'UK - Epsom college head Emma Pattinson, 45, found dead on campus along with husband George, 39, and daughter, Lettie, 7 - 6 Feb 2023

[Marysmith]

Having been the victim of emotional and verbal abuse the scenario is pretty clear and familiar. Same trajectory as Gaby Petito.

Emotional abusers are relentless and push the same buttons over and over you are trapped in circular arguments riddled with targeted cruel comments mined from information shared when the relationship was new and happy. For instance I have a terrible mother my ex ended every argument with “you are just like your mother”. If you try to escape an argument they scream that you are a crybaby that runs or that you can’t have an intelligent conversation and they sneer and laugh at your emotional anguish. I never slapped (reactive abuse) like Gaby and the head teacher but I can imagine it. He likely worked her into an emotional frenzy and claim she was the abuser before threatening her by calling the cops (likely saying she’d lose her daughter haha). My ex would rage inches from my face so I could feel the spit and taunt me to “hit him”. I never did but I self harmed twice to get him to stop. I picked up a metal bar and hit myself in the forehead splitting the skin; he laughed and said keep doing it. So I understand the slap.

The dinner party was probably a trigger. She likely couldn’t be persuaded not to take this job and he was resentful. Then something at dinner embarrassed him. This type is vengeful.,

Example my ex would be delightful at parties but I was always afraid to get in the car when leaving. Id have a great time and as soon as the doors closed, “why the *uck is the gas tank at a quarter filled!! This car needs to be at half always!!!” Or “why at dinner did you keep saying “my house” vs “our house” are you trying to rub it in that you bought the house to everyone!!!”. Etc etc. so I’d be screamed at all the way home from every party. They listen closely for perceived slights and are infuriated if you take a stand on anything or embarrass them (like Gaby P did getting him in trouble with the police- he’d never think it was his fault.

Abusers POV: You made me mad! And now look what happed to me!!!

Sad

Oh my gosh I’m so sorry for everything that you went through.
I feel this so hard because I experienced this too and fully believe that Emma did too.
I’m so glad you are out and hope you are okish now. <3

 

[VixenLeaf]

I noticed from the new Mail article:

"He phoned the police complaining she had slapped him during a domestic row. It is understood he regretted making the call and downplayed it as a trivial matter when officers arrived, claiming he didn’t realise what would happen.

Surrey Police did take the matter seriously and the Mail understands Mrs Pattison was interviewed under caution with a solicitor present. The case was dropped as her husband wouldn’t co-operate."

I wonder if she was asked about this during the recruitment process, and that everyone who made the appointment was aware of it, as I'm not sure whether this sort of information would be revealed on an enhanced DBS check?

Epsom head 'made distressed call to sister before she was shot dead'

Mr Pattison shot dead his wife and their child before turning the gun on himself in their grace and favour home on the school grounds in the early hours of Sunday, police believe.

www.dailymail.co.uk

No it wouldn’t be on a dbs check as she wasn’t charged

I noticed from the new Mail article:

"He phoned the police complaining she had slapped him during a domestic row. It is understood he regretted making the call and downplayed it as a trivial matter when officers arrived, claiming he didn’t realise what would happen.

Surrey Police did take the matter seriously and the Mail understands Mrs Pattison was interviewed under caution with a solicitor present. The case was dropped as her husband wouldn’t co-operate."

I wonder if she was asked about this during the recruitment process, and that everyone who made the appointment was aware of it, as I'm not sure whether this sort of information would be revealed on an enhanced DBS check?

Epsom head 'made distressed call to sister before she was shot dead'

Mr Pattison shot dead his wife and their child before turning the gun on himself in their grace and favour home on the school grounds in the early hours of Sunday, police believe.

www.dailymail.co.uk

no it wouldn’t show on a dbs check even an enhanced one. Only offences you are charged with are shown. Not those you are accused of / interviewed about.

 

[ecology1]

no it wouldn’t show on a dbs check even an enhanced one. Only offences you are charged with are shown. Not those you are accused of / interviewed about.

An enhanced DBS certificate could include information about any contact with the police that isn’t to do with convictions, cautions, reprimands or final warnings. For example, if the police were involved in taking you to a place of safety under Section 136 of the Mental Health Act. This would be because of concerns about your mental health. The police should only include this information on your certificate if they believe that it is relevant:

Criminal Record Checks

You may need to have a criminal record check if you are applying for certain jobs. These checks used to be done by the Criminal Record Bureau (CRB).

www.rethink.org

Each Police Force maintains a local record of information, which can be used to disclose information referred to on a disclosure in the ‘other relevant information’ section on an enhanced check. This is formally known as ‘approved information’. It is often more commonly referred to as ‘non-conviction information’ or ‘police intelligence’:

Disclosure of police intelligence on enhanced checks (approved information) - Unlock

Aim of this information Each Police Force maintains a local record of information, which can be used to disclose information referred to on a disclosure in the ‘other relevant information’ section on an enhanced check. This is formally known as ‘approved information’. It is often more commonly...

unlock.org.uk

Along with convictions and cautions, an enhanced disclosure check will look at “intelligence” and other information on the police database which could call into question someone’s suitability for a role working with children or vulnerable adults. This intelligence could include information about repeated arrests for crimes which never got to the charging stage, complaints from previous employers, or any other information which the police hold on their computer and think might be relevant:

The Role of the Police in DBS Checks

There are some circumstances in which a DBS check will be looked over by a police officer too.

clearcheck.co.uk

 

[Maxo]

An enhanced DBS certificate could include information about any contact with the police that isn’t to do with convictions, cautions, reprimands or final warnings. For example, if the police were involved in taking you to a place of safety under Section 136 of the Mental Health Act. This would be because of concerns about your mental health. The police should only include this information on your certificate if they believe that it is relevant:

Criminal Record Checks

You may need to have a criminal record check if you are applying for certain jobs. These checks used to be done by the Criminal Record Bureau (CRB).

www.rethink.org

Each Police Force maintains a local record of information, which can be used to disclose information referred to on a disclosure in the ‘other relevant information’ section on an enhanced check. This is formally known as ‘approved information’. It is often more commonly referred to as ‘non-conviction information’ or ‘police intelligence’:

Disclosure of police intelligence on enhanced checks (approved information) - Unlock

Aim of this information Each Police Force maintains a local record of information, which can be used to disclose information referred to on a disclosure in the ‘other relevant information’ section on an enhanced check. This is formally known as ‘approved information’. It is often more commonly...

unlock.org.uk

Along with convictions and cautions, an enhanced disclosure check will look at “intelligence” and other information on the police database which could call into question someone’s suitability for a role working with children or vulnerable adults. This intelligence could include information about repeated arrests for crimes which never got to the charging stage, complaints from previous employers, or any other information which the police hold on their computer and think might be relevant:

The Role of the Police in DBS Checks

There are some circumstances in which a DBS check will be looked over by a police officer too.

clearcheck.co.uk

Which begs the question, were Epsom College aware of this prior to the appointing of EP?

 

[MadeleineMaxwell]

Are they effing kidding with the headline? Her successful career caused her husband to kill her? Absolutely sickening

Tensions between Epsom head and husband who 'killed her and daughter'

News that something bad had happened at Epsom College spread last Sunday. One mother said: 'Nobody imagined it was going to be something as awful as this.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[RickshawFan]

Are they effing kidding with the headline? Her successful career caused her husband to kill her? Absolutely sickening

Tensions between Epsom head and husband who 'killed her and daughter'

News that something bad had happened at Epsom College spread last Sunday. One mother said: 'Nobody imagined it was going to be something as awful as this.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a guy killed his partner because he felt she was more successful or more well-liked or got more attention than she. Very common IMO.

 

[MadeleineMaxwell]

It certainly wouldn't be the first time a guy killed his partner because he felt she was more successful or more well-liked or got more attention than she. Very common IMO.

That sounds like victim blaming though. Men kill women because they can't control them.

 

[RickshawFan]

That sounds like victim blaming though. Men kill women because they can't control them.

I don't mean it to be victim-blaming at all: it's about men being uncomfortable, in fact, being so uncomfortable that they take it out on their significant others. In other words, it's about men's feelings, not women's success. AFAIK that's a common dynamic in male-perpetrated DV cases.

 

[Cedars]

Are they effing kidding with the headline? Her successful career caused her husband to kill her? Absolutely sickening

Tensions between Epsom head and husband who 'killed her and daughter'

News that something bad had happened at Epsom College spread last Sunday. One mother said: 'Nobody imagined it was going to be something as awful as this.'

www.dailymail.co.uk

There's virtually nothing in the article to support the headline, it's pure speculation, IMO meant to get people's hackle's up.

One could also write a headline: "Did an over-fondness for wine, a hobby involving guns, and a mental illness send an ordinary argument into an unthinkable tragedy?"

JMO

 

[Zella]

It's also the DM, a publication often noted for having poor taste and not always being very victim-friendly. MOO

 

[19thcenturynovel]

Not everyone likes to hear it but it needs to be said.

Why are we blaming the Epsom College headteacher for her own murder? | Jess Phillips

We have seen speculation that Emma Pattison’s achievements may have made her husband feel as if he was ‘living in her shadow’

www.independent.co.uk

 

[iamshadow21]

Not everyone likes to hear it but it needs to be said.

Why are we blaming the Epsom College headteacher for her own murder? | Jess Phillips

We have seen speculation that Emma Pattison’s achievements may have made her husband feel as if he was ‘living in her shadow’

www.independent.co.uk

Boom. Mike drop.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yeah, I understood what @RickshawFan meant by it, but thought it was a 'made up' word until I googled it. I've got a pretty big vocab, so it's always fun to learn a new one I haven't heard before!

If you are in the US.... you should listen to NPR on Saturday Morning. A show, A Way with Words, is a real hoot.

 

[iamshadow21]

If you are in the US.... you should listen to NPR on Saturday Morning. A show, A Way with Words, is a real hoot.

Couldn't be further from - I'm in Australia.

 

[RickshawFan]

If you are in the US.... you should listen to NPR on Saturday Morning. A show, A Way with Words, is a real hoot.

Yes, long term fan, along with My Word, and My Music. Apropos WS, we run into cases where fine points about English language matter, especially the language of LE. English has different shadows on it, depending where the speaker is from, and sometimes this takes some teasing out. There's layers of intention, and habit, and protocol, even when the same words are used (but word selection is often very different, too).

An example is where UK LE uses the word "casualty" to refer to a person, as in "The casualty has been loaded into the ambulance". In the US, LE is already sorting the wounded into "victims" and "suspects" by the time the ambulance arrives.

My new descriptor from this case is a "grace and favour house". In the US, it's called a perk. But the whole idea of a lovely "grace and favour" juxtaposed against a horrendous murder is mindblowing to me. "Perk" and "murder" is not nearly as jarring.

 

[SusanDonim]

Epsom college head and daughter died of shotgun wounds, inquest hears

Emma Pattison is believed to have been murdered by husband along with daughter Lettie, seven

www.theguardian.com

The headteacher of Epsom college and her seven-year-old daughter died of shotgun wounds, an inquest has heard.

Emma Pattison, 45, who is believed to have been murdered by her husband, George Pattison, died of shock, haemorrhage and shotgun wounds to the chest and abdomen, while their daughter Ellette Francesca, known as Lettie, died of a shotgun wound to the head, the inquest at Surrey coroner’s court was told.

 

[Luwin]

How anyone could shoot their child in the head (or anywhere) ill never understand. I pray she was asleep

 

[CSIDreamer]

Epsom college head and daughter died of shotgun wounds, inquest hears

Emma Pattison is believed to have been murdered by husband along with daughter Lettie, seven

www.theguardian.com

The headteacher of Epsom college and her seven-year-old daughter died of shotgun wounds, an inquest has heard.

Emma Pattison, 45, who is believed to have been murdered by her husband, George Pattison, died of shock, haemorrhage and shotgun wounds to the chest and abdomen, while their daughter Ellette Francesca, known as Lettie, died of a shotgun wound to the head, the inquest at Surrey coroner’s court was told.

A shotgun? That's just horrendous.

 

[infinit]

Epsom college head and daughter died of shotgun wounds, inquest hears

Emma Pattison is believed to have been murdered by husband along with daughter Lettie, seven

www.theguardian.com

The headteacher of Epsom college and her seven-year-old daughter died of shotgun wounds, an inquest has heard.

Emma Pattison, 45, who is believed to have been murdered by her husband, George Pattison, died of shock, haemorrhage and shotgun wounds to the chest and abdomen, while their daughter Ellette Francesca, known as Lettie, died of a shotgun wound to the head, the inquest at Surrey coroner’s court was told.

Sounds like Emma might not have been been instantly killed. Terrible. I hope the kid felt nothing.

 

[iamshadow21]

Sounds like Emma might not have been been instantly killed. Terrible. I hope the kid felt nothing.

Three shots, and presumably, another one for himself. That means he had to reload after Emma was killed, if she was first. That's a particularly cold kind of so-and-so to break the gun, take out the spent cartridges, reload, then go to your child's room.

I would hope that the child was first, and asleep, because shotguns are very loud. I don't know what the layout of the home is or where they were found in it, but I think it would be difficult for anyone to sleep through one, let alone two reports from a shotgun.

MOO