Found Deceased UK - Frankie Morris, 18, bike found Pentir Bangor, North Wales, 2 May 2021

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I’ve found something really strange.

One day ago, NWP Gwynedd North posted thirteen images of vehicles because they want to speak to the drivers: Log into Facebook

Most of these images are time-stamped in the top right corner. The times are between 12:32:45 and 13:19:09. All of these images are from the same static CCTV camera at the Vaynol Arms and in all of them you can see an empty pub-style dining table with attached benches. For some unknown reason, two are cropped so you can’t see the time stamp.

Four days ago, Frankie was last seen on a CCTV still from the same camera, walking right past the table. It was posted to the same page and cropped so you can’t see the time stamp, but the post says it was at 13.12pm: Facebook

Now, the pub is 0.2 miles from the bridge; about a 5 minute walk, and a 1 minute drive (but let’s consider up to 5 as it’s a single track road with limited passing places). So Frankie would have been between the pub and the bridge at 13.12-13.19pm, approximately, if walking normally.

  1. Why have the police only shown images of one car - the final image - with a timestamp that shows that it would have been on that stretch of road at the same time at Frankie? All the rest are earlier, by up to forty minutes.
  2. Why have two of the images had their timestamps cropped? The red car’s time isnt shown at all and the silver 4x4 with trailer only shows that it was after 1300hrs.
  3. Why is the red car not fully shown when the rest are all fully shown? Was it speeding and this was the stillest / clearest image?
  4. This is the big one. On the images of the cars, look at the table. You can clearly see the shadow creeping along the table and the bench as time passes, spreading out to the road. At 12.38pm it’s in the middle of the table and at 1.19pm it’s at the end. Now look back at the image of Frankie... There is no visible shadow on the table, even though there is on the bench and under his bicycle. From the position of the shadow on the bench, it seems that the image of Frankie was taken at around 12.30, not the reported 1.12pm. Why? Has the CCTV been altered? Have the police made a mistake? Can anyone else explain it?
 
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Mersault said:
I’ve found something really strange.

One day ago, NWP Gwynedd North posted thirteen images of vehicles because they want to speak to the drivers: Log into Facebook

Most of these images are time-stamped in the top right corner. The times are between 12:32:45 and 13:19:09. All of these images are from the same static CCTV camera at the Vaynol Arms and in all of them you can see an empty pub-style dining table with attached benches. For some unknown reason, two are cropped so you can’t see the time stamp.

Four days ago, Frankie was last seen on a CCTV still from the same camera, walking right past the table. It was posted to the same page and cropped so you can’t see the time stamp, but the post says it was at 1.12pm: Facebook

Now, the pub is 0.2 miles from the bridge; about a 5 minute walk, and a 1 minute drive (but let’s consider up to 5 as it’s a single track road with limited passing places). So Frankie would have been between the pub and the bridge at 1.12-1.19pm, approximately, if walking normally.

  1. Why have the police only shown images of one car - the final image - with a timestamp that shows that it would have been on that stretch of road at the same time at Frankie? All the rest are earlier, by up to forty minutes.
  2. Why have two of the images had their timestamps cropped? The red car’s time isnt shown at all and the silver 4x4 with trailer only shows that it was after 1300hrs.
  3. Why is the red car not fully shown when the rest are all fully shown? Was it speeding and this was the stillest / clearest image?
  4. This is the big one. On the images of the cars, look at the table. You can clearly see the shadow creeping along the table and the bench as time passes, spreading out to the road. At 12.38pm it’s in the middle of the table and at 1.19pm it’s at the end. Now look back at the image of Frankie... There is no visible shadow on the table, even though there is on the bench and under his bicycle. From the position of the shadow on the bench, it seems that the image of Frankie was taken at around 12.30, not the reported 1.12pm. Why? Has the CCTV been altered? Have the police made a mistake? Can anyone else explain it?
Click to expand...
I agree, it looks as if he was there at around 12:30 give or take 5 or 10 minutes. Perhaps the original time of 1:12pm given was incorrect, and that is why they are appealing for those motorists who were there at around the same time as Frankie, which is earlier than the originally stated time, to come forward. If the footage was viewed on a device not automatically updated for BST, the timing might have been out? I can't explain the wrong time otherwise.
 
On Saturday officers said they had arrested one man on suspicion of causing death by dangerous driving in connection with the search as well as a man and woman on suspicion of perverting the course of justice.

One person remains in police custody, while two others have been released under investigation, the force said.

North Wales Police today issued a further update saying they are "continuing searches" in the Pentir area for the 18-year-old, with the road from Pont Felin, Pentir heading towards Waen Wen remaining closed until further notice.

Police issue update on missing Frankie Morris as divers join search
 
Tortoise said:
I agree, it looks as if he was there at around 12:30 give or take 5 or 10 minutes. Perhaps the original time of 1:12pm given was incorrect, and that is why they are appealing for those motorists who were there at around the same time as Frankie, which is earlier than the originally stated time, to come forward. If the footage was viewed on a device not automatically updated for BST, the timing might have been out? I can't explain the wrong time otherwise.
Click to expand...

So you mean all the time-stamps shown on the car photos are an hour early as the CCTV is still set to GMT? That’d make sense; I think you’ve cracked it. Frankie was allegedly photographed at the party at around 11am and on CCTV in Brynrefail at 12.07, so passing The Vaynol Arms at 13.11 does make sense as it’s just over an hour’s walk from Brynrefail.

So Frankie would have got to the bridge around 13.19 (or if, as the police have also stated, he was at the pub at 13.22 then 13.29). The first pictured car, the silver VW, would have arrived at the bridge at 13.34, the blue Toyota Yaris at 13.39 (which must have turned around and headed back back the pub almost instantly, unless it passed another blue Toyota Yaris at the bridge), the dark grey car at 13.41 and then AO saw three young cyclists loitering on the bridge at 13.45 (presumably her car isn’t pictured as she’d already spoken to the police). A few minutes behind the Yaris’s return past the pub is what appears to be a speeding red car, followed by 7 more cars crossing the bridge in around 20 mins.

It’s just SUCH a short timeframe for anything to have happened without other witnesses.
 
I’m now having another unsettling thought. AO posted on the Facebook group about her and her husband seeing group of lads with bikes at 13.45pm who were exactly where Frankie’s bike was later found.

She then posted a lot about how her and her husband had been searching locally along the Afon Cegin river (which is now being searched). She hasn’t posted or liked anything for days. Could she and her husband be more involved than they let on...? I hope not, but this would lead police up the wrong path and produce an alibi for them being in the area where police are now looking for his body.

As far as I’m aware, nobody else has seen these lads on bikes and they’re not on CCTV. One young male cyclist was seen on CCTV but is no longer part of the investigation.

At the very least, AO and her husband were in the vicinity at the same time as Frankie, the blue Toyota Yaris that appears to be turning around, the red car that appears to be speeding and the dark grey car.

Edit: they drive a blue car which looks like the blue Yaris seen turning around too.
 
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Mersault said:
I’m now having another unsettling thought. AO posted on the Facebook group about her and her husband seeing group of lads with bikes at 13.45pm who were exactly where Frankie’s bike was later found.

She then posted a lot about how her and her husband had been searching locally along the Afon Cegin river (which is now being searched). She hasn’t posted or liked anything for days. Could she and her husband be more involved than they let on...? I hope not, but this would lead police up the wrong path and produce an alibi for them being in the area where police are now looking for his body.

As far as I’m aware, nobody else has seen these lads on bikes and they’re not on CCTV. One young male cyclist was seen on CCTV but is no longer part of the investigation.

At the very least, AO and her husband were in the vicinity at the same time as Frankie, the blue Toyota Yaris that appears to be turning around, the red car that appears to be speeding and the dark grey car.

Edit: they drive a blue car which looks like the blue Yaris seen turning around too.
Click to expand...
Very interesting observation/thought. Can no longer find any comments on the Find Frankie page from AO? Have they been removed? Were they possibly covering for a family member? Are they the two people arrested for perverting course of justice? Was a family member driving the blue car?? Jmo.
 
Does anyone know when the police have to release the names of those arrested? Is it just when charged? I think they have 96hrs to charge so until tomorrow evening.

I am leaning towards it being local people. Perhaps the names are already known in the community?
 
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HLC35 said:
Very interesting observation/thought. Can no longer find any comments on the Find Frankie page from AO? Have they been removed? Were they possibly covering for a family member? Are they the two people arrested for perverting course of justice? Was a family member driving the blue car?? Jmo.
Click to expand...

I can still see her posts and she’s still a member of the group.

I do wonder why she and her husband wouldn’t just call the police if they were involved. My first thought was that the person who’d hit him had come from the rave and knew they were drunk or under the influence, and possibly would be facing other charges related to possession and putting on illegal events (there’s more serious penalties due to coronavirus). But then, Frankie seemed to know the people left at the rave... And would they still be driving back so late in the day?
 
Mersault said:
Does anyone know when the police have to release the names of those arrested? Is it just when charged? I think they have 96hrs to charge so until tomorrow evening.

I am leaning towards it being local people. Perhaps the names are already known in the community?
Click to expand...


Reported yesterday - see my post on p3 - that:

One person remains in police custody, whilst two others have been released under investigation.
 
N
MsMiniSleuth said:
Reported yesterday - see my post on p3 - that:

One person remains in police custody, whilst two others have been released under investigation.
Click to expand...

No names have been released yet though, which seems unusual? If the one person still in custody isn’t charged today or tomorrow, will he remain nameless and be released too?
 
Mersault said:
I can still see her posts and she’s still a member of the group.

I do wonder why she and her husband wouldn’t just call the police if they were involved. My first thought was that the person who’d hit him had come from the rave and knew they were drunk or under the influence, and possibly would be facing other charges related to possession and putting on illegal events (there’s more serious penalties due to coronavirus). But then, Frankie seemed to know the people left at the rave... And would they still be driving back so late in the day?
Click to expand...

Apologies if I’m not following - is AO the initials of an individual that posted about the young cyclists sighting on the FB group?
 
HeatherErica said:
Apologies if I’m not following - is AO the initials of an individual that posted about the young cyclists sighting on the FB group?
Click to expand...

Yes, that’s right.

I must say this seems like a long time to be questioning the suspect if it’s a straightforward hit-and-run. I can only guess he’s not talking?
 
Mersault said:
I can still see her posts and she’s still a member of the group.

I do wonder why she and her husband wouldn’t just call the police if they were involved. My first thought was that the person who’d hit him had come from the rave and knew they were drunk or under the influence, and possibly would be facing other charges related to possession and putting on illegal events (there’s more serious penalties due to coronavirus). But then, Frankie seemed to know the people left at the rave... And would they still be driving back so late in the day?
Click to expand...
Sorry, I missed that member’s posts/they are still active on the group; must be looking in completely the wrong places! Just wondered like you if it’s a possible false alibi
 
Detectives investigating the disappearance of 18-year-old Frankie Morris are appealing for drivers of these 13 vehicles to get in touch.

Frantisek “Frankie” Morris, from Llandegfan on Anglesey, vanished after attending a rave at a disused quarry at Pentir near Bangor. He was last seen pushing his bike near the Vaynol Arms in Pentir at 1.12pm on Sunday, May 2


Searches are today continuing in the Pentir area with police keen to speak to the drivers of a number of vehicles captured on CCTV.

Chief Inspector Owain Llewelyn, of North Wales Police, said: "I would like to make an appeal to the drivers of the cars in the attached images to come forward, as they may hold vital information which will assist us with our enquiries."

The 13 vehicles police want to trace after Frankie Morris disappearance
 
The man being questioned has been released under police bail. Must not have enough to charge him with.

Anyone else get a weird vibe from the rave pictures and attendees? In all the pictures Frankie is in the background, stood away from the group and it doesn’t seem like he was there with friends. He’s underdressed and doesn’t seem to have any food or drink with him. He seems to have been known by but not particularly close to anyone there. The people who gave him a lift left without him. Since his disappearance, only a few have even shared articles, despite most having active and open Facebook profiles.

Even with the arrests, I’m wondering <modsnip> if something bad happened whilst he was there (what?).
 
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