Found Deceased UK - Frankie Morris, 18, bike found Pentir Bangor, North Wales, 2 May 2021

[StillDiggin]

Yes another ruling that doesnt tie in with my view. How can this not be suspicious? What about the last few concerning texts on Frankies phone mentioned by her mum? What about RIP’s that were written by family/friends a few weeks ago? These people must of had evidence that Frankie had died. I cannot think of a scenerio where u write RIPS a few weeks before knowing he is dead and this plays out to be suicide. I just find it odd. I got the sense everybody knew Frankie had died and if u were just looking for a body to find someone who had committed suicide you would have more hope of finding the person alive.

 

[AmandaSkis]

Wait, what happened to the hit and run arrests? After all, the title of this thread still has "arrests" in it but if police are saying no foul play, why are there arrests?

 

[blackcrow]

I really didn't expect to read this news this evening.

People seem to be jumping to suicide because it is not being treated as suspicious, but there is also the possibility that Frankie had an accident of some kind whilst off the beaten track and couldn't get back to the road or use his phone to contact anyone. It is heartbreaking to imagine.

It all still seems very strange to me. I know that life is strange, and sometimes there are lots of loose ends that just don't mean anything in the end, and don't get tied up, but there are a number of things niggling at me.

- The messages Frankie's mum mentioned.
- The bike being hidden.
- The location he was found at: whether suicide or misadventure, why was he there? If misadventure, he must have got quite far from the road/where he was last seen to have not been found.
- Why wasn't he found sooner?
- The death by dangerous driving arrests. I know the individuals weren't charged, but the police must still have had something significant to go on to have made arrests and had an extended questioning period.

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Could he have been high on something, after all he had just come from that rave?

 

[MsMiniSleuth]

Wait, what happened to the hit and run arrests? After all, the title of this thread still has "arrests" in it but if police are saying no foul play, why are there arrests?

Thread title has been updated.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I really didn't expect to read this news this evening.

People seem to be jumping to suicide because it is not being treated as suspicious, but there is also the possibility that Frankie had an accident of some kind whilst off the beaten track and couldn't get back to the road or use his phone to contact anyone. It is heartbreaking to imagine.

It all still seems very strange to me. I know that life is strange, and sometimes there are lots of loose ends that just don't mean anything in the end, and don't get tied up, but there are a number of things niggling at me.

- The messages Frankie's mum mentioned.
- The bike being hidden.
- The location he was found at: whether suicide or misadventure, why was he there? If misadventure, he must have got quite far from the road/where he was last seen to have not been found.
- Why wasn't he found sooner?
- The death by dangerous driving arrests. I know the individuals weren't charged, but the police must still have had something significant to go on to have made arrests and had an extended questioning period.

BBM

Do you think that the police would have been so quick to say his death isn't suspicious if there was any kind of evidence of an accident? It's a genuine question. I'm struggling to think of what kind of fatal accident he could have had that wouldn't have warranted at least a closer look before any kind of determination.

If we assume the body isn't, ahem, fresh (and I accept it is an assumption although probably not a huge one), then I think you would expect something definitive, in fact, to be able to say so quickly that the CoD was not suspicious, i.e. a suicide note. But conversely, if it seems he was alive until quite recently, I would want to look closely at where he had been, what he had been doing, and with whom he might have been doing it all that time, unless, again, that was quite clear.

What kind of scenario are you imagining @blackcrow?

 

[blackcrow]

BBM

Do you think that the police would have been so quick to say his death isn't suspicious if there was any kind of evidence of an accident? It's a genuine question. I'm struggling to think of what kind of fatal accident he could have had that wouldn't have warranted at least a closer look before any kind of determination.

If we assume the body isn't, ahem, fresh (and I accept it is an assumption although probably not a huge one), then I think you would expect something definitive, in fact, to be able to say so quickly that the CoD was not suspicious, i.e. a suicide note. But conversely, if it seems he was alive until quite recently, I would want to look closely at where he had been, what he had been doing, and with whom he might have been doing it all that time, unless, again, that was quite clear.

What kind of scenario are you imagining @blackcrow?

I wasn't thinking that he had been alive more recently, more just that an accident could still be possible. A broken leg? Decided to extend the party and take some leftover drugs in the woods on a sunny afternoon on his way home?
I did think the same about how quickly the police have publicly announced their conclusion. Its grim to think of, but I did wonder, how he would have done it if it was suicide. It didn't seem planned. He was in the middle of nowhere. He didn't seem to have anything with him.

Just trying to keep an open mind.

 

[JuicyLucy]

I wasn't thinking that he had been alive more recently, more just that an accident could still be possible. A broken leg? Decided to extend the party and take some leftover drugs in the woods on a sunny afternoon on his way home?
I did think the same about how quickly the police have publicly announced their conclusion. Its grim to think of, but I did wonder, how he would have done it if it was suicide. It didn't seem planned. He was in the middle of nowhere. He didn't seem to have anything with him.

Just trying to keep an open mind.

I think, if we assume he's been dead most of the month he's been missing, that the body will not have been in a great state. Thick woodland in North Wales is about the coolest place it could have been, but four weeks is four weeks. If he was found yesterday and they are sure today that it was not suspicious, then they have information that was not yielded solely by the PM imo. If that is not the case, then if he were my relative, I would not be very happy with the thoroughness of the investigation, especially given the frisson in the middle where it seemed they were about to charge someone with causing his death. JMO though and I may have to eat my words over the coming days once more is known.

Since you (kind of) asked, the most common method of suicide in the UK is hanging, which accounts for around 60% of male suicides and frequently involves the use of improvised materials.
Suicide in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
Suicide by hanging - Wikipedia

But I didn't see this coming, so I can't claim there's anything obvious about the conclusions I'm drawing now. And I may be wrong.

 

[Mersault]

https://twitter.com/NWPolice/status/1400868288817766407?s=19

It isn't being treated as suspicious

Reading that actually made my jaw drop. It’s only since his body was found that I’ve even considered it.

The lack of personal care (no coat or jumper overnight), disengaged demeanour (not engaging with people at the rave or talking much to his mother), the lack of close friends (except for childhood friends) speaking out, the disengagement from his parents (had recently spent time in a hostel; mother lived abroad; brother much older), the lack of job or studies...

A lot of mental illnesses kick in during the teenage years. This could have been the source of rumours. Many young men’s first suicide attempt is successful.

Poor Frankie. RIP.

 

[ChippyTea]

Such sad news.

I have been following this case for a few days. I noted a few comments about his tricky time since he moved to the UK. On my lunch break the other day I looked on his Facebook profile and went through a few images just to get a picture of his life. There were a few with comments from what looked like people his age group from the local area. Essentially they were threatening/homophobic and most certainly would be classed as bullying. However they were made a year or two ago so not sure how relevant.

Feel so sorry for him.

 

[blackcrow]

I think, if we assume he's been dead most of the month he's been missing, that the body will not have been in a great state. Thick woodland in North Wales is about the coolest place it could have been, but four weeks is four weeks. If he was found yesterday and they are sure today that it was not suspicious, then they have information that was not yielded solely by the PM imo. If that is not the case, then if he were my relative, I would not be very happy with the thoroughness of the investigation, especially given the frisson in the middle where it seemed they were about to charge someone with causing his death. JMO though and I may have to eat my words over the coming days once more is known.

Since you (kind of) asked, the most common method of suicide in the UK is hanging, which accounts for around 60% of male suicides and frequently involves the use of improvised materials.
Suicide in the United Kingdom - Wikipedia
Suicide by hanging - Wikipedia

But I didn't see this coming, so I can't claim there's anything obvious about the conclusions I'm drawing now. And I may be wrong.

Thanks @JuicyLucy I understand your points, and I don't disagree with them. My perspective was that it wasn't that easy to hang yourself unprepared in the middle of the woods, but I am of course totally open to being wrong about that.

I think perhaps I don't have total faith in the police in this instance, and perhaps part of me is trying to apply logical thinking to a potential suicide when, if that is the case - the role of logic is limited. I fully appreciate that just because it doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean it isn't what happened.

 

[blackcrow]

The lack of personal care (no coat or jumper overnight), disengaged demeanour (not engaging with people at the rave or talking much to his mother), the lack of close friends (except for childhood friends) speaking out, the disengagement from his parents (had recently spent time in a hostel; mother lived abroad; brother much older), the lack of job or studies...

Your observations are making me wonder how I didn't put these things together before

 

[JuicyLucy]

Thanks @JuicyLucy I understand your points, and I don't disagree with them. My perspective was that it wasn't that easy to hang yourself unprepared in the middle of the woods, but I am of course totally open to being wrong about that.

I think perhaps I don't have total faith in the police in this instance, and perhaps part of me is trying to apply logical thinking to a potential suicide when, if that is the case - the role of logic is limited. I fully appreciate that just because it doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean it isn't what happened.

BBM

No, well, that is always a healthy stance imho.

 

[Mersault]

Thanks @JuicyLucy I understand your points, and I don't disagree with them. My perspective was that it wasn't that easy to hang yourself unprepared in the middle of the woods, but I am of course totally open to being wrong about that.

I think perhaps I don't have total faith in the police in this instance, and perhaps part of me is trying to apply logical thinking to a potential suicide when, if that is the case - the role of logic is limited. I fully appreciate that just because it doesn't make sense to me doesn't mean it isn't what happened.

He still had his phone and it was pinging until Sunday I think. Perhaps a suicide note was left on the phone which contained personal information which means his family have confirmed it was written by him.

 

[JuicyLucy]

Interesting that it was still pinging until Sunday. How do we know that? Is that normal? Seems like a long time. And how was he not found earlier if that was the case? The interrogation of phone data isn't my area so I'd be glad to be educated.

 

[Mersault]

Interesting that it was still pinging until Sunday. How do we know that? Is that normal? Seems like a long time. And how was he not found earlier if that was the case? The interrogation of phone data isn't my area so I'd be glad to be educated.

Maybe it wasn’t... I can’t remember where I read that but it would partly explain why the search stayed there.

I think that’s be a reasonable explanation as to why foul play’s been ruled out so quickly though.

 

[jackal67]

Reading that actually made my jaw drop. It’s only since his body was found that I’ve even considered it.

The lack of personal care (no coat or jumper overnight), disengaged demeanour (not engaging with people at the rave or talking much to his mother), the lack of close friends (except for childhood friends) speaking out, the disengagement from his parents (had recently spent time in a hostel; mother lived abroad; brother much older), the lack of job or studies...

A lot of mental illnesses kick in during the teenage years. This could have been the source of rumours. Many young men’s first suicide attempt is successful.

Poor Frankie. RIP.

I get all your points . But I am finding it hard to see it as a suicide myself. Why walk all that way pushing a bike for example. Having retrieved it after the rave? Why hide the bike? The messages his mum got making her think someone had harmed him. Does the police update mean that they have the post mortem results already?

 

[StillDiggin]

I would of thought CL would have done a post by now, thanking the public.

 

[blackcrow]

I would of thought CL would have done a post by now, thanking the public.

She has reposted (in the group and on her personal page) the North Wales Police post confirming that the body found has been identified as Frankie and that his death is being treated as not suspicious. I don't think it's unusual for the family not to feel ready to make any comments yet.

 

[Mersault]

I get all your points . But I am finding it hard to see it as a suicide myself. Why walk all that way pushing a bike for example. Having retrieved it after the rave? Why hide the bike? The messages his mum got making her think someone had harmed him. Does the police update mean that they have the post mortem results already?

I don’t know; I feel like it all makes sense. It’s hard, because this way, there’s no justice. But it makes sense to me.

The bike’s his dad’s. I’ve never thought it that odd that he’d hide it rather than leaving it out in the open. He’d hidden it somewhere, a hedge I think someone said, (rather than at a friend’s house) before the rave too. If he’d hidden it carefully, there’d be less chance of it being stolen before either he, or a search party much later, would retrieve it and return it to his dad.

He was an experienced outdoorsman very familiar with the area. I can believe he’d be able to hide himself well if he chose to. I think it was a decision he came to on the walk, not particularly premeditated but borne of a sad and lonely time in lockdown and a feeling that he didn’t have the camaraderie he saw at the rave (and quite likely a comedown from a chemical high), after a possible prolonged period of bullying and feeling like an outsider. His graffiti name was CRAZY, after all.

CL isn’t a blood relative so is unlikely to be being updated by the police. She may think it’s his parents’ place to confirm his death publicly. The vast majority of the vocal posters in the FB group never met Frankie.

The fact that the updates have gone from body found to non-suspicious circumstances so quickly makes me think something was found on him. Can’t see it being a physical note as he’s pictured with nothing outside of shorts pockets, so a detailed note on his phone would make sense to me.

His mum knew he did drugs and didn’t want to believe he was suicidal, because as posters said before, that’s very hard for loved ones to accept.

JMO, as always.