'UK - Epsom college head Emma Pattinson, 45, found dead on campus along with husband George, 39, and daughter, Lettie, 7 - 6 Feb 2023

[Andieinsyd]

Sadly women and children are at highest risk from controlling and/or abusive partners when they are about to, or have just left said partner. I wonder if that is what happened here - the ready access to a weapon made killing in anger easy.
MOO

 

[Officer Dibble]

If he was, as mentioned above, a late permanent living there situation to the new household at the school, coming from a 1.5 million pound home, would the school house/apartment have been less palatial? JMO MOO. Edited to add: Would that cause tension in some people?

 

[MadeleineMaxwell]

I've been considering the 2016 incident. She would have been pregnant or have a newborn. Statistics show that domestic abuse begins or increases around this time. My theory is that he called the police on her to show how easily he could destroy her life if she didn't toe the line. She would need a clear DBS to continue in her work and he had a very effective tool to wield. JMO

 

[Maxo]

I've been considering the 2016 incident. She would have been pregnant or have a newborn. Statistics show that domestic abuse begins or increases around this time. My theory is that he called the police on her to show how easily he could destroy her life if she didn't toe the line. She would need a clear DBS to continue in her work and he had a very effective tool to wield. JMO

Highly subjective - there are only 2 people who are privy to any mutual abuse in that relationship and they are now both dead.

I'm more concerned if she had to/did disclose those allegations when she applied for her positions. If not, why not.

JMO

 

[ChatteringBirds]

Highly subjective - there are only 2 people who are privy to any mutual abuse in that relationship and they are now both dead.

I'm more concerned if she had to/did disclose those allegations when she applied for her positions. If not, why not.

JMO

No one was brought in for questioning, arrested, charged... so why would she need to disclose that her husband once called the police with a claim??

What is not subjective - 1 person murdered two others, including a child, and that person wasn't her.
All IMO.

 

[MadeleineMaxwell]

Highly subjective - there are only 2 people who are privy to any mutual abuse in that relationship and they are now both dead.

I'm more concerned if she had to/did disclose those allegations when she applied for her positions. If not, why not.

JMO

That's why I said it was JMO. I have years of experience supporting women who are living with DA, I've experienced it myself. The DARVO play is a very common tactic. I'm not saying that IS what happened here, just that it struck me that it could be. Family annihilation usually follows domestic abuse.

 

[RickshawFan]

If he was, as mentioned above, a late permanent living there situation to the new household at the school, coming from a 1.5 million pound home, would the school house/apartment have been less palatial? JMO MOO. Edited to add: Would that cause tension in some people?

I was wondering about this, too. But then, I also wondered whether the cost of real estate has escalated so high, 1.5 millions pounds gets you a hovel.

The campus home doesn't look to me like anything special, and for me it would be oppressive to be surrounded by those taller school buildings, crammed in like an afterthought (during the 1970's?). If it were me, I'd feel like someone was always looking over my shoulder. But it's possible it's very comfortable on the inside.

This matters not for this case, but the way the headteacher's house is not lined up with the street or the other buildings would drive me CRAZY. The whole school is angular from the air, and then there's this house that's catawampus.

 

[RickshawFan]

I've been considering the 2016 incident. She would have been pregnant or have a newborn. Statistics show that domestic abuse begins or increases around this time. My theory is that he called the police on her to show how easily he could destroy her life if she didn't toe the line. She would need a clear DBS to continue in her work and he had a very effective tool to wield. JMO

Can you explain what a DBS is? I'm not familiar with that...

 

[MadeleineMaxwell]

Disclosure and Barring Service. Basically a police check for anyone working with children or vulnerable adults

 

[ecology1]

No one was brought in for questioning, arrested, charged... so why would she need to disclose that her husband once called the police with a claim??

From the Mail article:
Surrey Police did take the matter seriously and the Mail understands Mrs Pattison was interviewed under caution with a solicitor present.

Epsom head 'made distressed call to sister before she was shot dead'

Mr Pattison shot dead his wife and their child before turning the gun on himself in their grace and favour home on the school grounds in the early hours of Sunday, police believe.

www.dailymail.co.uk

Can you explain what a DBS is? I'm not familiar with that...

Disclosure and Barring Service - essentially a police records check. For positions where you'd be working around vulnerable people like children you'd require an enhanced DBS check which is the highest level available. Having a criminal conviction doesn't automatically bar you form working in those type of jobs, it would be taken into consideration by your employer. The check may also contain non-conviction information supplied by relevant police forces, it would be up to the police whether that information was recorded at the time.

 

[RickshawFan]

Disclosure and Barring Service. Basically a police check for anyone working with children or vulnerable adults

Oh, ok, so this would come up in a background check? Or do all adults working with kids have to present a certificate as part of their dossier? Or at licensing?

 

[RickshawFan]

From the Mail article:
Surrey Police did take the matter seriously and the Mail understands Mrs Pattison was interviewed under caution with a solicitor present.

Snipped for focus.

IMO It's possible after having had this experience (which it's likely she wouldn't want to repeat), EP would be super reluctant to call the cops. I'd sure not want to bring that kind of interview on myself if I'd experienced it once, even if I wasn't the perpetrator of the event. LE interviews, especially after having been read your rights, would be super scary; I'd not want to have the possibility of a repeat. Heck, even getting pulled over by the cops for a missing tail light is super traumatic for me.

 

[ecology1]

If he was, as mentioned above, a late permanent living there situation to the new household at the school, coming from a 1.5 million pound home, would the school house/apartment have been less palatial? JMO MOO. Edited to add: Would that cause tension in some people?

Well looking at the photographs from above it hardly looks like a tiny house, especially as it's just the three of them living there. I'm sure it would've been a very comfortable place to live.

At the boarding school I worked at, the head teacher's house on the school grounds wasn't just for him and his family to live, it was also used for school-related and social events, and the downstairs is likely to be spacious to accommodate that. I remember the headmaster and his wife hosting afternoon teas or dinners for groups of students quite often, and I guess it was just one reason why he knew the students well. There were also some events where parents and/or staff were invited too. I'm sure head of these sorts of schools will be hosting all sorts of people throughout the year in their home, so the school of course will want to ensure it is well decorated and furnished.

As a separate point, I did wonder if the next/future heads of EC would want to live in this particular property knowing what has happened in there recently. I did wonder if the school will even end up bulldozing it and building a new property somewhere else on the grounds, given the existing one will always now be associated with such an horrific event.

 

[Officer Dibble]

Well looking at the photographs from above it hardly looks like a tiny house, especially as it's just the three of them living there. I'm sure it would've been a very comfortable place to live.

At the boarding school I worked at, the head teacher's house on the school grounds wasn't just for him and his family to live, it was also used for school-related and social events, and the downstairs is likely to be spacious to accommodate that. I remember the headmaster and his wife hosting afternoon teas or dinners for groups of students quite often, and I guess it was just one reason why he knew the students well. There were also some events where parents and/or staff were invited too. I'm sure head of these sorts of schools will be hosting all sorts of people throughout the year in their home, so the school of course will want to ensure it is well decorated and furnished.

As a separate point, I did wonder if the next/future heads of EC would want to live in this particular property knowing what has happened in there recently. I did wonder if the school will even end up bulldozing it and building a new property somewhere else on the grounds, given the existing one will always now be associated with such an horrific event.

ewww yes i wouldnt want to live there if it was me. Good point. I just meant the property might not be very swish looking from the outside compared to a private 1.5 million house. JMO

 

[RickshawFan]

Well looking at the photographs from above it hardly looks like a tiny house, especially as it's just the three of them living there. I'm sure it would've been a very comfortable place to live.

At the boarding school I worked at, the head teacher's house on the school grounds wasn't just for him and his family to live, it was also used for school-related and social events, and the downstairs is likely to be spacious to accommodate that. I remember the headmaster and his wife hosting afternoon teas or dinners for groups of students quite often, and I guess it was just one reason why he knew the students well. There were also some events where parents and/or staff were invited too. I'm sure head of these sorts of schools will be hosting all sorts of people throughout the year in their home, so the school of course will want to ensure it is well decorated and furnished.

As a separate point, I did wonder if the next/future heads of EC would want to live in this particular property knowing what has happened in there recently. I did wonder if the school will even end up bulldozing it and building a new property somewhere else on the grounds, given the existing one will always now be associated with such an horrific event.

Good point about the need for space for social events. I had an ordained cousin who had a house by grace and favour of the CofE in Kent, and it seemed much nicer than this one at EC, alot more private, with well-tended gardens, high hedges, a nice gravel driveway, a labyrinth (!), public social spaces looking out into the garden, chapel on the first floor, etc. Anyway, that house is my point of comparison.

My boarding school headmistress never invited us to her house: she had us sit on the very plush carpet of her office. All 40 in my class would fit. I guess times have changed....

Yes, bad karma to recycle the EC house for any purpose. IMO they need to start from scratch to re-imagine what they want to use that space for (athletic activities like all the other buildings right there? storage for trac and field equipment?), as well as the needs of a modern-day headteacher.

 

[RickshawFan]

Sadly women and children are at highest risk from controlling and/or abusive partners when they are about to, or have just left said partner. I wonder if that is what happened here - the ready access to a weapon made killing in anger easy.
MOO

I haven't had this happen to women in my life, but I have had it happen to men close to me, where the woman was being abusive and tried to kill the guys. From the get-go, I've appreciated how LE in this case didn't cite statistical probability and jump to the assumption that the perpetrator was male. It seems they took their time.

It still seems as though they're not 100% in their assessment. Perhaps a crime scene layout with 3 bodies and the weapon in close proximity made for some ambiguity in who did what. They may have had to wait for testing (e.g. gun-fire residue on the hands) to help them decide.

 

[RickshawFan]

ewww yes i wouldnt want to live there if it was me. Good point. I just meant the property might not be very swish looking from the outside compared to a private 1.5 million house. JMO

Agreed: low swish factor. I am quite surprised how pedestrian it looks, actually: I expected super swish for headteacher at an expensive boarding school.

 

[overthemoon]

Being a head teacher at a top level independent school would put GP into a position of a second fiddle to his Missus on the grounds of the college. Kind of like the consort role played by the late Prince Philip.

If threat of DA existed prior to the move to EC, perhaps EP thought that staying on the premises of the college would protect herself and her daughter from GP’s open outburst. In the vein of, he wouldn’t dare try it here …..

Sadly, a tragic ending to her move.

Don’t think EC can convince the next appointed Head to move in there.

 

[ecology1]

Yes, bad karma to recycle the EC house for any purpose. IMO they need to start from scratch to re-imagine what they want to use that space for (athletic activities like all the other buildings right there? storage for trac and field equipment?), as well as the needs of a modern-day headteacher.

Well, it's JMO, but given what happened and the fact that such a event is going to have an impact on the school for a long time, I can imagine a scenario of them clearing the site and installing some sort of memorial, perhaps a memorial garden.

Agreed: low swish factor. I am quite surprised how pedestrian it looks, actually: I expected super swish for headteacher at an expensive boarding school.

Actually, I don't think I would expect the head teacher's residence at a school like this to be super extravagant, I'd expect it to be comfortable, with sufficient space and be well decorated and furnished. Given that other resident staff will be living in far smaller and less comfortable accommodation, as well as the boarding pupils, I don't think it would be a good look for the head to be living in very expensive looking housing. The school won't want the parents who are paying very considerable fees to think that's the sort of thing where a lot of money is going.

 

[MadeleineMaxwell]

Oh, ok, so this would come up in a background check? Or do all adults working with kids have to present a certificate as part of their dossier? Or at licensing?

Unlikely if there were no charges I think. Usually you have to apply/potential employer applies as part of the recruitment process so its up to date. It's possible to have an ongoing current DBS through the government update service.