'UK - Epsom college head Emma Pattinson, 45, found dead on campus along with husband George, 39, and daughter, Lettie, 7 - 6 Feb 2023

[RickshawFan]

Damn, just hearing about this case now. I wonder if she spoke about any relationship problems with anyone or even the reason as to why she called the relative the night before? I guess it'll be revealed if so. Such a sad situation though for everyone involved.

I really think "pressure cooker" context is key here, and would explain why EP didn't call police straight away. Having a headteacher call LE, when she has a new,, high profile (for an educator) leadership job, and if she has ambitions of moving up, might be VERY tricky.

I wonder how difficult it was to get this job? Were the school governors all on board? I'm wondering whether there were headwinds on the job or the selection process that would create unbearable stresses and add to an already volatile mix.

I also want to point out that LE sensibly hasn't run to the assumption that domestic violence means a woman was victim. They haven't ruled out any dynamic; to my mind, this would include a scenario where a partner became scared for his/her life after being attacked and went for the gun.

 

[RickshawFan]

That's also the front page, not the article! The link gremlins are on the loose.

I tested both links....they go to the article. At any rate, the Guardian article is on the US online version, front page.

 

[iamshadow21]

I tested both links....they go to the article. At any rate, the Guardian article is on the US online version, front page.

I'm getting the front page of Guardian US, which is about the earthquake in Syria and Turkey. A link should go to the exact article if possible, because the front pages change constantly as new articles are published and new big news breaks.

 

[RickshawFan]

I wonder why she called a relative and not the police? Not judging in any way, just curious.

It would have been professional suicide to call the police?

 

[RickshawFan]

I'm getting the front page of Guardian US, which is about the earthquake in Syria and Turkey. A link should go to the exact article if possible, because the front pages change constantly as new articles are published and new big news breaks.

I agree, and that's why I reposted the links (including the one @Teeniesmum posted) that go directly to the articles. I tested them.

Try this:

Epsom College deaths being treated as homicide investigation, say police

Detectives recover firearm and are said to suspect husband killed headteacher Emma Pattison and their daughter

www.theguardian.com

It's on the Guardian front page, right side, leading stories. The Syria/Turkey news is on the left column.

 

[iamshadow21]

I agree, and that's why I reposted links that go directly to the article. I tested them.

Try this:

Epsom College deaths being treated as homicide investigation, say police

Detectives recover firearm and are said to suspect husband killed headteacher Emma Pattison and their daughter

www.theguardian.com

This one works. The other one didn't. I don't know why. Gremlins! Thank you.

 

[19thcenturynovel]

It would have been professional suicide to call the police?

That thought occurred to me too. If he was losing the plot, she may have called someone like his father to try and de-escalate the situation. As it was a Saturday evening, maybe alcohol was a factor too but I think if she truly believed her daughter was in real danger she would have called the Police. A neighbour seems to have dialled 999 straightaway after hearing gunshots which makes me wonder if there was shouting/commotion before that.

 

[RickshawFan]

Maybe it was a relative of her husband and she thought they could calm him down? sadly she may felt embarassed having to call the police to the school, certainly as a new headmistress she could have been thinking of the scene it could have caused and harmed her professional image and that of the school, surmising of course and all to no avail now

That's a thought!

EP might also be overwrought herself, feeling impulsive, and concerned about what she might do. Calling a relation for help in calming down would be a very sensible thing to do in that situation. Recall the assault report to the police filed a few years ago was placed by the husband, not EP.

It doesn't sound as though the relation called the police until after going to the house and finding bodies? That's perplexing, too, if EP was reporting violence.

 

[WingsOverTX]

Or these psychotic periods that trigger murder-suicide are so strong nothing else matters. Like tunnel vision.

How do we know psychosis was involved? You don't have to be out of touch with reality to commit a murder suicide.

Tunnel vision is not the same thing.
JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

That thought occurred to me too. If he was losing the plot, she may have called someone like his father to try and de-escalate the situation. As it was a Saturday evening, maybe alcohol was a factor too but I think if she truly believed her daughter was in real danger she would have called the Police. A neighbour seems to have dialled 999 straightaway after hearing gunshots which makes me wonder if there was shouting/commotion before that.

A neighbor might have thought a kid had broken into the gun range, too. Evidently, the gun range was next to the headteacher's house.
At any rate, the sound of gunfire in the UK would likely be VERY obvious and jump out at someone. Unfortunately, in the US, guns are so ubiquitous, and shots so frequent, no one might have given it a second thought. Good on the neighbor for calling 999.

 

[RickshawFan]

Or these psychotic periods that trigger murder-suicide are so strong nothing else matters. Like tunnel vision.

We have no indication from LE that psychosis is involved AFAIK, and murder-suicide isn't necessarily a product of psychosis. E.g. we're unfortunately seeing many cases right now where one partner has severe Alzheimer's, the other partner kills him/her, and follows up with suicide. That's not being psychotic: that's being overwhelmed, sad, terrified, desperate, and distraught from what's happening to a loved one.

 

[ScalableHeights]

Quote RSBM.
If someone decides to take their own life and then that taking the life of their family is "kinder," that's pure narcissism, the opposite of love. It's the ultimate control.

And even if they try to tell themselves it's "love," they do know it's wrong, because they don't tell anyone of their plan. They do it sneakily and often violently.

I think it's more about not wanting their family to eventually be happy without them and to not let anyone else have them.

I'm not cutting them any slack - unless we're talking about true insanity.
JMO.

Fair point.

 

[ecology1]

I wonder how difficult it was to get this job? Were the school governors all on board? I'm wondering whether there were headwinds on the job or the selection process that would create unbearable stresses and add to an already volatile mix.

I'm pretty sure a well-regarded public school like this will have attracted a pool of very good candidates. I'd also think it would have a well-established recruitment process and will have looked at a whole host of things to ensure the successful candidate was the right person for such an important role.

She had previously and by the look of it very successfully led another private school (and during the covid years which itself brought a whole host of extra challenges), as well as holding previous posts as deputy head and head of department in other leading independent schools, so I'm sure she will have demonstrated she had the right proven skills to lead a school like this.

Croydon High School where she was previously head is a day school but I'd be interested to know if she lived on site at any of her other previous schools, or if this this new job was the first time she had moved into a property on a school site.

 

[SurreySleuthy]

I'm pretty sure a well-regarded public school like this will have attracted a pool of very good candidates. I'd also think it would have a well-established recruitment progress and will have looked at a whole host of things to ensure the successful candidate was the right person for such an important role.

She had previously and by the look of it very successfully led another private school (and during the covid years which itself brought a whole host of extra challenges), as well as holding previous posts as deputy head and head of department in other leading independent schools, so I'm sure she will have demonstrated she had the right proven skills to lead a school like this.

Croydon High School where she was previously head is a day school but I'd be interested to know if she lived on site at any of her other previous schools, or if this this new job was the first time she had moved into a property on a school site.

I was actually surprised when I read that her daughter still went to Croydon High, where she previously taught. I mean surprise that they moved to the house at EC. It's a long journey between Epsom College and Croydon High - 45 minute drive without traffic so I could see it easily taking an hour in the morning rush hour. Perhaps it made financial sense to move to EC even if not the most practical.

 

[ecology1]

I was actually surprised when I read that her daughter still went to Croydon High, where she previously taught. I mean surprise that they moved to the house at EC. It's a long journey between Epsom College and Croydon High - 45 minute drive without traffic so I could see it easily taking an hour in the morning rush hour. Perhaps it made financial sense to move to EC even if not the most practical.

I think that being head, I would've assumed that living at the school was just part of the role and moving into the designated headteacher's house was expected, or at least living very near to the school.

At the boarding school I worked it - one with a fairly large number of children who boarded and it effectively being a 24/7 operation - it would've felt strange if the head was not living on the school site or close by in the area. I don't think it would've looked good to the parents either.

 

[RickshawFan]

I was actually surprised when I read that her daughter still went to Croydon High, where she previously taught. I mean surprise that they moved to the house at EC. It's a long journey between Epsom College and Croydon High - 45 minute drive without traffic so I could see it easily taking an hour in the morning rush hour. Perhaps it made financial sense to move to EC even if not the most practical.

I realize it's sometimes hard to tell on UK maps how long it will actually take to drive somewhere, but Croydon High is due east of Epsom, and doesn't look to be as far as 45 minutes. However, I do speculate that all these small contextual details are factors in this case: IMO there's something very particular about the circumstances.





Oooh...I'm looking at "directions", and the fastest Google method is 38 minutes one way. And there's no train, correct, because the rail lines radiate from London and don't go horizontal?

 

[19thcenturynovel]

I feel very sorry for the close relative who came upon this scene. This person now has to live with the 'if onlys' on top of the grief and may not have involved the Police on the night against his/her better judgment.

 

[Kemug]

I was actually surprised when I read that her daughter still went to Croydon High, where she previously taught. I mean surprise that they moved to the house at EC. It's a long journey between Epsom College and Croydon High - 45 minute drive without traffic so I could see it easily taking an hour in the morning rush hour. Perhaps it made financial sense to move to EC even if not the most practical.

The daughter Lettie was only 7, so wouldn't have been attending a high school.

 

[lalalemon]

I thought EP said in the podcast she did with Epsom students that Lettie had also started a new school?

 

[lalalemon]

The daughter Lettie was only 7, so wouldn't have been attending a high school.

It's a private school, it has both secondary and prep departments... prep is the same as primary school.