Found Deceased UK - Frankie Morris, 18, bike found Pentir Bangor, North Wales, 2 May 2021

[JuicyLucy]

Really (in a distinctly British way) hammering on how they believe motive was distress over an implied-to-be baseless rape accusation.

As our culture currently stands, a rape accusation that police don't deem even worth making contact with the accused can cause a young man to hang himself in the woods. We should all be aware of this.

And just to add, on reflection, that imo no woman who has been raped should be encouraged to keep her allegations to herself for fear that a man may end up committing suicide as a result.

 

[jackal67]

And just to add, on reflection, that imo no woman who has been raped should be encouraged to keep her allegations to herself for fear that a man may end up committing suicide as a result.

Do we know for a fact it was a female that made the allegations? Men can be rape victims too. The shaking hands comment made me wonder? JMO

 

[JuicyLucy]

Do we know for a fact it was a female that made the allegations? Men can be rape victims too. The shaking hands comment made me wonder? JMO

Thank you. No, we don't. That's a fair point and I made an assumption. But, male or female, my point is that there are lots of reasons police might not proceed with investigating an allegation besides the allegation being baseless.

I'm not saying that Frankie had done anything wrong - I really have no idea - but I just have a problem with the idea that rape allegations that are not followed up on must necessarily be malicious and that we all need to 'be aware of' the suicide risk they might carry. It seems to me that Frankie had other problems, and that the coroner thought so too.

 

[jackal67]

Thank you. No, we don't. That's a fair point and I made an assumption. But, male or female, my point is that there are lots of reasons police might not proceed with investigating an allegation besides the allegation being baseless.

I'm not saying that Frankie had done anything wrong - I really have no idea - but I just have a problem with the idea that rape allegations that are not followed up on must necessarily be malicious and that we all need to 'be aware of' the suicide risk they might carry. It seems to me that Frankie had other problems, and that the coroner thought so too.

Thank you. I was wondering if the allegation WAS reported to the police or not? Doesn't actually say that does it? Only that the police did not speak to Frankie about it . So was it friends/family that told the police about it during the course of the investigation?

 

[evilwise]

Based on the summary in the link @LucyRocket posted, I think the coroner, while duly considering it, inferred this was the least of it actually. What he told his brother about having ideas of suicide because his life wasn't going anywhere is much more germane, even if his brother didn't think he was serious, and we can all learn from that. But the bit everyone really needs to be aware of imo is the psychological effects of recreational drug use, which lots of people both downplay and are at risk of. If he was already contemplating suicide, then a cocaine and ketamine comedown is probably what tipped him over the edge on that particular day imo.

JMO

I think that both the coroner and the detective quote clearly believe that it was, in fact, the most of it judging by the opening paragraphs of the article, before even the cause of death.

Frantisek 'Frankie' Morris, 18, from Llandegfan, Anglesey took his own life and an "allegation of rape" may have "troubled his mind", senior coroner Katie Sutherland confirmed at an inquest in Caernarfon.

Detective Inspector Lee Boycott told the hearing the allegation was made around eight months prior to his death and that no further action had been taken with Mr Morris at the time and he was never spoken to by police officers.

The rape allegation was mentioned to Mr Morris at the rave, held in a disused quarry near Waunfawr, Gwynedd on May 1. He was last seen pushing his bike at Pentir the following day.
​

The one expression of suicidal ideation to his brother happened months prior, presumably soon after the initial accusation and the rave also did not seem to be something out of the ordinary for Frankie. No one else at the rave killed themselves while coming down. Good investigating focuses on the out of the ordinary and what was out of the ordinary was people the party bringing up the accusations.

And just to add, on reflection, that imo no woman who has been raped should be encouraged to keep her allegations to herself for fear that a man may end up committing suicide as a result.

No crime victim should ever feel reluctant to report their crime to the police. Even in cases where no criminal action is warranted, some measure of justice can still be had in civil court. However, when people make their case in the egregious court of public opinion they should be more aware that the penalty can be life and even, under certain circumstances, death.

Thank you. I was wondering if the allegation WAS reported to the police or not? Doesn't actually say that does it? Only that the police did not speak to Frankie about it . So was it friends/family that told the police about it during the course of the investigation?

I feel like I am only making a very small assumption that Detective Boycott, when making an official statement at a death inquest that "the allegation was made around eight months prior to his death and that no further action had been taken" he is speaking officially as a police detective.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I think that both the coroner and the detective quote clearly believe that it was, in fact, the most of it judging by the opening paragraphs of the article, before even the cause of death.

Frantisek 'Frankie' Morris, 18, from Llandegfan, Anglesey took his own life and an "allegation of rape" may have "troubled his mind", senior coroner Katie Sutherland confirmed at an inquest in Caernarfon.

Detective Inspector Lee Boycott told the hearing the allegation was made around eight months prior to his death and that no further action had been taken with Mr Morris at the time and he was never spoken to by police officers.

The rape allegation was mentioned to Mr Morris at the rave, held in a disused quarry near Waunfawr, Gwynedd on May 1. He was last seen pushing his bike at Pentir the following day.
​

The one expression of suicidal ideation to his brother happened months prior, presumably soon after the initial accusation and the rave also did not seem to be something out of the ordinary for Frankie. No one else at the rave killed themselves while coming down. Good investigating focuses on the out of the ordinary and what was out of the ordinary was people the party bringing up the accusations.


No crime victim should ever feel reluctant to report their crime to the police. Even in cases where no criminal action is warranted, some measure of justice can still be had in civil court. However, when people make their case in the egregious court of public opinion they should be more aware that the penalty can be life and even, under certain circumstances, death.


I feel like I am only making a very small assumption that Detective Boycott, when making an official statement at a death inquest that "the allegation was made around eight months prior to his death and that no further action had been taken" he is speaking officially as a police detective.

There is so much we don't know about this, and of course no one will ever know exactly what precipitated Frankie's suicide, but let's stick to the facts:

• The allegation was 8 or 9 months prior.
• The chance meeting with the person who made the allegation was some weeks earlier.
• The disclosure of suicidal ideation was one month earlier (not 'months prior' and not 'soon after the initial allegation').

Cause of Frankie Morris' death confirmed by coroner at inquest

Of course the DI is speaking in an official capacity at the inquest, but that doesn't answer @jackal67's question about whether there was ever a police report about the alleged rape or whether his knowledge of that allegation was purely as a result of the inquiry into Frankie's death. We would need some other source to corroborate that one way or the other. But neither is there any evidence that the alleged victim appealed to the 'court of public opinion' just because other people knew about it. Again, we just don't know.

I don't want to say too much more because I imagine Frankie's family are beside themselves as it is, but a disclosure of suicidal ideation, especially for a young man, is a very difficult thing to do and imo was highly significant. From what has been reported it seems to have been to do with his life 'not getting anywhere' rather than the rape allegation, which everyone seems to have thought was water under the bridge.

The only significance of that, as far as I can see, is that it got mentioned at the rave, which, to my mind, is why the drugs are significant. Both cocaine and ketamine (amongst other recreational drugs) are associated with paranoia and negative intrusive thoughts on comedown. It would explain why something that everyone reports was done with might have played on his mind at that particular time, which is all the coroner notes. But the fact that he had already contemplated suicide is what makes the difference imo between brooding about something upsetting and going ahead with what subsequently happened.

I stand by my assertion that anyone who believes they have been raped or sexually assaulted should not be encouraged to keep their allegations to themself for fear of something bad happening to the person they intend to name, and neither should they feel that the only support they're entitled to seek must come from the police or the courts.

JMO

 

[evilwise]

I strongly encourage anyone reading this thread to also read the report on the death inquest for themselves and draw their own conclusions about what it says.