Identified! UK - David Lytton, South Pennines, 'Neil Dovestone', 65-75, Dec'15

[Ellmau]

64 Oxford Gardens was converted back into a single dwelling only a few years ago, having previously been

s/c flat at second floor level, a maisonette at rear basement, ground and 1st floor levels and two bedsitting units at basement
level

. It seems to have been flats before that, since at least 1997, although it's not clear what it was like in the 40s/50s.


https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc...LUME1&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=6

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc...LUME2&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc...LUME2&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

 

[CoverMeCagney]

64 Oxford Gardens was converted back into a single dwelling only a few years ago, having previously been . It seems to have been flats before that, since at least 1997, although it's not clear what it was like in the 40s/50s.


https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc...LUME1&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=6

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc...LUME2&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

https://www.rbkc.gov.uk/idoxWAM/doc...LUME2&contentType=application/pdf&pageCount=1

I'd love to know what it was like post-war. Was the family crammed into half a floor of the house, or were they wealthy enough to afford the whole thing? I reckon the former, but would love it to be the latter.

I did notice when researching the Lautenbergs that there was a birth someone up north, Prescot I think. It's the only northern connection I've found and was only by surname. Could David have had a grandad or uncle living up there? Might he have visited Saddleworth as a kid? Unlikley, but it's 40 miles between the two, you never know.

 

[Ellmau]

ISTR I saw some Lautenbergs in Liverpool when looking at Ancestry.

 

[jslk]

My streatham dwelling father lived with lodgers in the home during his childhood in the 1950s.

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[DanceCard]

Sorry if already posted but there's an article in today's Guardian.

Interesting about the name change, if correct plus some more information about DL's life.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...moor-video-david-lytton-loner-different-light

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Sorry if already posted but there's an article in today's Guardian.

Interesting about the name change, if correct plus some more information about DL's life.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...moor-video-david-lytton-loner-different-light

From that article:


[He] was an incredibly shy, introverted man who had lived in London for three decades before briefly moving to Florida in the US

Lytton had suffered from depression for a number of years due to a family feud which resulted in him changing his name

But now it can be revealed that the former tube driver was in a relationship for more than 15 years with a woman who counselled him through bouts of depression.

Lytton was in a relationship for more than 15 years. Describing his partner as a well-spoken white woman with mousey brown, shoulder-length hair, [neighbour] Best says she would often visit him, clean his house, cut his hedges and even sing for him.

But Best claims he moved to Florida and left behind his partner, who then searched for him over a number of years.“A while after he left, I got a phone call from his lady friend. She asked me if I had seen him and I hadn’t. She told me that she believed he had moved to Florida and she was going to contact the American embassy. That was the last time I heard from her and, David, well we never saw him again.”

 

[jslk]

From that article:


[He] was an incredibly shy, introverted man who had lived in London for three decades before briefly moving to Florida in the US

Lytton had suffered from depression for a number of years due to a family feud which resulted in him changing his name

But now it can be revealed that the former tube driver was in a relationship for more than 15 years with a woman who counselled him through bouts of depression.

Lytton was in a relationship for more than 15 years. Describing his partner as a well-spoken white woman with mousey brown, shoulder-length hair, [neighbour] Best says she would often visit him, clean his house, cut his hedges and even sing for him.

But Best claims he moved to Florida and left behind his partner, who then searched for him over a number of years.“A while after he left, I got a phone call from his lady friend. She asked me if I had seen him and I hadn’t. She told me that she believed he had moved to Florida and she was going to contact the American embassy. That was the last time I heard from her and, David, well we never saw him again.”

Gosh that is so so sad 😢

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[Pinny]

I wonder if, as a tube driver, he may have witnessed suicides. He almost certainly had colleagues who did and who may have suffered trauma due to it. He therefore wanted to end his own life somewhere more remote and in a less messy way.

 

[dotr]

I wonder if, as a tube driver, he may have witnessed suicides. He almost certainly had colleagues who did and who may have suffered trauma due to it. He therefore wanted to end his own life somewhere more remote and in a less messy way.

Welcome to Ws Pinny!
Have also wondered about the possibility that DL witnessed suicides in his job as a tube worker, perhaps contributing to his depression.
Also, he was found near a foot path suggesting, imo. that he did want to be found and perhaps buried too.
Although, i do wonder why he kept the fairly large amount of money in his pockets along with the unused train tickets, when he could have given them all away?
Could there be a cultural ( of one kind or another ) reason for that, such as entering "after-life " with money and tickets to travel, or to make his death seem unexpected as opposed to a suicide?
imo, speculation.

 

[Ellmau]

Another interesting snippet from the Guardian article:

The connection with Pakistan remains obscure but a number of neighbours confirmed that Lytton had a Pakistani lodger, a bus driver. Some suggested this may have been his reason for moving to Lahore.

I see the Guardian didn't work out his birth name, though.

 

[dotr]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/m...-worked-as-a-london-tube-driver-a3453926.html

He said: “The only real conversation I remember having with David was when I asked him what it was like driving a train.

"He opened up.
“He was talking about the hours he was out and what it's like driving through a tunnel.

"I remember thinking 'wow that's the first time I've heard David talk'. He really was a man of mystery to me.”
Others said Mr Lytton spent 10 years living in the suburbs of Pakistani city Lahore and added that he had taken on lodgers, including an Asian man – with whom he became close – after being made redundant from a London casino in the 1980s.

"Sometimes they would enter the house together, sometimes they would leave together."
A full inquest in to the death will take place on March 14

 

[pinklilies]

That Guardian article paints a sad picture. I wonder if he did go to Florida before he made his way to Pakistan.

I'm still intrigued about the injury he received when he had the plate fitted to his femur as, if it wasn't for that, they may never have identified him.

The injury was a serious one - caused by “quite a significant impact fall - either from a running or standing position or a collision with an obstacle”, says Coleman. It happened in or before 2013.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/resources/idt-e8c6cbab-da44-4a3c-8f9b-c4fccd53dd24

And all his clothes were said to be from M&S, purchased in the UK according to the labels. So I can't help think he bought them here after he arrived. Maybe another action to stop him being identified if his other clothes could be traced back to Pakistan.

All in all, he certainly seemed to go to a lot of trouble to make sure he sadly, remained anonymous.









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[carbuff]

Poor man. I'm glad he has his name back, though it sounds like he might not have wanted it. I hope he has found peace now.

 

[Spyder84]

.....

 

[Spyder84]

Yeah Oxford Gardens looks like a nice road, but I don't know what it was like in the 40s and 50s.




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My social history knowledge of that specific part of london is poor, however I know across London properties like that were often rented out, one room per family, and some of those properties could be quite nice, for the most part however they were pretty appalling places to live, as I said my knowledge isn't great, I know more about Glasgow and Dublin social history then anything else. However, during the 1960's when the economy was getting back on its feet after the war years a lot of money moved in to london and has continued to move in, properties like that would have been eventually cleared of families as housing law became tighter and they were either left to rot and ruin or were sold on, and eventually turned in to the multi-million pound mini mansions we see now a days in London

 

[pinklilies]

Welcome to Ws Pinny!
Have also wondered about the possibility that DL witnessed suicides in his job as a tube worker, perhaps contributing to his depression.
Also, he was found near a foot path suggesting, imo. that he did want to be found and perhaps buried too.
Although, i do wonder why he kept the fairly large amount of money in his pockets along with the unused train tickets, when he could have given them all away?
Could there be a cultural ( of one kind or another ) reason for that, such as entering "after-life " with money and tickets to travel, or to make his death seem unexpected as opposed to a suicide?
imo, speculation.

Perhaps he got a return ticket and kept the money in case he couldn't find how to get to the top of the mountain and in that instance, would head back to London? Doesn't explain why he had no loose change on him though.


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[ShakerSince92]

Poor man. I'm glad he has his name back, though it sounds like he might not have wanted it. I hope he has found peace now.

Just playing devil's advocate here.

Maybe he isn't a "poor man" and he created the secrecy because he was running away from some form of scandal which hasn't yet been discovered or revealed.

 

[tallmansix]

Perhaps he got a return ticket and kept the money in case he couldn't find how to get to the top of the mountain and in that instance, would head back to London? Doesn't explain why he had no loose change on him though.


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Oddly it can be cheaper to buy a return on some train journeys rather than a single.

From Euston to Piccadilly the ticket is £82 single on a Friday at about 10am.

For the same journey with a return the next day at 10am it is only £74 and I expect this was the option taken.


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[pinklilies]

Oddly it can be cheaper to buy a return on some train journeys rather than a single.

From Euston to Piccadilly the ticket is £82 single on a Friday at about 10am.

For the same journey with a return the next day at 10am it is only £74 and I expect this was the option taken.


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Yea I get that but this man seems to be intentionally going to end his life, why would he be bothered about saving a few pounds? He still had £130 in his pocket.

 

[dotr]

Perhaps he got a return ticket and kept the money in case he couldn't find how to get to the top of the mountain and in that instance, would head back to London? Doesn't explain why he had no loose change on him though.


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Rbbm.
Just dawned on me that DL may have used up his change at the arcade he visited en route to his final destination.