UK - Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies, 2018

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In the US- such hearings are also open to the public and documentation is housed FOREVER in the licensing agency's archives- also accessible to the public.

I do have a question for a Brit- a page or so back there was a mention of it being a 'Level 2 NICU'. In the US- that is not high acuity. If a smallish hospital has monitoring equipment and a pediatrician on-call, they can be considered Level 2. ( By comparison, US 'Level 4' is for the sickest of the sick, uber-preemies, complex cardiac defects, specialty surgical services) So I wonder if it is different in the UK?

UK neonatal unit standards assessment definition. Level 2 includes short term neonatal intensive care.

Original document at

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjAAegQIAhAB&usg=AOvVaw0lrFsoZ428dr7YgmSZMtV3
 

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I will say that IMO people seem (not just on here, but on the Internet generally) to be giving this woman a more sympathetic view than if she was a man, or an older and/or less attractive woman.

I would argue, though, that this is normal, rational, logical human thinking. Statistically it is incredibly rare for someone of her age and gender to commit multiple murders. I don’t think people are being soft on her ‘because she’s a woman’, as I’ve seen some people imply.

They’re just noticing how unusual this case is, and additional questioning is a natural response to that.
 
I may be getting mixed up here but I think I have read something about high insulin levels in relation to LL but I can’t be 100% certain

re the CPS - it’s during personal discussions
I have a very close friend who is the deputy crown prosecutor for the country .... say no more about that !
According to the report, most infants had undergone a Post Mortem, but that did not include systematic tests for toxicology, blood electrolytes, or blood sugar, since the infants died in hospital. (p 24)

I don't know if that means none of those tests were ever performed at all, though.
 
I would argue, though, that this is normal, rational, logical human thinking. Statistically it is incredibly rare for someone of her age and gender to commit multiple murders. I don’t think people are being soft on her ‘because she’s a woman’, as I’ve seen some people imply.

They’re just noticing how unusual this case is, and additional questioning is a natural response to that.
Yes, even as late as 1998 in the US, the FBI insisted that there were no female serial killers. As of now, about 85% percent are men and 15% are women.

Women tend to kill for material or financial gain, while men are more often motivated by sexual fantasies or pleasure.

It's hard to understand what the motivation could possibly be for killing vulnerable babies.

Imo
 
I would argue, though, that this is normal, rational, logical human thinking. Statistically it is incredibly rare for someone of her age and gender to commit multiple murders. I don’t think people are being soft on her ‘because she’s a woman’, as I’ve seen some people imply.

They’re just noticing how unusual this case is, and additional questioning is a natural response to that.

Women rarely murder other adults, but they murder children at rates comparable (and in some cases far higher) to men. Child homicide perpetrators worldwide: a systematic review
 
Seems a bit of a loner to me. I think she had a BF some years ago but no doubt they will crawl out of the woodwork in the months to come. Also I can’t think of many 29 yr olds who go on holiday to Newquay with their parents at that age. Has now been suspended for 18 months from practising as a nurse. This case is so OFF
 
Seems a bit of a loner to me. I think she had a BF some years ago but no doubt they will crawl out of the woodwork in the months to come. Also I can’t think of many 29 yr olds who go on holiday to Newquay with their parents at that age. Has now been suspended for 18 months from practising as a nurse. This case is so OFF

Is that following the fitness to practise panel today? I had been checking the NMC site for an update on the hearing and any sanctions imposed, but nothing published yet. What's your source?
 
Could pressure have been bought to bear upon the CPS by higher powers, beyond the police, to assuage concerns about a significant loss of confidence in the justice system and the NHS being undermined if nothing was seen to be done? Contentious I know, but there are dark arts! With Covid-19 we live in very challenging times where confidence in the NHS, medical science and the rule of law is being questioned every day in the media and on the streets. Disquiet in the functions of state are seen to be 'unhelpful' when dealing with a pandemic.

I don't know if there was any pressure locally, but I would have thought the rest of the country had moved on. I certainly hadn't thought about the case in years until this happened out of the blue.

I would have thought it more likely that the local investigation team and/or cps, who had the most contact with the families whose expectations had been raised, would feel some kind of internal or external pressure to charge. Like I said earlier, it may have come to a crunch point of going ahead with a circumstantial case or accepting that she was never going to be charged.
 
Hi Everyone, I am joining in after just finding this discussion.
I am really interested in this case, I was born at and have worked at the Countess of Chester hospital, I currently live just down the road. One of my friends had a child in neonatal care during the time period LL worked there but she has no specific memories of her.
I have been suprised by the lack of discussion of the case locally, I think it had been forgotten until the recent arrest and charging of LL.
I am new to this place so I do apologise if my comments aren't contributing much to the discussion.
I am under the impression that LL will plead not guilty and a trial will follow. Do you think it likely that the public will be allowed into the public gallary? I'm wondering if covid restrictions will be removed, and whether the trial would be open to the public? I would like to attend.
Do you guys think it likely that she will plead not guilty?
 
Hello all,

I'm fascinated by this case and came across the site whilst reading up on it. Everyone here seems to be very much more measured and rational than most other places, to be honest.

Cards on the table from the outset; I'm one of the folks who are having real trouble getting my head round that fact this she's potentially a murderer. Now, yes, I know that it's very easy to say "pfft, she can't possibly have done it because she doesn't seem the type" but, that's undeniably how my mind is working, I'm afraid. I'm more than willing to accept that she's guilty if that's the direction in which the evidence points but....it just seems so unlikely, for all the reasons which have been gone over again and again on here and elsewhere.

It is, as far as I can see, exceptionally rare for someone fitting her general profile to be a serial murderer, let alone of new-born babies; a 25 year-old, female, with no apparent turbulent childhood, who is from what seems to be a normal middle-class family, with good education, who's friends all say she was one of the most caring and responsible people they've met and who appeared to be intent on getting into a "caring" profession is very, very rare in terms of being a murderer surely? I can't think of any murderer who seems to fit that profile.

I don't think she's the attention seeking "look at me" type either. Something that struck me about the photos of her that are doing the rounds is that none of them are self taken. They all seem to have been taken by other people (friends from the context of them) in very normal social situations for someone of her age. What I also think this suggests is that it backs up the statements from people who know her who have said that she's an absolutely lovey person. People clearly want to take photos of her and people don't usually take photos of people they don't like or have a bad vibe about, they certainly don't put them on the internet.

As others have said, there seems something very "off" about this. I'm not nailing my colours to the mast here and saying that I definitely think she's not guilty - it just seems so unlikely though. I still don't think that any actual cause of death has been suggested for any of these babies from any "official" source, which just seems bizarre. Were Coroners Inquests carried out in relation to any of these deaths?

Having said all that, I wonder if she intends pleading guilty - perhaps on some diminished responsibility grounds? I say this for a couple of reasons; she was arrested twice before the arrest on which she was charged. On the final arrest the charges seemed to have been made quite rapidly. Does this suggest that the police have come up with completely damning evidence and she's confessed? Her barrister said something to the effect of "She wants a resolution to this as soon as possible". He didn't say that she's "keen to clear her name" or to "move on with her life", which is I think is interesting......or perhaps it isn't?

The prosecution requested that she be held in custody for her own protection. Now, there is obviously the fear that people will have a go at her (although in reality such things seem to be rare) but is it not also possible that if she's guilty that she might have hidden drugs somewhere in order to kill herself - might explain the very detailed search of her house and parents houses? Surely in a case like this the standard prosecution request for someone to be remanded would be due to the severity of the accusations, yet that doesn't seem to have been mentioned?

I'm really, really puzzled by this case and, to be honest, I'll be disappointed if it transpires that she's guilty.
 
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