Identified! UK - David Lytton, South Pennines, 'Neil Dovestone', 65-75, Dec'15

[LadyL]

such as ...

I think it likely he knew the bottle contained strychnine, which is why it was kept in the box. I would assume most people would discard the box of a bottle of pills that were taken daily. By keeping the bottle inside the box he couldn't inadvertently take the strychnine. Although the box had fallen apart due to getting wet, it did look very battered as if it had been carried in his pocket for quite some time. Maybe he carried it on his person in case of an emergency?

 

[Tulessa]

What doesn't sit right with me, is why did this friend not recognise David from all the media appeals, theres not a single person I know who didnt know of this, maybe its because of the industry I work in but even so, the police appeals went worldwide - I can not believe that his friend did not see the appeals and didnt think to question why David had suddenly disappeared without a word to anyone - Now I am not saying his friend had anything to do with this, but I think he must have a lot of answers

The answer could be as simple as, they don't watch much TV. I don't watch unless it's a crime covered on WS. JMO. I even missed this Doc. I couldn't find it on DISH.

 

[LadyL]

[bbm] if so, what was he involved in that would result in his 'clandestine' murder?

Well, I thought that was well put together, it's not often I sit down and watch an entire program but I was gripped.. Feel satisfied that "our" investigation here pretty much mirrored what the police were busy doing, I think we covered everything, apart from maybe "Basil the Hatton Garden robber"!

Still so many questions to answer... Why Pakistan? Who posted his letters from California (assuming he never went there)? Where is his luggage and passport? Why book 5 days in London hotel? One of the CID ladies feels he didn't intend to die that day, could he have taken strychnine without knowing what it was? And WHY on earth Saddleworth??!

Jeremy, I think you summed up what so many families and friends feel when someone goes missing.... "coulda shoulda woulda"... I hope the family are ok with the open verdict and the fact that this puzzle will probably never fully be resolved.

 

[Tulessa]

Does anyone have a link to this documentary? TIA!

 

[trendsetter]

The answer could be as simple as, they don't watch much TV.

Or read newspapers, or use the internet, or talk to anyone.

 

[jslk]

I have to say the case is and was pretty high profile - I'm sure David's picture was in print media and the story was referenced on radio as well as internet/tv.

Sent from my SM-J500FN using Tapatalk

 

[OracleOne]

such as ...

I was thinking in the event that he had been a spy, it has been known for spies to carry lethal poison to kill themselves if they are in danger of being captured and tortured to reveal information. But the usual poison of choice is usually cyanide as it is swift. Strychnine would be torturous in itself.

 

[OracleOne]

The answer could be as simple as, they don't watch much TV. I don't watch unless it's a crime covered on WS. JMO. I even missed this Doc. I couldn't find it on DISH.

Must admit it has only recently come to my attention as I haven't had a TV for the last 3 years and don't read the news. I only got a TV at Christmas and often wonder why I did, as I rarely switch it on. Probably have been best if I hadn't heard about it, it's so puzzling my brain won't stop analysing it.

 

[dotr]

Does anyone have a link to this documentary? TIA!

This seems to be the link, but i have not been able to get it to play for me- really want to watch it too!
In the meantime, a youtube teaser..

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/mystery-of-the-man-on-the-moor/on-demand/64587-001

[video=youtube;HkpV4T4HTjs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HkpV4T4HTjs[/video]

 

[Ellmau]

http://www.channel4.com/programmes/mystery-of-the-man-on-the-moor

I think it's only available in the UK though, and you need to register.

 

[David's Brother]

I feel I should explain something, I am a newsaholic and wake up to a news channel every day, the entire year the Police spent looking for my brother completely passed me by. How? I have truly no idea, but I do not know anyone who knew about this either, so I am not alone. It was a very big story in the North but not so much here in the South. It was 3 months after I first knew about David that I met someone who actually followed the story and who knew about it. I have recently had 2 notes from distant relatives who have only just realised what has happened themselves.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

I feel I should explain something, I am a newsaholic and wake up to a news channel every day, the entire year the Police spent looking for my brother completely passed me by. How? I have truly no idea, but I do not know anyone who knew about this either, so I am not alone. It was a very big story in the North but not so much here in the South. It was 3 months after I first knew about David that I met someone who actually followed the story and who knew about it. I have recently had 2 notes from distant relatives who have only just realised what has happened themselves.

Do you think, Jeremy, that if you'd seen the story you would have twigged? For the most part of that year all we had was some blurry cctv, an artists sketch and rumours of a possible Pakistan link. Would you have recognised your brother had you just seen it flash up on the news one morning?

 

[loopdloop]

The letters sent to me stopped some time ago, there is confusion as to when exactly because I do not have them anymore. It is a waste of time chasing that because I know it now leads nowhere.

.

Dear Jeremy,

Thank you for your reply to my question about the letters. With genuine respect to you, this answer strikes me as very odd.

Can you at least confirm this reported information that his letters were sent from California?

I have to say it seems so very strange that he could live in Pakistan for ten years, and yet convey the impression to you via forwarded letters presumably, that he was living in California. There must be a reason why he would do this.

If you know it leads "nowhere", are you saying that this aspect of the case has been investigated and that you and the police are satisfied that this factor has nothing at all to do with the circumstances of his death?

I apologise for persisting with this, but your answer has only raised my curiosity levels on this detail of the affair.

Thank you.

 

[OracleOne]

I feel I should explain something, I am a newsaholic and wake up to a news channel every day, the entire year the Police spent looking for my brother completely passed me by. How? I have truly no idea, but I do not know anyone who knew about this either, so I am not alone. It was a very big story in the North but not so much here in the South. It was 3 months after I first knew about David that I met someone who actually followed the story and who knew about it. I have recently had 2 notes from distant relatives who have only just realised what has happened themselves.

My heart goes out to you, Jeremy. It must be so hard reading all these theories from complete strangers. Although I've added several myself, I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable. I think I will stop now as I don't want to add to the sadness of the loss of your brother. I do hope his belongings are found and your questions can finally be answered. God bless.

Edit: My post and the one from Loopdloop about the letters, crossed. I just want to say my post was in no way related to hers. They were just my personal thoughts.

 

[Spyder84]

I feel I should explain something, I am a newsaholic and wake up to a news channel every day, the entire year the Police spent looking for my brother completely passed me by. How? I have truly no idea, but I do not know anyone who knew about this either, so I am not alone. It was a very big story in the North but not so much here in the South. It was 3 months after I first knew about David that I met someone who actually followed the story and who knew about it. I have recently had 2 notes from distant relatives who have only just realised what has happened themselves.

I have to say, despite the huge media appeals, this may have gone over a lot of peoples heads, unless your naturally interested in this sort of thing, or like me, work in an industry where we spend most of our time trying to unravel mysteries. I too am a newsbuff, and have to say, thinking back, there have been other major stories in the media that may well have taken this off some peoples radars. I would also assume David's friend was an older gentleman, and not many people of that generation would have the sort of digital access to various news sites and as you said the attention was focused up North with little emphasis on London.

 

[Skyblueboy]

Hi Jeremy first of all could I compliment you on how you come across on the documentary considering what a difficult time it must be for you. I have read that during the late 20th century strychnine was actually used in small doses a performance enhancing drug during athletics. I was wondering if David had some of the poison in his system and it actually helped him with the difficult walk up the hill .

 

[David's Brother]

Do you think, Jeremy, that if you'd seen the story you would have twigged? For the most part of that year all we had was some blurry cctv, an artists sketch and rumours of a possible Pakistan link. Would you have recognised your brother had you just seen it flash up on the news one morning?

To be honest the identikit picture would probably not have twigged with me, but as soon as John Coleman sent me the Manchester Piccadilly cctv pics then I saw instantly who he was. It was like looking at a much older version of me. (Upon reflection I had the thought that I MUST start taking better care of myself!)

 

[David's Brother]

Hi Jeremy first of all could I compliment you on how you come across on the documentary considering what a difficult time it must be for you. I have read that during the late 20th century strychnine was actually used in small doses a performance enhancing drug during athletics. I was wondering if David had some of the poison in his system and it actually helped him with the difficult walk up the hill .

Thank you, I am old school through and through and not one for public breakdowns and hand wringing. My worst moment was thankfully only caught from behind as I followed his coffin to the plot.

Personally I definitely think that he used the Strychnine to help him with that walk up the hill.

 

[David's Brother]

My heart goes out to you, Jeremy. It must be so hard reading all these theories from complete strangers. Although I've added several myself, I'm feeling increasingly uncomfortable. I think I will stop now as I don't want to add to the sadness of the loss of your brother. I do hope his belongings are found and your questions can finally be answered. God bless.

Edit: My post and the one from Loopdloop about the letters, crossed. I just want to say my post was in no way related to hers. They were just my personal thoughts.

For some reason I am finding talking about it with complete strangers cathartic and relieving. No one has caused me any offence, but if you feel the way you do then by all means stop. None of this is meant to hurt anyone I am sure.

 

[loopdloop]

Personally I definitely think that he used the Strychnine to help him with that walk up the hill.

This is a fascinating thing to hear you say Jeremy. It is very hard to reconcile the idea that David's death was due solely to strychnine poisoning after reading around on its effects. A lethal dose should have left his body in a contorted position, but on the contrary, he was described as lying peacefully.

One small discrepancy I have noticed on rewatching the documentary: the "ranger" who attended the call to David's body reports that his arms were by his side, whereas the hiker who actually discovered him says that the arms were crossed across the chest. Yet another puzzle....

But back to the strychnine. It is eye-opening to read about the history of recreational use of strychnine. An Olympic weightlifter was disqualified from the 2016 Olympics for using strychnine as a performance enhancing drug!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-08-...or-doping-with-rat-poison/7765698?pfmredir=sm

H.G. Wells even mentions the use of strychnine in The Invisible Man. Here is the passage:

"[FONT=&quot]"All I could think clearly was that the thing had to be carried through; the fixed idea still ruled me. And soon, for the money I had was almost exhausted. I looked about me at the hillside, with children playing and girls watching them, and tried to think of all the fantastic advantages an invisible man would have in the world. After a time I crawled home, took some food and a strong dose of strychnine, and went to sleep in my clothes on my unmade bed. Strychnine is a grand tonic, Kemp, to take the flabbiness out of a man."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"It's the devil," said Kemp. "It's the palaeolithic in a bottle."[/FONT][FONT=&quot]"I awoke vastly invigorated and rather irritable. You know?""

The idea that David used strychnine "recreationally" therefore, whilst seemingly very unusual, is not at all unprecedented. It would make sense if this was the case that he himself brought the strychnine into the UK in his thyroid medicine bottle. But why then do the detectives in the documentary ask whether he could have taken it without realising? The thyroid bottle is clearly labelled as containing tablets, whereas the strychnine is very unlikely to be in tablet form, and even if it was, it would not have been the same size and shape. So it is impossible to imagine that someone had swapped the contents and David had taken them without realising. This consideration, in conjunction with the peaceful state of the body seems much more compatible with the idea of taking the strychnine recreationally, so to speak.

So why then did the autopsy conclude that he died from the strychnine poisoning? Surely the amount of strychnine in his system must have been minute if it was taken to enhance his ability to walk up the hill. Surely if he died from a combination of a very difficult walk and climb combined with the strychnine then it must have been something like a heart attack which killed him, rather than an overdose. Again, how could this not have been sorted out in the autopsy?

On second watching of the documentary, I am even more puzzled. Basic questions seem to go unanswered. One can read on the whiteboard about the credit card being used to pay for the flight, and how this needs to be investigated, and yet, Jeremy says in his reply above that this needs to be looked into, seeming to suggest that this has not been done.

The more I think about this tragic case, and forgive me, but it's hard not to, the more puzzling it all becomes.

Again, Jeremy, I offer these thoughts respectfully, and if at any time I am crossing an invisible line, please do not hesitate to say so. Otherwise, as you have asked for questions, I hope you won't mind me offering these observations and queries, and I remain very appreciative for any comments you can make.[/FONT]