Found Deceased UK - Frankie Morris, 18, bike found Pentir Bangor, North Wales, 2 May 2021

[evilwise]

Plenty of drugs, especially rave drugs cause a very appreciable serotonin dip after their initial effects wear off. An already depressed person might not be planning a suicide at 3am but be willing to carry one out by 9am

 

[Mersault]

And why would he hide himself? Because he loves his friends and family and wants to spare them the pain of knowing he’s committed suicide or seeing his body. I’m sure he thought he’d never be found.

It’s so very sad. Poor, poor Frankie.

 

[Bit of hope]

Now that his body is found it's the proper time to say RIP Frankie Morris. Sincere condolences to his loved ones, especially his mother.

I'm curious if a CoD will be published. Non of my business of course, but I would like to know what happened. It will take away a lot of speculation IMO. I think it's communication wise not very clever to say "not suspicious", without telling the reason. What is common practice in the UK on this issue? @Angleterre what are your thoughts on the matter.

 

[blackcrow]

And why would he hide himself? Because he loves his friends and family and wants to spare them the pain of knowing he’s committed suicide or seeing his body. I’m sure he thought he’d never be found.

It’s so very sad. Poor, poor Frankie.

I had looked at it differently, that the not knowing would just add another type of pain for his family and friends and hadn't thought of it that way, so thank you for your thoughts.

Now that I look at it from this angle, there are a lot of things that could make sense when looked at from another direction. The messages his mum referred to could have been something he was upset about, for example.

Poor Frankie. I hope that all his family's questions are answered and that they can now take the time and privacy they need to start to grieve.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I had looked at it differently, that the not knowing would just add another type of pain for his family and friends and hadn't thought of it that way, so thank you for your thoughts.

Now that I look at it from this angle, there are a lot of things that could make sense when looked at from another direction. The messages his mum referred to could have been something he was upset about, for example.

Poor Frankie. I hope that all his family's questions are answered and that they can now take the time and privacy they need to start to grieve.

It's not uncommon for suicidal people to cover their traces in the belief that it will spare loved ones. It's an extension of the self-abnegating belief that 'everyone will be happier/better off without me'. Of course, the opposite is true and because family and friends are already distraught at the loss of access, the not knowing is a terrible addition to their pain. As you said upthread, the triggers for suicide are not usually very amenable to logic.

(Not that suicide has been confirmed yet in this case afaik.)

 

[Bit of hope]

It's not uncommon for suicidal people to cover their traces in the belief that it will spare loved ones. It's an extension of the self-abnegating belief that 'everyone will be happier/better off without me'. Of course, the opposite is true and because family and friends are already distraught at the loss of access, the not knowing is a terrible addition to their pain. As you said upthread, the triggers for suicide are not usually very amenable to logic.

(Not that suicide has been confirmed yet in this case afaik.)

I totally agree with this. Very well described. We don't know if this was a suicide..but if it was, he had to feel excruciating pain and shame, maybe fueled with taking drugs or the wore off..

 

[infinit]

The fact that the updates have gone from body found to non-suspicious circumstances so quickly makes me think something was found on him. Can’t see it being a physical note as he’s pictured with nothing outside of shorts pockets, so a detailed note on his phone would make sense to me.

Completely agree, assuming suicide. Either a note or paraphernalia required for his method in the immediate vicinity of his body.

 

[infinit]

I totally agree with this. Very well described. We don't know if this was a suicide..but if it was, he had to feel excruciating pain and shame, maybe fueled with taking drugs or the wore off..

Alcohol is also known to exacerbate suicidal feelings, I'll have to dig it out but I think a reasonable percentage of suicides have alcohol found in the system.

 

[jackal67]

I had looked at it differently, that the not knowing would just add another type of pain for his family and friends and hadn't thought of it that way, so thank you for your thoughts.

Now that I look at it from this angle, there are a lot of things that could make sense when looked at from another direction. The messages his mum referred to could have been something he was upset about, for example.

Poor Frankie. I hope that all his family's questions are answered and that they can now take the time and privacy they need to start to grieve.

Poor Frankie so sad if he did end his own life. The messages his Mum referred to though were not from Frankie but from 'various people' who had messaged her and which led her to believe that he may of come to harm.
I still feel that something happened at the rave to upset or worry him due to the amount of posts about people withholding information,being scared to come forward etc. and posts about nasty rumours and gossip.
Why did the friends he got a lift from leave without him, knowing he would have to walk home with a punctured bike? What led police to arrest for the death by dangerous driving? Still can,t fathom that one out?
Could those arrested have been the Friends he had a lift from?
So so sad to think of him walking all that way alone in turmoil.

 

[evilwise]

Alcohol is also known to exacerbate suicidal feelings, I'll have to dig it out but I think a reasonable percentage of suicides have alcohol found in the system.

True but in my opinion alcoholics' declines are more gradual both pharmacologically and psychologically. An alcoholic doesn't commit suicide the morning after a party, they have a fatal accident instead.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the circumstances in this one turned out to be interpretable either way though.

 

[Vern]

Rest peacefully Frankie.

Whatever happen, accidental or intentional on your part, I hope you are at peace.

The police obiously have information or evidence that we are not aware of to deem this non-suspicious.

 

[infinit]

True but in my opinion alcoholics' declines are more gradual both pharmacologically and psychologically. An alcoholic doesn't commit suicide the morning after a party, they have a fatal accident instead.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if the circumstances in this one turned out to be interpretable either way though.

I didn't mean to assume he was an alcoholic, just that if he's been at a rave there is a reasonable chance he consumed it, and if he already had issues and drank it could have been the final straw that night.

 

[annpats]

"No suspicious circumstances" is British police speak for suicide or dying of natural causes.
(So basically, not murder or manslaughter. )

 

[JuicyLucy]

I'm curious if a CoD will be published. Non of my business of course, but I would like to know what happened. It will take away a lot of speculation IMO. I think it's communication wise not very clever to say "not suspicious", without telling the reason. What is common practice in the UK on this issue?

SBM

@Bit of hope

There will be a coroner's inquest, which will go through the post mortem findings, any other evidence, the police investigation and any witness testimony, and the coroner will then reach a verdict of, say, suicide, unlawful killing, natural causes, accidental death, drug/alcohol related, RTC, etc. If the evidence is inadequate, the coroner can record an open verdict.

Inquests are regularly opened and then immediately adjourned where a murder investigation is running in parallel and are resumed after the outcome of the trial. Where the death is preumed to be non-suspicious, like this one, the inquest can and will be halted if something comes up that introduces the possibility of a crime having been committed, and that will then need to be investigated by LE before a second inquest can occur.

Inquests are generally open to the public and the media, so in all likelihood the details of what happened to Frankie will come out in due course, though not necessarily for a little while.

 

[blackcrow]

Just thought I would add this as I think I have some more information this afternoon. Floral tributes have been left at the woods I have shown with the white arrow in the map, I am assuming based on this (but I don't know for certain) that this is where Frankie's body was found.

The red marking shows a public footpath. Based on personal knowledge, the path is often/usually impassable due to flooding these days. I don't believe that it is regularly walked. This location does make me think that suicide is the more likely case here. If I am correct and this is where Frankie was found, it's heartbreaking to think that after so much time was spent searching quite lonely areas, he was so close to people. I think he had friends living just across the road, overlooking these woods. To my knowledge, these woods were never searched by police despite being just over a mile away from Frankie's last known location. Sadly I believe there was another suicide in the woods at the beginning of the footpath a few years ago.

A desperately sad outcome no matter what the exact details are. RIP Frankie.

 

[jackal67]

Just thought I would add this as I think I have some more information this afternoon. Floral tributes have been left at the woods I have shown with the white arrow in the map, I am assuming based on this (but I don't know for certain) that this is where Frankie's body was found.

The red marking shows a public footpath. Based on personal knowledge, the path is often/usually impassable due to flooding these days. I don't believe that it is regularly walked. This location does make me think that suicide is the more likely case here. If I am correct and this is where Frankie was found, it's heartbreaking to think that after so much time was spent searching quite lonely areas, he was so close to people. I think he had friends living just across the road, overlooking these woods. To my knowledge, these woods were never searched by police despite being just over a mile away from Frankie's last known location. Sadly I believe there was another suicide in the woods at the beginning of the footpath a few years ago.

A desperately sad outcome no matter what the exact details are. RIP Frankie.

That is so sad . I believe there were so many searches by different groups dogs, drones etc? Yet found by a dog walker eventually? Is the footpath the only way to get to that spot?
The thought of him doing that long lonely walk and then this outcome is heartbreaking

 

[Jon77]

Wow! I thought it could be up that path. The path was always overgrown when I was kid, you’d never get up there. It did get cleared and would be a good little route, to get you off the lanes.

 

[blackcrow]

That's the thing - it isn't a long or lonely walk at all The footpath isn't long, and if he didn't use the footpath he would have had to walk through the village.

That screenshot might not give an accurate representation, but those woods are not very deep, and they are just off the road, really close to a housing estate. I have edited it to show the roads in blue. The path is one way he could have walked if he was trying not to be seen, but equally I think you could probably step in straight from the road at the top, I don't think it is fenced off.
There were a number of searches generally but I don't know of any searches of these woods and I don't think the police searches got as far as there. They are privately owned and there is a storage unit/barn at one end of them whith a lot of private/no entry type signs.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Thanks for the local info @blackcrow.

Considering the proximity to where he was last seen and the range of resources devoted to this search, it seems extraordinary that one dog handler with one cadaver dog could not have walked even one time along each of these roads or footpaths in the last month. The only good thing I can think of to say is that it probably didn't change the outcome.

 

[jackal67]

That's the thing - it isn't a long or lonely walk at all The footpath isn't long, and if he didn't use the footpath he would have had to walk through the village.

That screenshot might not give an accurate representation, but those woods are not very deep, and they are just off the road, really close to a housing estate. I have edited it to show the roads in blue. The path is one way he could have walked if he was trying not to be seen, but equally I think you could probably step in straight from the road at the top, I don't think it is fenced off.
There were a number of searches generally but I don't know of any searches of these woods and I don't think the police searches got as far as there. They are privately owned and there is a storage unit/barn at one end of them whith a lot of private/no entry type signs.

Thanks for the info @blackcrow. I meant the long walk he had already done from leaving the rave.
Finding this case particularly hard. Probably as a mother of sons myself. Wishing he could of rung someone to come pick him up ,give him a hug and tell him it will all be ok.