GUILTY UK - Ellie Butler, 6, brutally murdered, Sutton, 28 Oct 2013 #1

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yes that's interesting :" unless she knew she was at fault and had something to hide too," and this is a very good point: "What mother can sit for an hour in a taxi, speaking to her daughter's killer, and not call the police and an ambulance before she gets home, to save her daughter if she is still alive or to arrest her partner if he has killed her? "

I never expected, that she had personally ever laid a finger on either daughter, but cunning men like him may have encouraged her to also keep crossing the line, in order that she share the guilt/wrongdoing and make it very hard for her to ever go against him, eg. with social services.

PS. Just thought , in hindsight her "you've gone where" could be her mishearing part of his possible sentence wtte " i've gone through all your drawers/the whole house..." or something pertaining to the sweep , even "I've gone on-line...... "


Gigi - the more you consider what was or was not done in the minutes after his assault eg did he attempt resus or not or just spend more time staging, the more heinous this becomes especially for sentencing. The pair have lived very strange, murky lives indeed, (possibly with few outside friends) which they have developed over years. If they are still "together", this makes a relationship of at least 10years duration.

I noticed in one of the very earliest reports in Telegraph ( 28th or 29th Oct) , a friendly neighbour who also looked after the dog, (probably Marion Cook, can't recall exactly?) said of Ellie" she hadn't had any life" and that JG also told her, on picking up the dog " Ellie fell off the bed, into the radiator" or wtte, so poss incriminating unless she says Marion got it wrong and JG was only surmising as to what happened.
(Poor granddad gave his reaction in that early account too, not going to name him, he is another victim.)

To stick with his version he has to say that he thought she was asleep until they BOTH discovered her body, it's a pity the experts can't be definitive on her dying around 12-1 rather than 2.46 onwards- a long delay without resus carries weight as an aggravating factor.

Only other incidental point -is when I looked at past addresses to check if it was really her in the old 2011 report of wrongdoing, he never appears, as if perhaps he is not a fan of the electoral roll.
There is also the curious newspaper "reader comment" at the base of one of Supernovae's first article links - not going to refer to that explicitly as it is probably baseless and thus libellous to do so but I am half- expecting him to have some type of previous in terms of a crim record that will come out later, after trial - because of the anger and psychopathy features so far.

Still no idea what the admission of perverting c of justice will be - can't just be her washing his blood spattered clothes or such like?
Thank you for this. I shall go Google. See what happens when I throw some random queries.
Now any 'normal' mother/father/ guardians would whole heartedly put the child first. Nothing out of the ordinary from mammal to animal to human. We all raise our young and put their welfare above all else.
Anything other than that is just not normal in moo.
If it were me in that taxi an hours drive from home I would be beside myself. Frantic. Crying.
But as we know this is no normal situation.
I find it cold and calculating that they both are 'arranging' a scene in readiness for the call to ES.
Perverting the course of Justice. Would start initially here. As they try to stage Ellie's final moments.
As the LE would question BB and JG. Then more incidents will of been covered up.
The more they both try to cover up. The more there is to unravel. And this time there's no 'traumatic birth' to swing in his favour. Although I already think he has a notion to explain away Ellie's injuries. Or at least a good percentage of them.
They've already said that Ellie is prone to falling. They'll probably work that one.

I totally agree with you about BB having previous.
Sometimes a lucky shot with Google might throw up some random information.

I'm hoping that the forensic expert's do come in agreement with cause of Death.
(That it's not at the hands of Peppa the Pig)

Also looking forward to cross examinations. And them both taking the stand independently.
Till then. I guess it's gonna be one heck of a case.
And at the end of it. I only want one thing.. #JusticeforEllie




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Just another note: he was exonerated by the family court before Ellie was returned home so there would have been little to no follow up from social services after she had been reintegrated into the family.

Does anyone who has been in court know how long the trial is expected to last?
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19935690

It was noticed Ellie had injuries on her forehead and hand, consistent with burns.
Further inquiries revealed that, just over a week before admission, she had rolled off a pillow and come into contact with a radiator while in her father's care.

Didn't know she was burnt as a baby as well :(

On Friday, Mrs Justice Hogg sanctioned the return of Ellie and her sister to their parents' care.
She said Mr Butler, 32, and Ellie's mother, Jennie Gray, had shown "tenacity and courage".
"It is seldom that I see a 'happy end' in public law proceedings. It is a joy for me to oversee the return of a child to her parents," the judge said.

I bet the judge feels absolutely awful now

The judge said it was "more likely than not" that throat abnormalities related to Ellie's voicebox had caused her collapse and eye bleeding.
She surmised the bleeding on the brain was caused by the "inexperienced" father's panicked actions in seeking to resuscitate his daughter.
She ruled Mr Butler was not culpable for the burns Ellie suffered earlier from the radiator and there was no evidence he had acted "maliciously, deliberately or intentionally" to cause her injury.
The judge observed: "The parents have weathered the storm. They have each been resilient and determined, and shown tenacity and courage."

This just makes me feel sick
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tion-was-quashed-faces-new-access-battle.html

This report from 2010 says that JG was BB "then-partner" suggesting that they split up for a while

(I'm searching the google archives pre October 2013, so may be a few posts of 'old' news coming up)

ETA: It says that he had no prior convictions too, so I think the rumour from the comments section may be just a rumour

ETA2:
The mother, who can not be named for legal reasons, said: “Because I didn’t come out and attack Ben and say I thought he’d harm her, they ridiculed me.
“My child means everything to me and now I’m only able to see her six times a year. I was told at one point that if I went against Ben it would be to my advantage and I’d have more chance of getting my daughter back.
"It’s outrageous. Because I took Ben’s side they decided that I was a risk to my child. It’s been horrendous.”

Just shocking...I'm not a mother, but I think in that case I would say anything to be able to see my baby. Just MOO though, I'm sure some would disagree
 
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19935690



Didn't know she was burnt as a baby as well :(



I bet the judge feels absolutely awful now



This just makes me feel sick
Man...... don't that even poke you with a stick to say 'hmm something doesn't add up here'
Then the residing Judge could of put an order on Ellie's home coming that for the foreseeable future. Home visits from Health Visitor and a catch up from Social Services bimonthly. To ensure a happy wholesome home coming. And that will also enable them to monitor Ellie's progress. From injuries she'd sustained.....

Hindsight is such a wonderful thing ):

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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tion-was-quashed-faces-new-access-battle.html

This report from 2010 says that JG was BB "then-partner" suggesting that they split up for a while

(I'm searching the google archives pre October 2013, so may be a few posts of 'old' news coming up)

ETA: It says that he had no prior convictions too, so I think the rumour from the comments section may be just a rumour

ETA2:

Just shocking...I'm not a mother, but I think in that case I would say anything to be able to see my baby. Just MOO though, I'm sure some would disagree
As the law states. If knowingly. A mother stays with a partner who has caused harm. Or threatened to. Then the mother is just as guilty. For enabling a possibility of Child endangerment.

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I was at court for this afternoon's session.

The head teacher of Ellie's school gave evidence, mainly focused on her very poor attendance records.

This was a new school for Ellie after going back to live with her parents in December 2012, starting from the new term in January of 2013, the same year she died.

She didn't turn up on the first day and JG phoned to say she had chicken pox. The next day Social Services contacted the school because they had discovered JG had been admitted to hospital (it wasn't stated why she was in hospital). SS were concerned because they didn't know who had Ellie (strangely), but they then got back in touch with school and said she was with her father. So Ellie missed the first week or more of school. Then in Feb she had another spell of time off school, I can't remember the length of it because after a while there was just too much info to commit to memory, but I do remember that by the April the school were really concerned because her attendance was 72.5% (her absences totalled 14 days by April) and they summoned JG to a meeting. She cancelled twice and got quite angry with a member of staff at the school on the phone, saying she wanted a letter from them setting out the reason for the meeting to give to her solicitor.

JG, and I think BB also, eventually met with the school and said they were concerned that the school had information about BB's conviction and were treating them differently from other parents. They came in with press cuttings about their case and said the school should Google them.

In June I think there was further concern raised about absence. JG phoned to say Ellie had tripped up a step and banged her head on the ground.

In July Ellie missed the last day of term and parents didn't contact the school. School contacted JG and she said she thought they had broken up for Summer hols the previous week and they were on their way to a family holiday she had booked.

In the September Ellie missed the first 6 or 7 days of the new term. No explanation given by parents. Also younger sister had been booked in to start in the nursery class and she wasn't taken either. Head didn't think it was because of a family holiday because they had already taken their holiday in July.

Then in the first week of October, the month that Ellie died, she missed 9 days of school. JG phoned them to say the whole family had flu. When Ellie returned to school concerns were raised by staff about her appearance. She had a mark around her eye, yellow/brown, and a mark on her forehead and a plaster above her eyebrow. Three different staff members questioned her separately about how she had got the injuries and she told them that she had tripped over the puppy. They were satisfied that it was the truth. Ellie was happy and drawing a picture while staff were talking to her.

There was some disagreement with the parents about a doctor's medical note that she had been required to give the school. They said it had been put in Ellie's bag but when the teachers searched her bag it wasn't there. Parents said it was because JG had taken it back out of the bag when Ellie came home from school. Head asked them to send it in again the following day. JG was really angry with them on the phone and said they were being victimised.

Next day head saw BB waiting outside the office with Ellie and he came out to speak to him, Ellie went into class, BB was with Izzy. Head took BB through the security doors into a corridor to sit and speak with him about the sick note. BB's manner was "very aggressive, confrontational and he spoke in a very loud voice/shouted". Head was concerned about children in classrooms down the corridor hearing him and about Izzy also being present while he was behaving in this manner, so he stood up to end the meeting, opened the security door and asked BB to leave. He left.

I think Ellie's attendance for that short half term was something like 13%.

BB's barrister asked if he had any reason to think that Ellie was not happy or comfortable when he had seen her with her father. He said he hadn't seen her with her father (apart from that day outside the office) he had only seen him standing in the playground by the bike sheds with the puppy, waiting for Ellie. But he hadn't any reason to think she wasn't a happy child. Barrister also pointed out that there was no legal requirement for Izzy to attend nursery at that age, her attendance sessions added up to just 3 days by the time Ellie died.

JG's barrister asked about the return from the 9 day absence with plaster on her head at the beginning of October, if Ellie appeared to be in any pain. He said he hadn't been given any reason to think she was in pain. I think that must be when they suspect the broken shoulder occurred, and will be trying to show that JG wasn't aware Ellie was in pain.

Think that's about it. Oh yes, one more thing - JG sent them an angry email after the incident with BB/head, listing points she wanted the school to address, but it never happened because of Ellie's death. I think one of the points on the list was the surname she wanted them to use and another mentioned the grandparents and access with Ellie, but I didn't catch the context of that.
 
So much is popping up now. I'm beginning to wonder. How the heck did this stay so quiet so long.
And JG said she was worried when she fell pregnant with their second child that Social Services might take the baby from her at birth. She moved away and used a different name......

Everything is just screaming at me right now. JG KNEW of BB and his temper..and possibly that he'd take it out on the children... why else hide?

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I was at court for this afternoon's session.

The head teacher of Ellie's school gave evidence, mainly focused on her very poor attendance records.

This was a new school for Ellie after going back to live with her parents in December 2012, starting from the new term in January of 2013, the same year she died.

She didn't turn up on the first day and JG phoned to say she had chicken pox. The next day Social Services contacted the school because they had discovered JG had been admitted to hospital (it wasn't stated why she was in hospital). SS were concerned because they didn't know who had Ellie (strangely), but they then got back in touch with school and said she was with her father. So Ellie missed the first week or more of school. Then in Feb she had another spell of time off school, I can't remember the length of it because after a while there was just too much info to commit to memory, but I do remember that by the April the school were really concerned because her attendance was 72.5% (her absences totalled 14 days by April) and they summoned JG to a meeting. She cancelled twice and got quite angry with a member of staff at the school on the phone, saying she wanted a letter from them setting out the reason for the meeting to give to her solicitor.

JG, and I think BB also, eventually met with the school and said they were concerned that the school had information about BB's conviction and were treating them differently from other parents. They came in with press cuttings about their case and said the school should Google them.

In June I think there was further concern raised about absence. JG phoned to say Ellie had tripped up a step and banged her head on the ground.

In July Ellie missed the last day of term and parents didn't contact the school. Schoo contacted JG and she said she thought they had broken up for Summer hols the previous week and they were on their way to a family holiday she had booked.

In the September Ellie missed the first 6 or 7 days of the new term. No explanation given by parents. Also younger sister had been booked in to start in the nursery class and she wasn't taken either. Head didn't think it was because of a family holiday because they had already taken their holiday in July.

Then in the first week of October, the month that Ellie died, she missed 9 days of school. JG phoned them to say the whole family had flu. When Ellie returned to school concerns were raised by staff about her appearance. She had a mark around her eye, yellow/brown, and a mark on her forehead and a plaster above her eyebrow. Three different staff members questioned her separately about how she had got the injuries and she told them that she had tripped over the puppy. They were satisfied that it was the truth. Ellie was happy and drawing a picture while staff were talking to her.

There was some disagreement with the parents about a doctor's medical note that she had been required to give the school. They said it had been put in Ellie's bag but when the teachers searched her bag it wasn't there. Parents said it was because JG had taken it back out of the bag when Ellie came home from school. Head asked them to send it in again the following day. JG was really angry with them on the phone and said they were being victimised.

Next day head saw BB waiting outside the office with Ellie and he came out to speak to him, Ellie went into class, BB was with Izzy. Head took BB through the security doors into a corridor to sit and speak with him about the sick note. BB's manner was "very aggressive, confrontational and he spoke in a very loud voice/shouted". Head was concerned about children in classrooms down the corridor hearing him and about Izzy also being present while he was behaving in this manner, so he stood up to end the meeting, opened the security door and asked BB to leave. He left.

I think Ellie's attendance for that short half term was something like 13%.

BB's barrister asked if he had any reason to think that Ellie was not happy or comfortable when he had seen her with her father. He said he hadn't seen her with her father (apart from that day outside the office) he had only seen him standing in the playground by the bike sheds with the puppy, waiting for Ellie. But he hadn't any reason to think she wasn't a happy child. Barrister also pointed out that there was no legal requirement for Izzy to attend nursery at that age, her attendance sessions added up to just 3 days by the time Ellie died.

JG's barrister asked about the return from the 9 day absence with plaster on her head at the beginning of October, if Ellie appeared to be in any pain. He said he hadn't been given any reason to think she was in pain. I think that must be when they suspect the broken shoulder occurred, and will be trying to show that JG wasn't aware Ellie was in pain.

Think that's about it. Oh yes, one more thing - JG sent them an angry email after the incident with BB/head, listing points she wanted the school to address, but it never happened because of Ellie's death. I think one of the points on the list was the surname she wanted them to use and another mentioned the grandparents and access with Ellie, but I didn't catch the context of that.
Thank you Tortoise. Very informative and enlightening.
Now given the schools records of Ellie's high percentage of missed school days.

I WOULD BE SCREAMING WITH LIGHTS BELLS AND WHISTLES GOING OFF!!!!!

Oh my sweet Ellie. Sweet sweet girl. The system failed you. As it has a few other lil Angel's who've grown their wings.

Given the historical case of Ellie. The school should be linked to LEA (local education authority) and Social Services thru Ellie's case worker.

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http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-19935690



Didn't know she was burnt as a baby as well :(



I bet the judge feels absolutely awful now



This just makes me feel sick
Blimey... but really. Burns from a radiator. In a 6 week's old baby.. shouldn't be placed anywhere so near a radiator!
It's not like the baby rolled or slipped there intentionally.
That's gross negligence on the parents behalf....

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Well guys I'm off back to bed. 2nd attempt lol. Tc stay safe wherever you are. Ttfn

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Just another note: he was exonerated by the family court before Ellie was returned home so there would have been little to no follow up from social services after she had been reintegrated into the family.

Does anyone who has been in court know how long the trial is expected to last?

Thanks for this but I am confused now.

He was exonerated previously but he didn't automatically get the kids back - hestill had to "fight" to get the kids back so SS were still involved despite the judge quashing.
( Family court case link I posted on page 3 or 4?) After that case SS withdrew allegations on child 2 and g'parents agreed to let Ellie go back.

Edited to add - it's OK I have now seen Tortoise's later post and can see that SS were still involved with monitoring , as suspected.
 
Thank you Tortoise for your brilliantly detailed feedback on the trial again.

so in line with what we had speculated previously :
- truculence with school staff over attendance issues
- JG is not mild & meek- "furious" / anger ( not always the victim, here she is on the attack with the school and as far as threatening her solicitor - attack best form of defence)
- Ellie expected to lie and cover-up to outsider adults ( am surprised that Ellie could do it so convincingly tho)
- both playing the victim card
- JG playing the "wasn't aware that Ellie was in pain"
- expectation that the grandparents were not on the best of terms with JG and BB

not expected:
- "Google us" oh my!!! I already had the feeling that they loved the 2012 publicity but actually taking in their own press cuttings!
- being asked to leave the premises by the headmaster shows he couldn't control it when he had to
- just how bad Ellie's attendance record was


I am expecting to hear that the tchng staff were in contact with SS updating them re. her attendance record but maybe they did not contact them over the "falling over puppy"injuries incident simply because they both believed and due to having to tread carefully with this family.

And on the previous issue we discussed in posts - the not taking her to hospital re. broken shoulder - they could actually have done that if they cared enough, because they knew they could rely on Ellie to lie & cover-up for them , as she had done despite persistent questioning by the school teachers.

I am looking forward to hearing what her GP has to say and details on the giving sick notes when a child is not present at the appointment. Am wondering if this pair "shopped around" for unfamiliiar doctors to fool? eg walk -in surgeries. ( Clearly the hospital staff followed procedure and contacted social services on at least one occasion. ) I expect that Social S had to also tread a careful route with this un-cooperative & probably litigious pair but still, it's hardly a new challenge for social services.

Anyway, I am imagining BB wants Ellie in school as he would rather not have her at home daytime, yet precisely because of the abuse she is rarely in school, so she gets more punishment for being stuck at home.

Meanwhile he is too precious to work. ( He doesn't have a skill like JG, quote from previously. ) It's a joke. In Greater London he could have easily found "unskilled" work had he really resented being a "house-husband."( By 2012 he no longer has the excuse of spending his days researching SBS or fighting courts & social services but JG was happy with him being at home neglecting a sick child & then beating up her child! ) I don't believe he actually does "resent being a house-husband" as we have heard, it's just another ploy and "poor me" grievance from him that he can throw back at her.
 
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tion-was-quashed-faces-new-access-battle.html

This report from 2010 says that JG was BB "then-partner" suggesting that they split up for a while

(I'm searching the google archives pre October 2013, so may be a few posts of 'old' news coming up)

ETA: It says that he had no prior convictions too, so I think the rumour from the comments section may be just a rumour

Thanks for clearing this up - I had read that before but didn't remember and then much later saw the " gossip/rumour" comment.
No previous.
Bet there are a few ex-girlfriends who could testify he is abusive.
 
this is interesting as it also mentions JG's blood being found in the home

BUTLER: TRAIL OF BLOOD FROM GIRL 'MURDERED' BY HER FATHER

SUTTON The bloodstains of a six year old girl were found throughout her home after she was murdered by her father, a court heard Little Ellie's pillow was found stained with her blood after she was allegedly battered to death by frustrated house husband Ben Butler, 36, at their Sutton home. Blood on a sofa cushion in the living room was also found to match her DNA profile after she suffered catastrophic head injuries similar to those caused by a high-speed car crash on 28 October 2013, the Old Bailey has heard.

The girl's mother Jennie Gray, 36, left a trail of her own blood spatters along the walls of the hallway outside Ellie's bedroom to upstairs bathroom Today (Thurs) forensic scientist Andrew Bell told jurors that the blood patterns appeared to be 'recent' and could have been caused by an 'impact' to Gray. 'Wet dilute blood from Ellie Butler had been deposited onto the pillow,' said Mr Bell. 'In my opinion a bleeding Jennie Gray or an object wet with her blood had dripped blood onto the floor of Ellie Butler's bedroom and that drip-blood trail continued along the hallway into the bathroom.[/QUOTE]

- See more at: http://www.courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/#sthash.ax6bTNxB.dpuf
 
I hope the book gets thrown at this pair.

Thanks for the updates from the court Tortoise. With hindsight, it's easy to wonder why the school didn't do anything, but I suppose with the excuses/doctor's notes coupled with the two angry parents, it was a difficult position to be in. The 'google us' comment is shocking though!
 
this is interesting as it also mentions JG's blood being found in the home


- See more at: http://www.courtnewsuk.co.uk/newsgallery/#sthash.ax6bTNxB.dpuf

Oh my. I wonder if that explains why they put a wash on before calling the ambulance. Blood on cushion in living room - there could be many theories for that - wonder if they moved her there to make it look like they had carried her to lay her somewhere comfortable, but then decided they needed more time and to only just have discovered her some while after the 'accident', so moved her back to her room. Or, they didn't want blood evidence in her room (from Ellie or JG) or missing bedding in wash to be seen by paramedics. Blood on pillow, not necessarily pillow case, dilute - had they tried to wet sponge it off maybe?

Ellie may have originally been injured in the living room and then moved to bedroom to hide her from Izzy and put her in a place where they wouldn't have seen her have the 'accident.'

Wonder why JG was bleeding on floor of Ellie's room. No one's mentioned if she had visible injuries when paramedics attended or was at the hospital. I'm curious about what they did with Izzy while all this was going on in the house.
 
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