time, as you suggest (OR a light switches off for some reason in between the two videos). Though I thought it was established (your times seem to solidify it) that Corrie was 3.25 and running man was 3.40. Yet that big light is on at both those points and I don't know where to place the other 2 when the light is off, whether the light goes off inbetween those times, or we're looking at the same time for those 2 and the light goes off AFTER that (or before). Confusing! But someone perhaps knows the times of each person in the CCTV clips (the new ones of several people)? Anyway thanks for updating the img

I'm suggesting that the 'swinging basket/light reflection/video noise' that I noticed in the 0324 cctv is coming from the doorway adjacent to the Nailbar according to my calculations. Take a look. If we're being honest (and it should be illegal in my book), I've never come across a CCTV system that is 100% time accurate so I take the 0324 signature with a pinch of salt. I've come across many that are 10 minutes out of sync with the atomic time.
The telling statement is the woman who vocalised 'it's twenty to four' in the 'running man' CCTV. If the two videos are of a similar time frame (ie moments apart), then the 'swinging basket figure' and the 'legs figure' could be the same person(s).

 

[Tillymint]

Yes his body language in the second cctv is interesting. He looks around in quite an apprehensive way and moves quite slowly and deliberately towards the bin area. But you're right, the person who said about him being unlikely to go for a pee while an unknown is lurking round the corner.

 

[hazel324]

Stephen Port conviction has just made prime time News down this way

It is a timely reminder that, whilst sleuthers/onlookers may say “there would of course have been forensic evidence etc etc.” when discussing theories, it just cannot be taken for granted that this has been gathered effectively (or at all!)

Jack Taylor (at the very least) would still be alive if basic investigative work had been done competently

 

[markymint]

I'm not seeing this "swinging basket figure". Where is it please?

 

[MidsummersDay]

I have to say (and it's unprofessional of me granted. I'm just venting), it seems to be a right old cake and asre party this does. I've tried to remain impartial and open minded but I'm struggling. I make a point of never letting feeling cloud my judgement but this situation appears to be horlicks! If Suffolk Police have missed these bins from day one I'm gonna be a grumpy teddy bear guaranteed.
Rant over, back to unbiased professionalism!

 

[Dcflag]

I have to say (and it's unprofessional of me granted. I'm just venting), it seems to be a right old cake and asre party this does. I've tried to remain impartial and open minded but I'm struggling. I make a point of never letting feeling cloud my judgement but this situation appears to be horlicks! If Suffolk Police have missed these bins from day one I'm gonna be a grumpy teddy bear guaranteed.
Rant over, back to unbiased professionalism!

A grumpy teddy bear!

I agree though if it turns out that is what happened here they have utterly utterly failed the family.

 

[MidsummersDay]

I'm not seeing this "swinging basket figure". Where is it please?

This is a stock image. Compare the movement of the Corrie CCTV 0324 footage of the same place circled yellow.

 

[chickenbeakin]

Could the running man have been looking for Corrie? Some debate over what he was wearing I see a suit others see a hoody.

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I agree it looks like the back of a suit flipping up.

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[PilgrimsPrayer]

Fundamental flaws as I see them:

Does the 'lurking figure' have the gait of an individual who could cause significant harm to a 90kg squaddie? Would they be able to get them in to the bin as a dead weight?

If an attack did occur then surely DNA would be in the horseshoe area or somebody would have been alerted to the ensuing struggle to hide the body. Even the three teenagers would struggle between them.

If Corrie was put inside a different bin then for his body to go unnoticed by staff members there must have been a pre-9am collection, to which there has been no mention.

The random pickup- it should be made clear that the horseshoe area is not directly accessible by vehicle, it forms part of a pedestrianised zone. Locals might nip through from Short Brackland to Looms Lane area but a sat Nav would not suggest this route to his location. So therefore a potential perp is likely local.

If the police suspected that a murder had occurred that was so random, then warnings to the public would have been highly visible.

I actually don't see a plausible possibility unless the DNA gathering was corrupted but that's not an assumption we can work with.

 

[chickenbeakin]

I don't think that the running man has anything to do with it after looking at it he doesn't even look in to the loading bay his probely just late getting home, I think that the group of people are more inportent, in the last CCTV corrie looks back maybe they were following him and he went in to loading bay to hide until they went away but they found him, tried to rob him but corrie put up a fight and got stabbed , they take walet and phone phone in one bin corrie in another bin coverd up with some rubbish , of to landfill most probely by Monday, then bin cleaner comes round and cleans bin of all evidence,

I agree with the running man he just looks like he is running. The group of three dont look suspicious to me and I thought , oh an older lady and two younger people. Where does the person look into? Its as if something catches their eye but not enough to alert the other two.

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[markymint]

It's definitely a guy in a hoodie, unzipped, blowing freely as he runs. You can see the tassels swinging about by his neck, in some frames you can clearly see a hood. It's not a full on chav hoody (for a start it would likely be light grey if it was!) but it's definitely not a suit.

MidsummersDay, thanks for pointing it out. Long and short of it, I don't believe that theory myself. The thing on the wall moving very slightly is there both on Corrie's and on running man's clips, looking at street view you'd have to be one skinny so and so to stand there undetected, and one patient so and so to stand in that spot between the two shots (if they're more than a few minutes apart) ... a very weird place for anyone to stand really.

 

[hazel324]

Fundamental flaws as I see them:

Does the 'lurking figure' have the gait of an individual who could cause significant harm to a 90kg squaddie? Would they be able to get them in to the bin as a dead weight?

If an attack did occur then surely DNA would be in the horseshoe area or somebody would have been alerted to the ensuing struggle to hide the body. Even the three teenagers would struggle between them.

If Corrie was put inside a different bin then for his body to go unnoticed by staff members there must have been a pre-9am collection, to which there has been no mention.

The random pickup- it should be made clear that the horseshoe area is not directly accessible by vehicle, it forms part of a pedestrianised zone. Locals might nip through from Short Brackland to Looms Lane area but a sat Nav would not suggest this route to his location. So therefore a potential perp is likely local.

If the police suspected that a murder had occurred that was so random, then warnings to the public would have been highly visible.

I actually don't see a plausible possibility unless the DNA gathering was corrupted but that's not an assumption we can work with.

Again, we can't assume DNA (both gathering or not finding) leads in any direction. This was a missing person’s case and a good few days had passed before this was even noted. If LE didn’t believe a crime had been committed....was (C)SI carried out..? Incident Scene Investigation instead, a week or so later?

Following rain/foot traffic/bin lorries etc. there would not have been an uncontaminated scene to investigate.

 

[MidsummersDay]

It's definitely a guy in a hoodie, unzipped, blowing freely as he runs. You can see the tassels swinging about by his neck, in some frames you can clearly see a hood. It's not a full on chav hoody (for a start it would likely be light grey if it was!) but it's definitely not a suit.

MidsummersDay, thanks for pointing it out. Long and short of it, I don't believe that theory myself. The thing on the wall moving very slightly is there both on Corrie's and on running man's clips, looking at street view you'd have to be one skinny so and so to stand there undetected, and one patient so and so to stand in that spot between the two shots (if they're more than a few minutes apart) ... a very weird place for anyone to stand really.