GUILTY UK - Helen Bailey, 51, Royston, 11 April 2016 #2

[MillyM]

Have the police corroborated the statements of both sons as to their whereabouts on April 11, and these stand up?

 

[pinklilies]

12:43
Stewart asked officer: 'Have you found her?'

Pc Hancock adds: “I was in that vehicle. The entire journey from Royston to Stevenage police station, I kept my camera running in the car.

“Although Stewart had identified some medication when he was still in his bedroom that he would like to take with him, he realised on the journey that he’d left his inhaler and some other medication behind.

“We went back to the house and I told two officers at the house to pack up his medication and have it ready to hand.

“While we were in that vehicle, Stewart said words to the effect of ‘have you found her?’

“He was told that as he was under arrest, the investigation couldn’t be discussed with him until he was formally interviewed later on.

“We arrived at the police station at 8am. Stewart was taken to see the custody sergeant.

“At 9.06am I turned off my bodyworn camera.”

Duel purpose in returning to the house to get other medication. He would be able to see where the police were focussed.

 

[BatFace]

So where or from what device was the other attempt made from?

ETA Sorry, I seem to have skipped a page!

 

[Cherwell]

So where or from what device was the other attempt made from?

Weren't there also said to be three attempts, the third being successful?

This is such a sensational case, I am sure the full story will eventually be told.

 

[snoopydog]

Ah I wonder if that was how the duvet got soiled? Helen and Boris didn't have any injuries that would have soiled a duvet so maybe Boris attacked IS,as IS was suffocating Helen, and IS bled onto the duvet. The dog bites may have been in a place he could cover.

I have no doubt the duvet was ONLY soiled with whatever happened with Boris and Helen, I lived with someone who had a full laparotomy and major bowel surgery and there were NO soilings at any point. If IS had a colostomy bag then it would be very probable but there's no evidence that says he had anything of the sorts...

 

[Florrie]

I've been out all morning and just caught up. My goodness what a lot of informative stuff said by IS.

I think my "OMG" moment was when he said to police "if she comes back I don't think I want to be with her anymore".

I reserved judgement abut that scenario last week when some of the more experienced posters here suggested that maybe IS didn't want to be with Helen anymore. That he equally did not want to lose the nice life he had with her. My word though, that evidence this morning shows how right you all were about him.

I am glad also that we will hear more from the cesspit people as I got the distinct impression that the crust was thick and they had to break through it which doesn't tally with the "thick sludge" that those who know about cesspits here have described.






Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[maud]

Thank you, everyone, for the warm welcome to the board following my first post last night. It is a pleasure to be part of such a considered and well informed discussion.

I noticed that the possible impact of Helen's menopause on her health and behaviour has been touched upon in the course of this thread, and as someone who has recently been through this transition (mops brow and fans herself with a folded Woman's Weekly) I have a couple of observations to make.

Firstly, the symptoms of menopause vary widely from woman to woman - some, like me, suffer terribly from hot flushes, whilst others would say that menstrual problems, headaches or insomnia dominate their experience. Menopause can also cause issues with concentration, energy, and mood - these are generally quite mild, but most women suffer these symptoms at some point. Memory loss is frequently remarked upon, but tends to be at the "where did I leave my keys?" end of the scale, rather than "where did I leave my beloved dog, on the beach?"

The point I'm making is that in our culture at least - rightly or wrongly - menopausal women do not expect to feel 100% well. Some women simply soldier on, hoping that the symptoms will pass - and they eventually do. Others, after months or even a couple of years of struggling, are driven to visit their GP and discuss HRT or a similar remedy. There is also a middle way, where women do their own research (usually on the internet) and go on to purchase and use natural remedies based on herbs, vitamins etc.

It would seem, from comments made by IS, that Helen was a fan of natural remedies generally, and this makes it likely that she tried some over the counter remedies for any menopausal symptoms she was experiencing, including any increased anxiety or shift in mood. Helen seems to have been susceptible to stress, and menopause is known for both raising anxiety and deepening any tendency to depression.

This could have had an interesting, double bearing on her unwitting ingestion of zopliclone. Firstly, in the early stages of being apparently fed the drug by IS , she might have blamed any forgetfulness, tiredness etc on the menopause. The menopause could also have been blamed for any mood swings, dizziness, and the changes in blood pressure which had worried her. Secondly, her known preference for herbal remedies and "vitamins" may well have led her to the two remedies most commonly recommended for menopausal symptoms - Black Cohosh and St John's Wort.

Black cohosh is widely promoted as a catch-all treatment for all menopausal symptoms, but it is quite a strong "drug" and suspected of causing liver damage in long term use. However, it is easily available over the counter or the internet. St John's Wort has been well known as a natural anti-depressant for a long time, but it is becoming prescription-only in some some European countries, as it is quite powerful and can have some strong side-effects. In menopause it is mainly recommended for hot flushes and mood swings.

These are interesting supplements to consider with regard to Helen's demise, as each has a known, but contrasting, interaction with zopiclone, as follows:

St John's Wort REDUCES the effect of zopiclone, meaning that higher doses are necessary to obtain the desired effect.

Black Cohosh can interact with zopiclone to cause disorientation, confusion, and problems with cognition - actually enhancing it's more negative side effects.

If IS was feeding her the pills, and Helen was taking either or possibly even both of these (very commonly used) over the counter remedies for her menopausal symptoms, he would have found it impossible to administer a calculated or steady dose. She in her turn might have experimented with quantities or types of supplement, especially once her tiredness and forgetfulness began to cause her such distress.

It is also worth noting that zopiclone carries a definite contraindication to alcohol - it can increase all side-effects, most notably a deep sleep from which the patient cannot be aroused, and sleepwalking with memory loss afterwards.

I did notice that an off-licence proprietor in Broadstairs spoke of Helen as being a customer, and said that she was a "lovely lady". Helen mentions drinking red wine in Planet Grief. There is absolutely no suggestion, anywhere that she was a heavy or even a habitual drinker, but if she enjoyed a glass of wine once or twice a week - with food or just whilst relaxing - it would once again have complicated and indeed intensified the effect of zoplicone on her system.

Zopiclone and alcohol and/or black cohosh and alcohol could also have interfered with her ability to drive, causing the distress and anxiety around driving that seems to have been a new feature of her life in Royston. (She seems to have been a fairly happy driver in London).

I have hiccuppy internet today, and am struggling to paste links into this post, however I am happy to add them in a separate post if other websleuthers are interested in reading them.

 

[badhorsie]

Just jumping in here to say thanks to all who are contributing to the court updates, Twitter, court attendees etc. Dreadful, dreadful carryings on, poor Helen and poor Boris. I am hoping that justice will prevail and that sentencing will befit this despicable crime

 

[ColourPurple]

11:29
Further calls with Stewart

“I came back to work on May 13.

“He called me on that day, he said he was now back in Hertfordshire, he said he came very close to killing himself while he was there but his father had been very supportive and he was now back tidying up personal affairs - he said he was feeling better in himself.

“He was feeling confused and unable to make decisions. He told me he had declined a police interview because he thought it would be too stressful.

“He asked if he could provide my contact details to the police.

“He said he wasn’t sleeping well and was having thoughts of self harm.” On June 3 Sarah said she had some missed calls but then spoke to Stewart again.

“On this occasion he told me he had pre-existing flights booked to fly to Palma, Spain on June 12. He asked if I thought he should go, but I felt that wasn’t my decision to make.

“He sounded more jovial on this day than previously. He was asking if he could still call me for support, and I said yes.

“My last contact with him was on July 4 - I had a message to call him. He’d been asked to get in touch when he came back off holiday and so he did.

“He said he’d been on holiday, he said it felt strangely difficult but it was OK.

“He then said he didn’t feel there was now any ongoing role for us, and he was happy to be discharged. “I haven’t had any dealings with him since then.”

BIB
in looks like he was hoping to use this mental health issue as a reason to get out of being interviewed, I wonder if that was a running theme in his life.. using his health issues to avoid doing things?

Also wonder if he thought he was home and dry and that police no longer suspected him on July 4th when he was happy to be discharged.

Another thought I had was that with his former wife being cremated, there is no body to exhume if police did decide to investigate her death.

 

[snoopydog]

It's in her book and not on the blog as far as I can see, a chapter called "Puppy Love".

Another rather telling story is the one where JS buys the Highgate house, which Helen didn't like at all, without telling her.

I don't think we should be discussing Helen's marriage to JS, It is inappropriate and unrelated to this case. He was not on trial for murder and his family could read any of this.

The JS relationship was Helen's story, this is nothing to do with us and has no bearing on her relationship with IS.

 

[perfectvirgo]

I've been out all morning and just caught up. My goodness what a lot of informative stuff said by IS.

I think my "OMG" moment was when he said to police "if she comes back I don't think I want to be with her anymore".

I reserved judgement abut that scenario last week when some of the more experienced posters here suggested that maybe IS didn't want to be with Helen anymore. That he equally did not want to lose the nice life he had with her.

Respectfully snipped.

BIB
If Helen had genuinely walked out this might be a natural reaction (and perhaps that's what IS was acting out) but as the Police clearly didn't believe the 'disappearance' scenario, his statement of intent can be applied both before and after her vanishing thereby strengthening suspicion of murder.

 

[Squamous]

I don't think we should be discussing Helen's marriage to JS, It is inappropriate and unrelated to this case. He was not on trial for murder and his family could read any of this.

The JS relationship was Helen's story, this is nothing to do with us and has no bearing on her relationship with IS.

I see your point but equally his family have presumably read her book and are aware of everything in it. I do think a big part of this case is "how did he fool everyone?" and I don't think it's unreasonable to speculate a little on how an incisive and discerning woman was so taken in by him.

I do feel terribly for IS's son Jamie - was he the one who has been visiting him or the other one? What a nightmare to open the door to police coming to arrest your dad for a domestic murder.

Was IS bailed after his initial arrest? I suppose that will be covered this afternoon.

 

[snoopydog]

yes IDK what to make of not scattering ashes but planning a wedding. ( No experience of cremation in my family, presume it's complex and so I couldn't really make an inference from that)


Todays evidence: finally some clarity on the system at Hartwell Lodge? Hope so.

The ashes being in the garage is irrelevant. it's a completely separate issue she would have dealt with when she was ready to.

 

[cottonweaver]

Oliver has been visiting, the older son AFAIK

 

[cottonweaver]

The ashes being in the garage is irrelevant. it's a completely separate issue she would have dealt with when she was ready to.

At websleuths , pretty much everything is relevant. Neither do any of us know why she would have kept ashes in a garage.

 

[ColourPurple]

I don't think we should be discussing Helen's marriage to JS, It is inappropriate and unrelated to this case. He was not on trial for murder and his family could read any of this.

The JS relationship was Helen's story, this is nothing to do with us and has no bearing on her relationship with IS.

Hmm it's a tricky one. Although it's not something I've really discussed, not having read the book... I do think it may have some relevance to the case in so much as it gives some background to Helen, her thoughts, experiences and relationships and may have influenced her future choice of partner etc and as Helen published her book, it's all in the public domain which would normally mean it's OK to discuss it.

 

[ColourPurple]

At websleuths , pretty much everything is relevant. Neither do any of us know why she would have kept ashes in a garage.

And for all we know, maybe she didn't keep them there. Maybe IS put them there after the event.

 

[snoopydog]

[video=twitter;824208487995609088]https://twitter.com/ChloeKeedyITV/status/824208487995609088[/video]


and


Jury told that Stewart told nurse he had been low, sitting at home alone + wanting to end his life

Hmm, so she's been MISSING for 10 days and he wants to kill himself? Having also previously lost a partner, if this happened to me, and I loved the person, I'd be wanting to stay alive for them being found or if they turned up.

A more believable story would be that she's missing and he can't cope and needs some valium or something to help him manage. This man is so full of s@&t!!! He's been too extreme with his reaction here and it just doesn't ring believable whatsoever.

 

[Alyce]

BIB
in looks like he was hoping to use this mental health issue as a reason to get out of being interviewed, I wonder if that was a running theme in his life.. using his health issues to avoid doing things?

Also wonder if he thought he was home and dry and that police no longer suspected him on July 4th when he was happy to be discharged.

Another thought I had was that with his former wife being cremated, there is no body to exhume if police did decide to investigate her death.

Ha ha, was my thought too re wanting to pass on the contact details. He wanted his sick note !! to save him from any further questions

 

[Alyce]

Hmm, so she's been MISSING for 10 days and he wants to kill himself? Having also previously lost a partner, if this happened to me, and I loved the person, I'd be wanting to stay alive for them being found or if they turned up.

A more believable story would be that she's missing and he can't cope and needs some valium or something to help him manage. This man is so full of s@&t!!! He's been too extreme with his reaction here and it just doesn't ring believable whatsoever.

and actually, on May 6, Helen had been * missing * for 25 days - wonder why he thought it was only 10 ?