UK - Healthcare worker arrested on suspicion of murder/attempted murder of a number of babies, 2018

[Marantz4250b]

So whatever the method they think she’s used they are assuming it killed slowly.
As she was not there/and hadn’t been for quite a long period in the case of the child in the fundraiser above. What harm did she cause that child that was so irreversible? Was it the same method for every child?

Regarding the appeal you posted - is this relating to one of the babies who died which LL has been accused of killing? From the way in which it's worded it doesn't appear to suggest that the death is in any way related to these charges yet you seem to be suggesting that it is related. In fact, the parents are saying that the child received exemplary care from everyone involved.

BTW, I can't see the harm in posting an unredacted version of it as it is obviously out there with the consent of the parents and all involved. It's a fund raising appeal so they clearly want it shared. If they didn't they would have redacted the names themselves.

 

[sleepyhead25]

Regarding the appeal you posted - is this relating to one of the babies who died which LL has been accused of killing? From the way in which it's worded it doesn't appear to suggest that the death is in any way related to these charges yet you seem to be suggesting that it is related. BTW, I can't see the harm in posting an unredacted version of it as it is obviously out there with the consent of the parents and all involved. It's a fund raising appeal so they clearly want it shared. If they didn't they would have redacted the names themselves.

Yes the above fundraiser is for one of the babies that LL is accused of killing. Both were set up shortly after the babies death.

I don’t feel comfortable posting the link out of respect to the parents as it was posted soon after their loss and I wouldn’t be sharing the link for fundraising reasons which was the intended purpose. I doubt they’ve even thought to remove the page from the charity website.

it’s very easily found online I wasn’t looking for it.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Thanks. It's hard to see how a nurse would engineer a death like that or if they had how you would prove it as the child was clearly very tiny and premature. It also reads as though the child didn't even pass away at the hospital but, rather, at the hospice some time later. That in itself seems to be rather thin "evidence" of anything, to be honest.

 

[sleepyhead25]

The child passed away at another hospital where LL didn’t work days later. The hospital where the child received most of their care wasn’t where LL worked.

I don’t know about what could be use as a poison that could kill you slowly but hopefully someone more knowledgable will come along soon.

 

[Eloise]

I am really leaning towards it being a stitch up.

None of it makes any sense. And it does feel like the NHS have put pressure on the authorities to charge her and ‘find’ / and even worse potentially ‘create’ some kind of evidence.

I could understand her colleagues having to keep quiet and not being allowed to make any comment - but the complete silence And not hearing really much positive or negative from everyone else is just odd and very eerie - if she had friends surely they would be shouting from the roof tops proclaiming her innocence unless they too have been silenced? Same with families that remember her caring for their children that aren’t connected to the trial. All seems very very fishy!

Wouldn't surprise me if we saw a suicide attempt before the trial.

I don't know what kind of sub judice laws operate in England but they probably can't say anything

How des that actually work though? I don't understand how you can monetise that.

They could sell the site to someone who is affiliated (usually when you do that you buy a link you think would become popular and just sit on it though and wait until that someone wants it and gives you more than you paid for it). Or they could sell ads or referral/affiliate links.

It could just be bad/amateur web design but it reminds me of a link farm or something. The fact it announces it's not official or endorsed makes me sus of it. Who is running it and why?

 

[Marantz4250b]

Ok, I've found that page - one of them anyway as it doesn't include the wording by the parents. It mentions that the child was born at 25 weeks at the Countess of Chester Hospital and seems to suggest that she was moved very soon after birth as the hospital didn't have the facilities required to look after her. I can't imagine she stayed more than a very short time at the CoC. The child apparently lived for three days.

It will be interesting to see what evidence they have to prove murder in this case (actually I think it's a different charge where the child is under one) as it seems highly unlikely, on the face of it, that anyone at Chester hospital could have influenced a death days later at a different location. The prosecution needs to prove intent to cause death or GBH, mere negligence or even recklessness is not enough. Unless LL went with the child to the other hospital and stayed there with it then I don't see what they could possibly have which proves murder. This sounds remarkably strange to me.

 

[Marantz4250b]

The child passed away at another hospital where LL didn’t work days later. The hospital where the child received most of their care wasn’t where LL worked.

I don’t know about what could be use as a poison that could kill you slowly but hopefully someone more knowledgable will come along soon.

I think that anyone at CoC being able to influence a death of a premature child at a distance and days later is bordering on the fantastical, quite frankly. I suppose that LL may have travelled with the child and stayed with it at the other hospital but it seems unlikely.

 

[Sarahlou]

Maybe I'm just being hopeful that they have a very strong case but I think the evidence will be quite surprising when we finally hear it.

 

[HollyHunter9]

I have to agree that as time has gone on and the more I think about it I too do not fully believe she is guilty. I don't think the police would purposely be setting her up but I do think there a culture within the NHS to cover things up. I have witnessed it first hand myself working in the NHS and there is also a bullying culture within the NHS but so mods don't remove my comment I am adding some links below regarding the NHS and cover ups.

The Neonatal department had already been downgraded due to poor care conditions, lack of staff etc. If all they have is circumstantial evidence I really think they will struggle to gain a conviction. MOO

NHS whistleblowers to speak of a culture of corruption, bullying and cover ups

HSJ reveal the cover-up culture of the NHS

The NHS : is there a culture of cover-up? - Clinical Negligence Team

 

[sleepyhead25]

Check your pms @Marantz4250b

 

[Marantz4250b]

Maybe I'm just being hopeful that they have a very strong case but I think the evidence will be quite surprising when we finally hear it.

I think I agree here but I just don't know. The issue that has just come up relating to the baby who died and who's parents set up the appeal seems to suggest that it is highly unlikely that anyone at CoC hospital could have had any influence on the death. If it happened as reported in the appeal then it just seems too unlikely to be true. How does someone at one hospital manage to influence the death of a premature baby three days later at an entirely different location? It seems to defy credibility.

 

[HollyHunter9]

Put it this way, i think it is much more likely for there to be some sort of NHS cover up rather than a serial killer nurse who has gone undetected for many years and no once noticed or picked up on it and not a single person is able to say a bad word about them including some of the victims families! The whole thing just doesn't quite add up. IMO

 

[sleepyhead25]

Let’s just remember that the case of the baby we know more of the circumstances surrounding is just one of the children that has allegedly been murdered - and I think it was unusual that the child got moved.

I think it was the case that she often wasn’t there / on duty at the time of death of a lot of the babies.

 

[sleepyhead25]

Agree whole heartedly @HollyHunter9 - until you know the depths of corruption within the NHS / LA’s / police departments etc etc it’s hard to comprehend that they could possibly set up a young woman with her life ahead of her as well as put the babies families through years of torture.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Put it this way, i think it is much more likely for there to be some sort of NHS cover up rather than a serial killer nurse who has gone undetected for many years and no once noticed or picked up on it and not a single person is able to say a bad word about them including some of the victims families! The whole thing just doesn't quite add up. IMO

I wholeheartedly agree! The fact that this whole issue seems to have originated from a damning report on the hospital, and this unit in particular, sets everything up wrong from the start to my mind.

 

[HollyHunter9]

Is there a trial date yet?

 

[Marantz4250b]

Agree whole heartedly @HollyHunter9 - until you know the depths of corruption within the NHS / LA’s / police departments etc etc it’s hard to comprehend that they could possibly set up a young woman with her life ahead of her as well as put the babies families through years of torture.

Again, I'd take issue with the whole "setting her up" suggestion. I don't believe that there has been an orchestrated plan to single her out and set her up or that evidence has been invented to convict her. I could easily believe that the NHS could simply turn a blind eye if the police set off down the wrong road or had misinterpreted evidence though. From what we know of her I would suspect that she is probably quite easily influenced and manipulated by stronger authority figures. Days of police interviews and being kept in a cell in between must have been absolutely crushing for her. We aren't talking about some career criminal or street who will happily accept what's coming to them to who is the type to simply tell the police to eff-off. If you have that type of person in your sights along with some form of evidence the temptation to stop looking for alternatives must be very great. Think of the police hunting Peter Sutcliffe when the fake tape from the guy in Sunderland arrived on their desk - they simply ignored all other avenues of investigation and stated unequivocally that he was their man!

 

[Marantz4250b]

Agree whole heartedly @HollyHunter9 - until you know the depths of corruption within the NHS / LA’s / police departments etc etc it’s hard to comprehend that they could possibly set up a young woman with her life ahead of her as well as put the babies families through years of torture.

Again, I'd take issue with the whole "setting her up" suggestion. I don't believe that there has been an orchestrated plan to single her out and set her up or that evidence has been invented to convict her. I could easily believe that the NHS could simply turn a blind eye if the police set off down the wrong road or had misinterpreted evidence though. From what we know of her I would suspect that she is probably quite easily influenced and manipulated by stronger authority figures. Days of police interviews and being kept in a cell in between must have been absolutely crushing for her. We aren't talking about some career criminal or street who will happily accept what's coming to them to who is the type to simply tell the police to eff-off. If you have that type of person in your sights along with some form of evidence the temptation to stop looking for alternatives must be very great. Think of the police hunting Peter Sutcliffe when the fake tape from the guy in Sunderland arrived on their desk - they simply ignored all other avenues of investigation and stated unequivocally that he was their man!

Is there a trial date yet?

Plea and case management on 19th Feb, I believe.

 

[HollyHunter9]

Agree whole heartedly @HollyHunter9 - until you know the depths of corruption within the NHS / LA’s / police departments etc etc it’s hard to comprehend that they could possibly set up a young woman with her life ahead of her as well as put the babies families through years of torture.

I just think a lot of people are quite reluctant to believe that corruption goes on within some of these organisations but unfortunately it does and it is much more common than people realise. I'm not bashing the NHS in any way, it does indeed provide a great service and saves lives but there is dark underbelly of it which a lot of senior management make great effort to cover up. Adding in another link to further support what I'm trying to say.

Why is there yet another cover-up scandal in NHS? EXPRESS COMMENT

 

[HollyHunter9]

Plea and case management on 19th Feb, I believe.[/QUOTE]

Thankyou, i knew it would be coming up I just couldn't remember when. It will be interesting to hear all the facts and evidence