'UK - Epsom college head Emma Pattinson, 45, found dead on campus along with husband George, 39, and daughter, Lettie, 7 - 6 Feb 2023

[ecology1]

It's a private school, it has both secondary and prep departments... prep is the same as primary school.

As far as I'm aware EC doesn't have a prep school, it's an 11-18 school. Not all private secondary schools have a prep/junior school. There will be prep schools in the area that have close links to EC and historically acted as feeder schools.

 

[SurreySleuthy]

I realize it's sometimes hard to tell on UK maps how long it will actually take to drive somewhere, but Croydon High is due east of Epsom, and doesn't look to be as far as 45 minutes. However, I do speculate that all these small contextual details are factors in this case: IMO there's something very particular about the circumstances.



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Oooh...I'm looking at "directions", and the fastest Google method is 38 minutes one way. And there's no train, correct, because the rail lines radiate from London and don't go horizontal?

I literally live here! I know first hand how long it takes.

 

[lalalemon]

As far as I'm aware EC doesn't have a prep school, it's an 11-18 school. Not all private secondary schools have a prep/junior school. There will be prep schools in the area that have close links to EC and historically acted as feeder schools.

I referring to the previous poster who said Lettie couldn't have gone to Croydon High School. Epsom is only high school age. But I'm sure i've seen that EP said that Lettie had also started a new school.

 

[ecology1]

I referring to the previous poster who said Lettie couldn't have gone to Croydon High School. Epsom is only high school age. But I'm sure i've seen that EP said that Lettie had also started a new school.

Sorry, understand you now.

If EC had it's own prep/junior school I think it's likely she would've transferred over.

However given the differences in location, I think she may have transferred to one of the prep schools near EC.

 

[SurreySleuthy]

I referring to the previous poster who said Lettie couldn't have gone to Croydon High School. Epsom is only high school age. But I'm sure i've seen that EP said that Lettie had also started a new school.

Croydon High posted that she was a pupil at the junior school so I assumed currently, but actually I think you're right and that could have just been previously a pupil there.

 

[SurreySleuthy]

Sorry, understand you now.

If EC had it's own prep/junior school I think it's likely she would've transferred over.

EC doesn't. It's 11-18.

 

[ecology1]

I know, I meant hypothetically if they did.

 

[Cedars]

Maybe it was a relative of her husband and she thought they could calm him down? sadly she may felt embarassed having to call the police to the school, certainly as a new headmistress she could have been thinking of the scene it could have caused and harmed her professional image and that of the school, surmising of course and all to no avail now

I agree, she wanted to solve the problem herself: it's the nature of marriage, and what you have to do to keep a marriage going.

I listened briefly to a talk by a man who wrote a book 'Why do they kill...men who murder intimate partners'. He said the real subtitle should be 'Jealous Drunks with Guns'.

Personally, I hope my response to a jealous drunk with a gun in my home would be the same as if I had an out-control fire: grab my child and leave. But then, I'm not married...

JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

George Pattison had not been previously reported to the police, sources reportedly told The Times.

However, in 2016 he reported his wife to Surrey police for allegedly striking him, the newspaper claimed.

She was spoken to by officers but her husband quickly withdrew the complaint, saying it was trivial.

Source:

Police 'probe if Epsom head was killed by husband in murder-suicide'

Emergency services were reportedly alerted by a member of staff who had heard gunshots at the £42,000-a-year independent school in Surrey at around 1am.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This event would have been soon after the child was born.

 

[RickshawFan]

I wonder if Epsom School was meant to be a fresh start for Emma and Lettie alone, but they reconciled, so suddenly it was all three of them there instead. Might explain the job thing with him, if he quit and found a job closer to the school.

MOO

Well, that’s an interesting thought. It would explain alot, like her strange statement in the student podcast, exactly, about him getting a new job “that wasn’t supposed to happen”.

 

[RickshawFan]

I agree, she wanted to solve the problem herself: it's the nature of marriage, and what you have to do to keep a marriage going.

I listened briefly to a talk by a man who wrote a book 'Why do they kill...men who murder intimate partners'. He said the real subtitle should be 'Jealous Drunks with Guns'.

Personally, I hope my response to a jealous drunk with a gun in my home would be the same as if I had an out-control fire: grab my child and leave. But then, I'm not married...

JMO

I think we have to be careful not to point the finger at a perpetrator nor assume that men are always the aggressors in domestic violence. LE hasn’t presented a scenario: they haven’t even made clear which of the 3 killed themselves; we only know 3 are dead.

IMO it’s in the nature of ambition, résumé protection, embarrassment, vulnerability, fear about consequences, and keeping up appearances that a person these days might not call the cops, not the nature of marriage.

 

[RickshawFan]

The daughter Lettie was only 7, so wouldn't have been attending a high school.

I was confused, too. It turns out, Croydon High has a “high school”, but isn’t a high school. It’s age 3+.

The “high” might be some other kind of “high”, like “on the heights” (i.e. overlooking a town) or maybe “the Croydon school that is on High Street”.

Is it even in Croydon?

 

[RickshawFan]

It's a private school, it has both secondary and prep departments... prep is the same as primary school.

Prep school would be eight-ish and up. Croydon High has a primary school and, it sounds like, a nursery. Where I went, the school has a junior school (4+), a nursery, and a senior school. My school doesn’t call any of them “prep school” (that term was pretty much used only at boys schools when I was young).

 

[Cedars]

I think we have to be careful not to point the finger at a perpetrator nor assume that men are always the aggressors in domestic violence. LE hasn’t presented a scenario: they haven’t even made clear which of the 3 killed themselves; we only know 3 are dead.

Epsom College head called relative before she was shot by husband

Police recover a firearm owned by George Pattison who officers believe killed his wife and daughter.

www.bbc.com

 

[RickshawFan]

I literally live here! I know first hand how long it takes.

Yes, I can see that! I didn’t mean to offend! But I’m totally entitled to be skeptical. Plus I led off with the observation that in my experience driving from Place A to Place B in England looks to be much quicker than it actually is, so it would be easy for a non-local such as myself to get this wrong. In England, it takes me all day to drive 200 miles on the motorway, even if my rental car says I’m driving 80 mph.

 

[Officer Dibble]

I wonder if she wanted to leave him?

RIP Emma & Lettie

I have to admit I wondered that. MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

That thought occurred to me too. If he was losing the plot, she may have called someone like his father to try and de-escalate the situation. As it was a Saturday evening, maybe alcohol was a factor too but I think if she truly believed her daughter was in real danger she would have called the Police. A neighbour seems to have dialled 999 straightaway after hearing gunshots which makes me wonder if there was shouting/commotion before that.

and perhaps a scream. JMO

 

[Officer Dibble]

I wonder if a suicide note was left? MOO.

 

[Officer Dibble]

A neighbor might have thought a kid had broken into the gun range, too. Evidently, the gun range was next to the headteacher's house.
At any rate, the sound of gunfire in the UK would likely be VERY obvious and jump out at someone. Unfortunately, in the US, guns are so ubiquitous, and shots so frequent, no one might have given it a second thought. Good on the neighbor for calling 999.

When my neighbour fired gun shots the sound ricocheted off all the neighbours houses - it was extremely loud.

 

[Caroclaud]

Lettie went to a very nice private school about 5 miles away in the Oxshott area, I won’t name it. So a new school for her.

It’s possible that EP did not assault her husband in 2016, but that he made the whole thing up “I’ll teach you”? Moo.

Seems like from the BBC news report that the police have referred them selves to the IOPC, I wonder if it’s because LE called to the house 4 day’s previously to update/ renew the address on GPs gun licence (which should have been done last Sep) and they failed to notify the school there was a gun on-site? Didn’t think it was inappropriate? Didn’t think to mention? Times article mentions the EP called them police the week before about the gun, maybe a wow, better keep the paperwork up to date type thing. So SHE should have made the school aware at the very least that it was onsite?

Wonder if the school vetted him at all, surely a gun licence plus boarding school doesn’t make a good combo?