GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #11

[Alyce]

Did anyone else notice this from The Times?

‘If one incident crystallises Stewart’s betrayal of his fiancée, it is the fact that she had intervened to stop him taking the sleeping drug that subsequently he would use in her murder. Ms Bailey asked Stewart to give up Zoplicone after discovering that it was not advised for sufferers of his muscular condition myasthenia gravis.’

ETA i.e. they've mistaken IS's testimony for the truth.

Good grief ! I mean I realise that most of the journos have not followed this case in the detail that we have on here, but that really is bad.... someone should tweet them

 

[Moll]

Good grief ! I mean I realise that most of the journos have not followed this case in the detail that we have on here, but that really is bad.... someone should tweet them

Terrible, isn't it, from the paper that runs the regular court reports...I'm not on Twitter, and not a regular Times subscriber - can anyone else tweet them? It's on page 7 of yesterday's paper in a box headed 'Devoted to the last, she even altered her will'.

ETA I can email them though.

 

[PrimeSuspect]

Plus the fact that he was a widower and that his original schmoozing of that community was online, not face to face.
The psychologist on C5 made an interesting comment on projection & the bond between widows/widowers - the perception that this is a unique bond that unites.
Ultimately he was a psycho con man above all else.
When you look at the MO's of career con men( women) the "setting- up" is the crucial stage.

I've been mystified like everyone about how the talented and attractive Helen Bailey could fall for the likes of IS, an incredibly unattractive, sad sack of a human being.

I found this site which describes how psychopaths successfully lure their victims, with mirroring.

A psychopath will mirror your identity at the beginning, middle and end of a relationship, only in different ways at each stage. Initially, in order to win you over, he will pretend to be like you and to like everything about you. Robert Hare and Paul Babiak describe in Snakes in Suits how during the “assessment phase” of the relationship a psychopath will convey to his target four main messages:

1) I like you; 2) I share your interests; 3) I’m like you, and 4) I’m the perfect partner or soul mate for you.
.......

Just as the idealized mirror image at the beginning of the psychopathic bond had little to do with your qualities–they were false compliments intended to lure you–so the de-idealized mirror image at the end has nothing to do with you either. These distorted mirroring effects have everything to do with the character deficiencies of the psychopath himself, who suffers from an incurable evil. Which, incidentally, is a good way to describe the middle mirroring phase as well: when he says you, or all human beings, are like him, remember that’s not true either. A psychopath is different from–and far worse than–just about any human being you will ever know.

https://psychopathyawareness.wordpress.com/2011/01/20/the-psychopaths-mirroring-effects/
Dangerous Liaisons: How to Identify and Escape from Psychopathic Seduction


PS Thank you to everyone for your pet pictures and your witty comments, they've been pleasurable reading within a thread that revealed bit by bit the deplorable actions of a psychopath. I recently watched The Widower, which pretty much sums up IS and his evil plans, minus the looks and charm of the real Malcolm Webster.
I'm so happy and relieved for the guilty verdict and that an investigation into Diane's death is opened up. I hope his life is a complete misery till his last breath.

 

[Tortoise]

I think IS made more of this than is actually true. He said that his mother had PND then OCD. I am not minimising these at all but she was a school teacher wasn't she? She obviously functioned at a high level academically and held down a respectable post. I don't think there was any need for IS to share this information in court, it was just another example of the blame game.

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I'd say it was more a sympathy-garnering game than anything, how he manipulates people. Although if you have construed that my post was about this, it wasn't.

My daughter was (and still is) jealous of her brother from the day he was born when she was 4. I don't blame my son.

IS' mother may have been absent during her depression, perhaps physically if she spent any time in hospital, but most definitely emotionally. His experience does not blame her. But in any case, my original post was not about her, it was about him.

None of us knows anything about his parents, beyond their careers, so we're not in a position to defend them or blame them.

 

[Alyce]

https://www.my5.tv/murdered-by-my-fiance/season-1/murdered-by-my-fiance


catch up link for anyone who missed it last night

there's a few minutes of adverts to watch before it starts

 

[cottonweaver]

Yes, lies to excuse himself and blame others for his shortcomings. I meant his Mother was a school teacher though. I an sure I have seen that somewhere.

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Just to confirm that IS told last week that his mother was a secretary. We don't know type of org she worked in

 

[cottonweaver]

Catching up with it all this morning ...nothing much there we didn't already know. I really liked the neighbours and it sounds like they were very friendly with Helen ....but not so much Ian.

snipped re C5 & the neighbours.
I got the impression that Mavis Drake was never taken in but IIRC from listening last night some of the others were coming to terms with the shock of having BEEN taken in by him . One of them said as much.

Imagine you had been consoling him and had dropped round some hot meals. It is absolutely no wonder some of those neighbours are now happy to speak to the press about him.
I appreciate there have been previous comments about people "selling out" to the press but I really don't feel that about many of the brave people who have since said - yes , I was taken in by him, he used me too.

I really "got" the lady ( sally?) who said she looks at the HLodge house from her window and just can't take it in.

they are still trying to process this too and def don't want any more "walls of silence" which, inadvertently and despite best intentions, assisted IS.

ETA . I must add that when I watched it last night I also felt there was no way that a woman of diverse interests and individuality, such as HB, would have been stimulated, long term in that very suburban community.

 

[Really?]

Morning team Helen and Boris......shame the boys didn't offer a bit more....or...are they still in shock?

Did you all notice how IS flicked his cone head hair up when arrested in the stairway.......we need a gif of that......tw@t.

 

[Tortoise]

I was just looking at this line in Helen's will

"I am expecting to marry IAN STEWART (Ian). My marriage to him does not revoke this will. This will is effective even if I die before marrying Ian."

Does anyone agree with me that this does not sound like something Helen would have written? She was so smart with words. Why would Helen think that dying would make her will ineffective?

I am wondering if he drafted it with her, and she never noticed the futility of that line? It's not something a solicitor would suggest I'm sure.

 

[Moll]

OK, here's my letter to The Times letters and also corrections editor:

"In yesterday’s report on the murder of Helen Bailey, your reporter says in the box headed ‘Devoted to the last , she even altered her will’
‘If one incident crystallises Stewart’s betrayal of his fiancée, it is the fact that she had intervened to stop him taking the sleeping drug that subsequently he would use in her murder. Ms Bailey asked Stewart to give up Zoplicone after discovering that it was not advised for sufferers of his muscular condition myasthenia gravis.’

This was Stewart’s testimony, but it was a lie designed to support his assertion that she took the Zoplicone herself. There was no evidence she had any idea he’d had a prescription for Zoplicone. It was entirely secret, that was the whole point.

I followed this case very closely, and consider that your account relies far too heavily on Stewart’s own testimony, which everyone now knows (if they didn’t before) was entirely unreliable."

ETA I'm afraid they won't think it matters, though - the caravan has moved on.

 

[Tortoise]

Very good Moll.

 

[LozDa]

Everyone who loves you misses you. Whatever has gone wrong, everything can be sorted. Please get in touch, to let us know you are safe.


Nope, not IS, this is a quote from one of Helen's Electra Brown books

This is just horrid! Was it purposeful?

I've said this way earlier in the threads, but it still bothers me. It's the thing that always rattled my cage from the very beginning; this bit of his released appeal to Helen when she was missing:

"I hope you hear this message and listen carefully"

Listen carefully? I've never, ever understood it in any natural sense of her being missing and it was the first time I was absolutely sure he had something to do with it.

Why would you ever say that to someone who is missing? Of course they would be listening carefully. It's so redundant, but also so aggressive.

Eurgh, every time I read it on an article, it grinds my gears.

 

[cottonweaver]

I was just looking at this line in Helen's will

"I am expecting to marry IAN STEWART (Ian). My marriage to him does not revoke this will. This will is effective even if I die before marrying Ian."

Does anyone agree with me that this does not sound like something Helen would have written? She was so smart with words. Why would Helen think that dying would make her will ineffective?

I am wondering if he drafted it with her, and she never noticed the futility of that line? It's not something a solicitor would suggest I'm sure.

This will is effective even if I die before marrying . yes I see what you're saying T.

Not very solicitor speak is it?
Not very HB in clumsy syntax either. ( we all have diff written styles for formal and informal contexts and I do think, had she been sat at her desk writing this, she would have rephrased that. )

somewhat unrelated
The point LRichards made about mutual discussion of wills and "what if" financial scenarios also reminded me of an earlier post about "mirror wills". It happened to someone I knew. We'll never get to hear what he told her about the will he would make in turn but in my experience it can be a convenient opener into suggesting an OH does x.y.z.

Also Richards reiterated a point also raised on WS - IS likely BS'ed about his relative poverty and that's why Timms spoke on the stand " of the IS accounts that we managed to find." The "play money" left over from his house sale etc.

( BTW LRichards also made some interesting analyses on the Pistorius case a few years back.)

 

[cottonweaver]

Morning team Helen and Boris......shame the boys didn't offer a bit more....or...are they still in shock?

Did you all notice how IS flicked his cone head hair up when arrested in the stairway.......we need a gif of that......tw@t.

All of that was an act IMO and was a bit disappointed by the "professionals " who have interpreted any of his reactions that morning as real shock.
I'm not saying he was expecting it that particular morning but reckon he had rehearsed for the possibility. He spent a lot of time thinking about himself being a suspect and phoning DC Lockwood from MIT from the get-go, trying to stay on top of where the investigation was headed next.

 

[LozDa]

I was just looking at this line in Helen's will

"I am expecting to marry IAN STEWART (Ian). My marriage to him does not revoke this will. This will is effective even if I die before marrying Ian."

Does anyone agree with me that this does not sound like something Helen would have written? She was so smart with words. Why would Helen think that dying would make her will ineffective?

I am wondering if he drafted it with her, and she never noticed the futility of that line? It's not something a solicitor would suggest I'm sure.

Wasn't that the will that he was witness to and not a beneficiary in?

 

[Tortoise]

This will is effective even if I die before marrying . yes I see what you're saying T.

Not very solicitor speak is it?
Not very HB in clumsy syntax either. ( we all have diff written styles for formal and informal contexts and I do think, had she been sat at her desk writing this, she would have rephrased that. )

somewhat unrelated
The point LRichards made about mutual discussion about wills and "what if" financial scenarios also reminded me of an earlier post about "mirror wills". I happened to someone I knew. We'll never get to hear what he told her about the will he would make in turn but in my experience it can a convenient opener into suggesting an OH does x.y.z.

Also Richards reiterated a point also raised on WS - IS likely BS'ed about his relative poverty and that's why Timms said on the stand " of the IS accounts that we managed to find." The "play money" left over from his house sale etc.

( BTW LRichards also made some interesting analyses on the Pistorius case a few years back.)

Yes, I was thinking about it in terms of it being totally unnecessary. You can will money to anyone regardless of whether you plan to marry or not and it just seemed like an insurance if he wrote it.

Laura Richards..hmm, I'm not a fan, since the JonBenet special she was involved in. I'm not discounting everything she says, she has a lot of experience, but she definitely gets things wrong. If I was her I'd spend more time before going out on the airwaves in a rush production, to protect my integrity. A lot of what she said was quite broad-brush.

 

[Tortoise]

Wasn't that the will that he was witness to and not a beneficiary in?

No it was her later will.

 

[Alyce]

Morning team Helen and Boris......shame the boys didn't offer a bit more....or...are they still in shock?

Did you all notice how IS flicked his cone head hair up when arrested in the stairway.......we need a gif of that......tw@t.

Lol someone will sort that out I'm sure

And, that just reminded me - he pulls up the blind on the window on his way down the stairs.
Interesting action for someone who has just been told the police are waiting for him, at 7am. Surely he didn't think they had turned up just for a chat at that time of the day ? So was he trying to be super cool and calm or was he checking outside to see how many police cars there were.

 

[LozDa]

No it was her later will.

OH MY! I've had my wills confused all this time! That is definitely a very odd clause and I thought it odd initially, but believing it was the initial will, I thought it was just a clumsy way of Helen protecting herself whilst single.

I definitely think that clause was to do with him then. FOR SURE.

Thanks for clearing that up, Torty

 

[Alyce]

I was just looking at this line in Helen's will

"I am expecting to marry IAN STEWART (Ian). My marriage to him does not revoke this will. This will is effective even if I die before marrying Ian."

Does anyone agree with me that this does not sound like something Helen would have written? She was so smart with words. Why would Helen think that dying would make her will ineffective?

I am wondering if he drafted it with her, and she never noticed the futility of that line? It's not something a solicitor would suggest I'm sure.

Oh that is odd.
I have seen this revoke clause in Wills before, but usually it just confirms that an imminent or future marriage - to a named person -will not change the status of the Will.


eta I have just checked with my Will expert and he tells me he has never, ever seen anyone write that extra line in the Will - and he's seen quite a few.
The usual line is simply in contemplation of marriage, which Helen has written as I am expecting to marry.

Of course a solicitor will go along with whatever a person wishes to write into the Will ( within reason ) but I would bet good money on that line being something IS persuaded her to add...poor, little impoverished IS, worried about his future.